These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Missions & Complexes

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

post-Odyssey L4 cruise CNR - what rigs?
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Radiant Infinity
Doomheim
#1 - 2013-06-16 15:27:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Radiant Infinity
Assuming:

T2 cruises
2 TPs
perfect missile support skills
Caldari BS V


2 Rigor 1 Flare? 2 Flare 1 Rigor? 3 Flares?

Thanks!
stoicfaux
#2 - 2013-06-16 16:11:41 UTC
2 rigor, 1 flare.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Radiant Infinity
Doomheim
#3 - 2013-06-16 16:22:24 UTC
Thanks, stoicfaux, for the reply.

I'm curious: with the CNR's bonus to explosion radius and the 2 painters in the mids why would it not be better to mitigate some faster targets' speed by using 2 Flares and 1 Rigor? Considering I have Caldari BS V which I guess I should have mentioned in the OP.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#4 - 2013-06-16 17:54:43 UTC
missile damage formula includes explosion radius and explosion velocity in the same bit, so it seems to be easier to get explosion radius down, and/or it helps against a wider array of targets. http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Missile_Damage you can see the formula there and make a spreadsheet if you like, I keep meaning to do it but never get around to it.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Gimme more Cynos
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#5 - 2013-06-16 22:20:06 UTC
Radiant Infinity wrote:
Thanks, stoicfaux, for the reply.

I'm curious: with the CNR's bonus to explosion radius and the 2 painters in the mids why would it not be better to mitigate some faster targets' speed by using 2 Flares and 1 Rigor? Considering I have Caldari BS V which I guess I should have mentioned in the OP.


The thing is, there is a hardcap on EV - if you match the speed, you won't get any additional benefit out of additional EV. ER works different. If the signature is big enough, you can apply full damage to even the fastest targets. I haven't really done the math on why the third rig should be the flare, and not another rigor, as stoicfaux did that, and I trust his math.

The math is strong with him.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2013-06-16 23:24:36 UTC
ER has a hardcap too, if each of the factors (EV, ER) are above 1 then 1 is used in the missile formula.

When deciding between rigors and flares you have to think about what you are shooting: do they orbit fast or are they small? If they do both then i think 2 rigors and a flare are a good balance for all situations.

Art of Explosions
Radiant Infinity
Doomheim
#7 - 2013-06-17 01:47:42 UTC
Thanks everyone!
stoicfaux
#8 - 2013-06-17 04:22:02 UTC
Radiant Infinity wrote:
Thanks, stoicfaux, for the reply.

I'm curious: with the CNR's bonus to explosion radius and the 2 painters in the mids why would it not be better to mitigate some faster targets' speed by using 2 Flares and 1 Rigor? Considering I have Caldari BS V which I guess I should have mentioned in the OP.

I re-ran the numbers with NPC max speed (which is normally just 2x obit speed.) There was no differences in the number of volleys to kill in my sample set of NPCs (except for elite angle frigates.) In terms of applied damage, 3xRigors performed 0.5-2 percentage points worse than 2xRigor+1xFlare. 1xRigor+2xFlare was 2-5 percentage points worse than 2xRigor+1xFlare.

Plus, when NPCs are going at max speed, they suffer from sig bloom via the pseudo-MWDs, and the increased sig radius tends to offset any speed advantage. The only time NPC speed is an issue in my experience, is when frigates turn off their MWDs and are coasting in at high speed (and you're in a Tengu.)

2xRigor+1xFlare is best, 3xRigors is just as good for all practical purposes, and having 2+ Flare rigs isn't worth it for PvE (but isn't terrible either.)

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Lugalzagezi666
#9 - 2013-06-17 07:40:58 UTC
Standard mission npcs suffer big signature malus from using mwd and get only 100% speed bonus.

If you hit them when they are pulsing mwd, you are actually getting much better damage projection than normal. You can even 1 volley elite frigs with cruises when you hit them in the right time (it isnt easy as you have to have painters and launchers ready and you have to count with delayed damage).

But if you hit npc when it just turned of its mwd and is slowly decelerating, you will project much less damage than you normally do. Angel battleships are very annoying because of this - they are fast by default and since they are almost never in range they just pulse their mwds now and then and if you dont time your volleys properly, you will lose alot of your damage to their speed/sig mitigation.

Even if you use 2x t2 rigor golem with 3 domination target painters...
Radiant Infinity
Doomheim
#10 - 2013-06-17 14:07:07 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
Radiant Infinity wrote:
Thanks, stoicfaux, for the reply.

I'm curious: with the CNR's bonus to explosion radius and the 2 painters in the mids why would it not be better to mitigate some faster targets' speed by using 2 Flares and 1 Rigor? Considering I have Caldari BS V which I guess I should have mentioned in the OP.

I re-ran the numbers with NPC max speed (which is normally just 2x obit speed.) There was no differences in the number of volleys to kill in my sample set of NPCs (except for elite angle frigates.) In terms of applied damage, 3xRigors performed 0.5-2 percentage points worse than 2xRigor+1xFlare. 1xRigor+2xFlare was 2-5 percentage points worse than 2xRigor+1xFlare.

Plus, when NPCs are going at max speed, they suffer from sig bloom via the pseudo-MWDs, and the increased sig radius tends to offset any speed advantage. The only time NPC speed is an issue in my experience, is when frigates turn off their MWDs and are coasting in at high speed (and you're in a Tengu.)

2xRigor+1xFlare is best, 3xRigors is just as good for all practical purposes, and having 2+ Flare rigs isn't worth it for PvE (but isn't terrible either.)

Thanks again!