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L4 Battleships for Low-Med SP
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Rain6638
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#41 - 2013-06-11 05:38:37 UTC
ofc damage types. I would kinda recommend a raven.

My Raven was equipped with the following:

HIGH
06 x Cruise Missile Launcher I
01 x SMALL TRACTOR BEAM 1
01 x SALVAGER I

MEDIUM
04 x LARGE SHIELD EXTENDERS
01 x ‘HYPHNOS’ ECM
01 x MEDIUM SHIELD BOOSTER

LOW
01 x EMERGENCY DAMAGE CONTROL
01 x ARMOR KINETIC HARDENER I
01 x ARMOR THREMIC HARDENER I
02 x WARP CORE STABILIZER I

DRONES
02 x WARRIOR I DRONES
03 x HAMMERHEAD I DRONES

UPGRADES
01 x ROCKET FUEL CACHE PARTINTION I
01 x BAY LOADING ACCELERATOR I

also: you think I won't!

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Sanadras Riahn
Turbo Nuclear Pirate Punch
#42 - 2013-06-11 08:17:57 UTC
Rain6638 wrote:


also: you think I won't!


It's.... it's glorious!

Too bad I don't have Caldari Frig 5; that looks like it'd be a lot of fun just for the sake of it.

Tradition defines and shapes a person, but should be evaluated frequently; far too often does Tradition no longer help, but hobble a person and stunt their growth. Especially a Capsuleer.
Rain6638
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#43 - 2013-06-11 12:37:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Rain6638
thank you, that means a lot to me. it's very afk, and therapeutic. rather limited in damage type with blasters but it's a fun gimmick and a nice break from the battleship F1 game :-)

tbh i still need to shore up Assault Frig V on the first two chars, and small blaster spec (at III)

//*side note: "don't fly what you can't afford to lose" pretty much means assault frigs LolLol

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Xeris 7
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#44 - 2013-06-11 15:02:53 UTC
Rain6638 wrote:
ofc damage types. I would kinda recommend a raven.

My Raven was equipped with the following:

HIGH
06 x Cruise Missile Launcher I
01 x SMALL TRACTOR BEAM 1
01 x SALVAGER I

MEDIUM
04 x LARGE SHIELD EXTENDERS
01 x ‘HYPHNOS’ ECM
01 x MEDIUM SHIELD BOOSTER

LOW
01 x EMERGENCY DAMAGE CONTROL
01 x ARMOR KINETIC HARDENER I
01 x ARMOR THREMIC HARDENER I
02 x WARP CORE STABILIZER I

DRONES
02 x WARRIOR I DRONES
03 x HAMMERHEAD I DRONES

UPGRADES
01 x ROCKET FUEL CACHE PARTINTION I
01 x BAY LOADING ACCELERATOR I

also: you think I won't!


Ya, this belongs in a thread about DPS and Alpha damage. lol.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2013-06-11 15:08:30 UTC
good thing this isnt a thread about DPS and alpha damage

Art of Explosions
Rain6638
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#46 - 2013-06-11 15:46:39 UTC
did this up for another thread. bottom config was OP's.

1) Ease of use: move from T1 to T2
2) Speed of mission completion: fair, the trick is applying damage to smaller targets. also more damage type versatility
3) Ease of Upgrade: easy button
4) Ability to transfer into Incursions: if you go with a nightmare, it's directly in line with a nightmare (Caldari BS)
5) Cost (since these should be lower skilled) cheap

OP where's the caldari love?

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Sanadras Riahn
Turbo Nuclear Pirate Punch
#47 - 2013-06-11 21:13:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Sanadras Riahn
Rain6638 wrote:
did this up for another thread. bottom config was OP's.

1) Ease of use: move from T1 to T2
2) Speed of mission completion: fair, the trick is applying damage to smaller targets. also more damage type versatility
3) Ease of Upgrade: easy button
4) Ability to transfer into Incursions: if you go with a nightmare, it's directly in line with a nightmare (Caldari BS)
5) Cost (since these should be lower skilled) cheap

OP where's the caldari love?


I'll admit I'm guilty as charged. The reason why I hadn't posted a Raven fit is because almost all of my weaponry SPs are invested into gunnery (and my BS skills in everything but Caldari), which left the Raven anemic on the damage at best. Both the Raven and the Typhoon are battleships that interest me greatly, but there's a lot I need to put into them to make them comparable to most of the fits listed in the OP.

How bad this is was made apparent when looking at L3 ships and my Drake fit was doing half as much DPS as my Harbinger.

EDIT: Did some quick comparisons, just for number demonstration purposes.

