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Is Incarna worth pursuing, and what does it need to succeed?

Author
Rynn Vendran
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2013-06-16 19:38:37 UTC
My own view is that the Incarna (WiS) feature helps add an extra layer of immersion to the game. While I love the ship-based aesthetic of EVE, having a highly detailed avatar that I can actually interact with as opposed to a simple 2D chatbox image is very cool and draws me deeper into this universe. I love the hangar and captain's quarters, not just because they look incredible and are fun to interact with (limited though that may be) but because it helps give EVE a more tactile feel to it, which I think is important, especially in the bonding process. I love it, and I'm glad it's included.

That said, I've read up on the backlash and there are definitely some good points as to where Incarna went wrong, primarily the "cash grab" aspect of it with the NEX store, microtransactions, etc. We've seen this before in other MMO's and what's good for them may not be good for EVE, especially when you consider just how unique this game is. So is Incarna worth saving, let alone continued development? Maybe, but only if it truly adds value to the game. Avatar interaction is a given, so where to go from there? Maybe things like being able to sabotage another player's ship? Or hacking another player's character? Recreational minigames where you can challenge another player to a game of skill or strategy? I should stress at this point that what EVE does NOT need is another Playstation Home experience (though a dance floor would be hilarious) and that if any sort of Incarna expansion is to be considered, it must adhere to the aesthetic and world-sense of the existing universe.

Is it a worthwhile endeavor? I think it could be, especially with the tech that CCP has on display. But it must be done right if it's going to be done at all.

Thoughts?

_Hey now, hey now now, sing this corrosion to me... _

Xavier Liche
ACME Mineral and Gas
#2 - 2013-06-16 19:43:00 UTC
lol, the backlash, you want to know what really went wrong? A lot of vain kiddies could not afford a monocle...

Sure they cried about this that and the other thing, but in the end it was too expensive and mommy wouldn't fork up.

Otherwise no one cared, you could after all turn if off and ship spinning is better than ever.
Endeavour Starfleet
#3 - 2013-06-16 19:45:32 UTC
IF they are still interested in giving it another try the only way I would fully support the idea is if it was crowd funded.

As in a Kickstarter to hire a fully dedicated team to work on it without reducing development of Flying in Space by even a single minute. (Kickstarter used as an example as they may not be able to use it being an Icelandic HQ)

And if crowdfunded they MUST not allow it to be funded Via PLEX. Players in EVE should not have to deal with higher PLEX prices so that Spacerich people can fund station walking. If people truly believe in WiS let them pay for it with their own funds in my opinion.
iskflakes
#4 - 2013-06-16 19:47:41 UTC
It needs more NEX items to troll with, they were the best feature.

Adding some kind of shared space would also help.

-

Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#5 - 2013-06-16 19:51:27 UTC
Xavier Liche wrote:
lol, the backlash, you want to know what really went wrong? A lot of vain kiddies could not afford a monocle....


Yeah, I'm sure CCP wanting to sell ammo & ships for real money with OP advantages had nothing to do with it.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#6 - 2013-06-16 20:03:58 UTC
Oh look, it's this thread again.

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.

Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#7 - 2013-06-16 20:05:14 UTC
Doc Fury wrote:
Oh look, it's this thread again.



Oh look, it's this reply again.
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2013-06-16 20:08:12 UTC
A working door

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny

Xessej
Perkone
Caldari State
#9 - 2013-06-16 20:10:17 UTC
Short answer, no.

Long answer, Hell no.
space submarine
#10 - 2013-06-16 20:23:54 UTC
There's a lot of sandbox stuff they could bring in with WiS, along with more depth and immersion. Development time and cost is really a moot issue, I don't see anti-WiS people complaining about DUST or WoD.

>oh but those are separate development teams

That's how it was with Incarna to. At least WiS is in EVE.
Khadann
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#11 - 2013-06-16 20:25:47 UTC
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
IF they are still interested in giving it another try the only way I would fully support the idea is if it was crowd funded.

As in a Kickstarter to hire a fully dedicated team to work on it without reducing development of Flying in Space by even a single minute. (Kickstarter used as an example as they may not be able to use it being an Icelandic HQ)

And if crowdfunded they MUST not allow it to be funded Via PLEX. Players in EVE should not have to deal with higher PLEX prices so that Spacerich people can fund station walking. If people truly believe in WiS let them pay for it with their own funds in my opinion.


THIS
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#12 - 2013-06-16 20:29:14 UTC
space submarine wrote:
There's a lot of sandbox stuff they could bring in with WiS, along with more depth and immersion.


Hell yes. I need my Malibu Dream House.

Also, I don't just want to walk in stations. I demand to be allowed planet side so that I can hit up the local mall and laugh my ass off at the shoe store calling their central planetary bank in order to break 1 ISK.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#13 - 2013-06-16 20:32:42 UTC
What does WiS need? Content.

Something to do, which isn't just 'look at yourself'.

