Skill Discussions

CCP only refunds skillpoints when the skill is no longer usable in the game, like the learning skills.

Citadel missiles are still in the game. Just because you choose not to fly any ships that can use them doesn't mean you should get the skill points back.

It is true, I have agreed with this - those are the only times CCP has previously refunded skill points. I expect my request will probably be denied or ignored. I stated as much in the OP.

However, I am not sure if CCP is actually that dogmatic about it:

I can't see any precedent that covers a design change that removes a module from the very top tier of a race's ships. Devs have often encouraged specialization and I am sure they did not intend to cost a player time in skill points or force anyone to train another race's capital ships. I believe it is unprecedented and am awaiting correction on this point.

CCP have recently granted 100,000 skillpoints to all players for recent server issues that might have impacted training if any customers were unable to log on for skill changes. We used to get dinged for this all the time, especially before the 24 hour skill queue. Compensating players for this is very new and may indicate a change of philosophy regarding customer expectations.

Devs have posted that we would be able to fly anything after the latest rebalances that we could previously even if we did not have the latest skill requirements. It's a bit of a stretch, but I don't think they intended to strand anyone with extra skills due to these design changes.

The problem is, if they refund your sp they will have to refund it in many other cases, which will make it unrealistic. If the basis of the argument is if due to design changes I stopped using a particular module or ship and hence I should be reimbursed applies to a lot of changes. For example you can argue that the specific shield resistances that used to add a passive resistances to the active shield hardners when you are capped out, stopped doing so. So the skillpoints you used are now useless (who the **** uses passive hardeners, except care bear tengus in wh's). Another example could be the changes to the Armageddon hull. Maybe you trained lasorz to fly the Armageddon, but now it is not required, should you reimbursed. Granted you can use lazors for other ships but so can you with citadel torps. As you can see they are many more examples where the grounds for this argument doesn't make it feasible. Should they also reimburse you for the battleship 5 skill also, if you only skilled it up to use caps? As you see the rabbit hole goes very deep if you cross that line.

I think you should ask yourself the question, did the changes improve the ship you fly notwithstanding the skill cost or not? the question here is obviously yes. Before the changes you were willing to put 542k extra skill points in a worse ship. Now you have a better ship for less skill cost and you should have an increase in overall utility.

The people moaning should be the people that were affected by the shield resistance skill changes for example (i have all to 5 **** me please), as it made the skills completely obsolete (2m down the drain) with absolutely no added benefit, unlike the naglfar changes.

Just because you don't use it doesn't mean you lost access to it.

They should remove capital class missiles from the game, give the phoenix bonus to hybrids, and be done with it.

It'd turn into a bad Moros, because they'd give it optimal range instead of tracking.

@OP: Deal. With. It.

I think it's a valid point you are making, but I think you are forgetting the fact that in order to be a Naglfar pilot you have by definition been prepared to take it up the ass from CCP for years already and so why should things change now.

For instance:

1. Everyone complaining that split weapon system is bullcrap and CCP should just make the Nag pure guns. CCP art department categorically refuse and instead pilots get a 3rd weapon to train aka citadel cruise missiles.

2. CCP admitting that TSM is effectively useless to train to 5 so they reduce capital shield operation pre-reqs to 4. Asks pilots to 'watch this space' about the TSM skill (3-4 years later still watching). Noone who previously had trained it to 5 gets a refund. Rumours abound that CCP will reduce the skill rank and refund but rumours account for nothing.

3. CCP admitting the Hel has no real role and that it needs a better bonus.

In effect, if yoiu are a Minmatar capital pilot you have by now gotten so used to being dicked about by CCP with regard to capital ships you aren't going to get up on arms about yet another change, because your feelings werent cared about before so why should they be now.

Only way to get around it is to trade fo a different character!

Have to remember as well that capital balancing is coming "Soon(tm)" at which point, having the ability to use a semi-well trained Phoenix may prove useful. The Phoenix is useless currently, but in a year's time, we might all be wishing we'd trained for one.

OP,

You need PLEX for Removal of Unwanted Skills!

You can remove any skills that you have no use for & mess up your other perfectly looking skill sheet.

btw, You DO NOT get reimbursed for the skill points

Well said.

I think it's logical that reimbursing the cap missile skills should have been part of the Naglfar fix. It's a shame that so many Minmatar pilots are inured to this kind of treatment by CCP - this thread needs more support.