With the top fit you posted in your imgur link, my numbers are showing 870 DPS(!!) Tank against Serpentis, Cap stable at 74%, and does 464 DPS with Hammerhead IIs. (I had to drop the launchers to Meta 4s, but dropped the CCC I for another Rigor Catalyst). My Megathron fit with my skills does 578 with drones, and tanks 667 DPS against Serpentis. So it's not too big of a difference, when I look at it. It would simply take some training and investing time into Missile support skills and Caldari Battleship to get the most out of the hull.

EDIT 2: Confirmed, with the relevant skills to 4 and the same implants that I have in Hybrids for Missiles, she's putting out 534.

Tradition defines and shapes a person, but should be evaluated frequently; far too often does Tradition no longer help, but hobble a person and stunt their growth. Especially a Capsuleer.
Chamiidra
Ratting FTW
#48 - 2013-06-11 23:24:56 UTC
Low skill BS for missions? Look no further than the space potato. The swiss army knife BS in eve. You can do almost all PVE content in one, and it can be servicible for PVP in certain situations. Train up to t2 sentries and you'll be afk'ing in lvl 4s no problem.
Caius Sivaris
Dark Nexxus
#49 - 2013-06-11 23:45:56 UTC
Sanadras Riahn wrote:
I accidentally posted this in the wrong forum. Had too many tabs open...

So, now that the T1 Battleships have all been jumbled around, I'm trying to get back into what would be best for L4s as a Low-Med SP Mission Runner. A lot of the old fits are now outdated due to the T1 ship changes; I've, therefore, been coming up with some fit ideas, and wanted some feedback on what you think would be best.

Some things to consider for the Mission runner when grading these fits:

1) Ease of use
2) Speed of mission completion
3) Ease of Upgrade
4) Ability to transfer into Incursions
5) Cost (since these should be lower skilled)

And now, the ships:

*** NOTE: I seem to have left off the Drones; just assume 5 Hob Iis and 5 Hammie IIs ***

[Maelstrom, Ody PvE]

8x 1200mm Heavy 'Scout' Artillery I (EMP L)

Tracking Computer II
2x Kinetic Deflection Field II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
X-Large Shield Booster II
Heavy Capacitor Booster II (Cap Booster 800)

4x Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Large Projectile Collision Accelerator I
Large Core Defense Capacitor Safeguard I



The stacking penalty would like a word with you after class.
Sanadras Riahn
Turbo Nuclear Pirate Punch
#50 - 2013-06-11 23:56:07 UTC
Caius Sivaris wrote:


The stacking penalty would like a word with you after class.


All right, then help me understand.

I understand that there is a stacking penalty, but does it actually hurt to have 4 Gyrostabs, or does the benefit of the fourth just drop of to near nothing once you've already got 3 on? I know I've seen a lot of builds that do 3 faction and 1 Tech 2 to avoid that stacking penalty.

Would another tracking enhancer better serve the build?

Tradition defines and shapes a person, but should be evaluated frequently; far too often does Tradition no longer help, but hobble a person and stunt their growth. Especially a Capsuleer.
Aplier Shivra
#51 - 2013-06-12 00:25:52 UTC
Sanadras Riahn wrote:
Caius Sivaris wrote:


The stacking penalty would like a word with you after class.


All right, then help me understand.

I understand that there is a stacking penalty, but does it actually hurt to have 4 Gyrostabs, or does the benefit of the fourth just drop of to near nothing once you've already got 3 on? I know I've seen a lot of builds that do 3 faction and 1 Tech 2 to avoid that stacking penalty.

Would another tracking enhancer better serve the build?



My numbers might be off by a few %, but:
First module is 100% effectiveness
2nd is 87%
3rd is 57%
4th is 27%
5th is 10%

Your 4th gyrostab is already almost useless, and at that point a TE would probably be more dps because it would allow you to apply better. However, it's that rig that's really useless. It's operating at 10% of its normaly efficiency, meaning it only gives an actual 1% more dps, for 200 calibration.
Sanadras Riahn
Turbo Nuclear Pirate Punch
#52 - 2013-06-12 01:00:50 UTC
Aplier Shivra wrote:
Sanadras Riahn wrote:
Caius Sivaris wrote:


The stacking penalty would like a word with you after class.


All right, then help me understand.

I understand that there is a stacking penalty, but does it actually hurt to have 4 Gyrostabs, or does the benefit of the fourth just drop of to near nothing once you've already got 3 on? I know I've seen a lot of builds that do 3 faction and 1 Tech 2 to avoid that stacking penalty.

Would another tracking enhancer better serve the build?



My numbers might be off by a few %, but:
First module is 100% effectiveness
2nd is 87%
3rd is 57%
4th is 27%
5th is 10%

Your 4th gyrostab is already almost useless, and at that point a TE would probably be more dps because it would allow you to apply better. However, it's that rig that's really useless. It's operating at 10% of its normaly efficiency, meaning it only gives an actual 1% more dps, for 200 calibration.


I actually didn't know the Rig was the problem! That's good to know, and a bit embarassing.

Since the Gyrostab provides both a Rate of Fire bonus and a Damage modifier, would an Ambit extension be better served for a Projectile Rig?

Tradition defines and shapes a person, but should be evaluated frequently; far too often does Tradition no longer help, but hobble a person and stunt their growth. Especially a Capsuleer.
Aplier Shivra
#53 - 2013-06-12 01:20:53 UTC
I don't really know projectile platforms well enough to comment on absolute best fit options, but I know that going 5 deep into stacking penalties is never worth it. For more dps, you could probably put on a powergrid rig and go for 1400's instead of 1200's.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#54 - 2013-06-12 03:07:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Rain6637
I don't fault you for avoiding missiles and shields, which = Caldari for the most part.

Caldari has that stigma for being generally not-the-best for PVP, due to not-armor and not-instant damage. BUT for L4 missions, if you're serious about it, I would say torp raven with a shameless Co-processor--1200 DPS from T2 torps for a poor man's Golem--except it has as much DPS so it's pretty much a golem without the TP or boost bonus. and who cares about the tractor beam bonus--for the price, it's a crock.

moreover, the low transfer value of missile skills to anything other than a L4 raven or Golem, makes it a smarter idea to stick with the gunnery platforms.

so really, I was just teasing. although if you're getting into incursions Nightmares are great, but so are megathron variations.

I was born Caldari and I revel in L4 missions, but my advice to anyone else is Armor + Gunnery.

also: I still use this because I'm lazy. http://i.imgur.com/d8vNN8g.jpg <--stack 2/1 passive resists according to damage type. usually good for high 80s resist, saves cap, blah

//Malcanis endorses Navy Ravens for missions ("available in the Citadel Emporium" Lol)

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
I Accidentally YourShip
Ronin ONE
Ronin Reloaded
#55 - 2013-06-16 01:24:28 UTC  |  Edited by: I Accidentally YourShip
Aplier Shivra wrote:
Sanadras Riahn wrote:
Caius Sivaris wrote:


The stacking penalty would like a word with you after class.


All right, then help me understand.

I understand that there is a stacking penalty, but does it actually hurt to have 4 Gyrostabs, or does the benefit of the fourth just drop of to near nothing once you've already got 3 on? I know I've seen a lot of builds that do 3 faction and 1 Tech 2 to avoid that stacking penalty.

Would another tracking enhancer better serve the build?



My numbers might be off by a few %, but:
First module is 100% effectiveness
2nd is 87%
3rd is 57%
4th is 27%
5th is 10%

Your 4th gyrostab is already almost useless, and at that point a TE would probably be more dps because it would allow you to apply better. However, it's that rig that's really useless. It's operating at 10% of its normaly efficiency, meaning it only gives an actual 1% more dps, for 200 calibration.


A 4th gyrostab is not useless, dps is dps. However in this case it might be better to drop the fourth for TE. That rig should be replaced by a T2 burst aerator for extra fun. The biggest boost is applied first, a T2 burst aerator would be at 100%, and then the gyros would suffer the stacking penalties, which is why 4 faction gyro T2 burst aerator on a Machariel is useful and acceptable.

Before you make statements about tracking you should probably run the fits in EFT first. Tracking is not something that is intuitive based on the numbers you get from it, running eft dps graphs with different typical ship sizes helps put it into perspective. In this case it is probably better to have the second TE even if the TC is scripted for tracking, but it isn't always the case to sacrifice a 4th damage mod for tracking especially for weapon systems that already have good tracking. Machariel is obviously one example where 4 damage mods is the only way to go, anything else is efficiency loss.
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#56 - 2013-06-16 01:46:45 UTC
how low SP is low ??

Dominix is probably by far the most forgiving and low-sp pilot friendly battleship in the game.

You can skill into a fully T1 fitted one in a surprisingly short amount of time (and low SP total)


I don't recommend you do it though
missions take forever to complete
your DPS and Tank are also anaemic

it will work much better if you spend a little time honing the tanking & drone and gunnery skills
then upgrade to the Fed Navy version
I Accidentally YourShip
Ronin ONE
Ronin Reloaded
#57 - 2013-06-16 02:12:17 UTC  |  Edited by: I Accidentally YourShip
Kitty Bear wrote:
how low SP is low ??

Dominix is probably by far the most forgiving and low-sp pilot friendly battleship in the game.

You can skill into a fully T1 fitted one in a surprisingly short amount of time (and low SP total)


I don't recommend you do it though
missions take forever to complete
your DPS and Tank are also anaemic

it will work much better if you spend a little time honing the tanking & drone and gunnery skills
then upgrade to the Fed Navy version


[Dominix, Low SP]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Large Armor Repairer II
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II

Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Omnidirectional Tracking Link I
Omnidirectional Tracking Link I
Omnidirectional Tracking Link I
Experimental 100MN Afterburner I

350mm Compressed Coil Gun I, Lead Charge L
350mm Compressed Coil Gun I, Lead Charge L
350mm Compressed Coil Gun I, Lead Charge L
350mm Compressed Coil Gun I, Lead Charge L
350mm Compressed Coil Gun I, Lead Charge L
Drone Link Augmentor I

Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I


Garde I x5

Requires Mechanic V, Drones V and Hull Upgrades V, otherwise no other V skills required ("low SP").

With most skills at IV does 611 dps at ~52km, sentries track like autocannons on a Machariel with three TEs and max skills. Tanks 388 against angels which is getting to the dangerously low mark, but I've flown with a tank this low in missions, just need to be careful. Hit triggers properly and burn down high dps targets fast or build a more kitey fit like with MJD.

Replace AB with MJD and another gun with a DLA and you can simply kite hard missions (angels) at 100km away with bouncers, 109km optimal, 504.9 drone dps, guns won't go that far without going fully into falloff even with iron charges. Curators and wardens also hit out there, curators are lowest at 96km optimal, I'm sure you can slowboat those 4kms to get into optimal.

Fit improves as your skills go up, tank will become more than acceptable even against angels with a faction LAR or better yet deadspace.

Edit: With the new bonuses, I would be hard pressed to replace a standard Dominix with a Navy Issue, the second bonus on the Navy ship is large hybrid damage, without damage mods it's not a big portion of your dps, it does add a nice 6th mid for something like a web but other than that the difference between them at max skills using T1 antimatter is 47 dps or ~4.9% more dps while the standard Domi has MUCH farther drone optimal and higher tracking. Standard Domi is probably best.

Edit: Forgot Drones V requirement for sentries (you should always have drones V anyway, less than max number of drones is silly).
Boomhaur
#58 - 2013-06-16 21:36:13 UTC
Low SP and battleships don't mix. Heck I have over 42mil SP and I am just now thinking about (not trained) getting into a battleship and I am almost entirely focused on combat. You might want to hold off a bit. And no I'm not joking/exagerating about my skills Shocked.

Now that I had my fun, in all seriousness I think a Domi would probably be one of the more LOW SP friendly BS's as I saw a few people already mention when I lightly skimmed the thread.

Welcome to Eve. Everyone here is an Evil Sick Sadistic Bastard who is out to get you. Anyone who tells you otherwise is either trying to scam you or use you.
I Accidentally YourShip
Ronin ONE
Ronin Reloaded
#59 - 2013-06-17 06:35:33 UTC
Boomhaur wrote:
Low SP and battleships don't mix. Heck I have over 42mil SP and I am just now thinking about (not trained) getting into a battleship and I am almost entirely focused on combat. You might want to hold off a bit. And no I'm not joking/exagerating about my skills Shocked.

Now that I had my fun, in all seriousness I think a Domi would probably be one of the more LOW SP friendly BS's as I saw a few people already mention when I lightly skimmed the thread.


You can have 42m SP and not have a single point in battleship based skills, it's not the amount you have it's where you put them.

My character was doing L4s in a battleship very quickly and I didn't even go the raven route.
Aplier Shivra
#60 - 2013-06-17 12:16:43 UTC
I Accidentally YourShip wrote:

Before you make statements about tracking you should probably run the fits in EFT first. Tracking is not something that is intuitive based on the numbers you get from it, running eft dps graphs with different typical ship sizes helps put it into perspective. In this case it is probably better to have the second TE even if the TC is scripted for tracking, but it isn't always the case to sacrifice a 4th damage mod for tracking especially for weapon systems that already have good tracking. Machariel is obviously one example where 4 damage mods is the only way to go, anything else is efficiency loss.


The Tracking Enhancer suggestion wasn't so much for the tracking boost, but the range boost, but unfortunately the module isn't called a Range and Tracking Enhancer. Because almost all of an autocannon Mach's range is falloff, increasing range is also a direct increase to dps at anything farther than the abysmal optimal. I actually did put the numbers into EFT, and against low angular velocity targets (almost perfectly still battleships), the TE was more dps when range was above ~40% falloff (around 20km with the T1 ammo a low skill pilot would have, 50km with barrage), and better dps almost all the time against smaller or orbiting targets, including another BS orbiting you, which most tend to do at or before that aforementioned 20k range.

But anyways, there's enough low slots to go with 4 gyrostabs and 2 TE's, and as I mentioned I'm no pro with mach fits, just threw out a suggestion of one way he could improve what he currently has. The purpose of that post was more just to make the guy aware of the steepness of the stacking penalties, and when you get deep into that penalty there are usually other options that are more bang for your buck, as I don't think your "dps is dps" statement applies to using 200 calibration on 1% more paper dps. (and btw, using an ACR rig and upgrading to 1400's would be more dps than burst aerator II on 1200's)