Things like:
Find an ancient station you can dock in (so your ship isn't just hanging out in space to get blown up), then explore, to find stuff.
Meet with other players, and play games like Slay.

That kind of thing.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#14 - 2013-06-16 20:33:59 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
What does WiS need? Content.

Something to do, which isn't just 'look at yourself'.

Things like:
Find an ancient station you can dock in (so your ship isn't just hanging out in space to get blown up), then explore, to find stuff.
Meet with other players, and play games like Slay.

That kind of thing.


I would **** brix to be able to dock up and walk around a Sleeper station in W-space.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#15 - 2013-06-16 20:35:32 UTC
All it needs to do to succeed is fulfil the promises made at FF2008 in regards to content and player controls.

What it doesn't need is state-of-the-art graphics that make it too complicated for the devs (and players) to create that content.
mechtech
Ice Liberation Army
#16 - 2013-06-16 20:36:18 UTC
I think it would be a great addition to the game if it was kept limited in scope, but functional.

Station atrium, corp meeting room, poker/game room/bar. That's it. This would add so much RP flavor to the game.

The only other benefit it could offer is a tutorial room for new players. I'm thinking a nice social environment with high-tech bulletin boards that display information and training missions (tanking exercise, tracking training mission, etc). ISD characters could actually walk around and help instead of just being a tiny line of 10 point font in a rookie channel. This would greatly boost player retention and be worth the dev investment.
space submarine
#17 - 2013-06-16 20:36:29 UTC
Domanique Altares wrote:
space submarine wrote:
There's a lot of sandbox stuff they could bring in with WiS, along with more depth and immersion.


Hell yes. I need my Malibu Dream House.

Also, I don't just want to walk in stations. I demand to be allowed planet side so that I can hit up the local mall and laugh my ass off at the shoe store calling their central planetary bank in order to break 1 ISK.


Player owned bars and shops, any avenue which could lead to more player created content, even things like a Steam Workshop. There's really a ton of options. I'd just like a few games to play for times when I'm just sitting in station anyway.

I don't really understand your sarcasm, you're eager to belittle player customization yet you obviously spent some time on your hair and makeup Roll
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#18 - 2013-06-16 20:40:04 UTC
space submarine wrote:

I don't really understand your sarcasm,


Your detector needs recalibration.

Also, I did my hair and makeup because you have to look at me here.

You needn't see me in my Captains Quarters, mussed up, drooling, and with the needle still sticking out of my arm.
marVLs
#19 - 2013-06-16 21:02:34 UTC
I see only two problems with WiS on EVE:

1. Stations with big number of players (performance)
2. Quick moving between rooms, services etc (teleport? it don't fit eve style, elevators? takes too long)


I don't understand this attitude that WiS must be in every aspect functional and have purpose, yeah no one need useless function but some of them just to be there are needed like in other games or other features in EVE, i mean walking in hangar just to look at those ennormous ships, sitting in bar/disco and chillin, walk on station and seeing on window what's going on outside etc. those thing bring nothing too gameplay and are not functional but hell yeah that would be cool and it gives immersion into game.

From cool, functional aspects:
- taking control of other players stations in null by boarding it (self destruct or using station guns)
- fighting with sansha on station in incursion systems
- exploration
- minigames/gambling
- drug smuggling
- corp meeting in corp renting room
- renting own personalized quarters (isk sink)
- medical bays with clonning system
Black Dranzer
#20 - 2013-06-16 21:10:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Black Dranzer
Incarna earned a lot of backlash because it was hyped to high hell and then failed to deliver massively. It came across as an incredibly pissy justification for a cash shop. As if they spent several years to build a marketing campaign to sell us **** that we didn't want. This is why Incarna crashed and burned. It has little to nothing to do with the question of if walking outside of your ship is "cool".

CCP went in the lore direction of "players hate leaving their ship, but sometimes you have to GET THINGS DONE SMUGGLING ASSASSINATION DARK GRITTY GRRRRRR". The problem is, we were already getting things done in our ships really ******* easily. Perhaps some of that stuff shouldn't be done really easily, but CCP don't want to remove it because it'd **** off a lot of players.

The problem with CCP was that they looked for justification as to why a player would leave their ship, when they already had the justification: It's the same reason you sit in a station spinning your ship. Because sometimes, you want to unwind. Sometimes you don't want to be out there slogging away, mining, flying, shooting, trading, whatever it is you do. Maybe sometimes you just want to sit in your station and spin ships.

So my advice is this: Walking in stations should not be about business. It should be about pleasure.

Eve lacks area-orientated social hubs. You have local, and maybe you run into a guy in a belt, but that doesn't really count. I'm talking actual genuine social hubs. Viewing galleries. Casinos. Bars. Places to hang out. Alternatives to ship spinning. Don't worry about sticking some mechanic or incentive in there; Just have entertainment. Sitting in your pod constantly is probably a bit uncomfortable. Being a god-machine is fun and all, but we're still humans. Maybe sometimes I want to step out of the pod and smell the closest thing Eve has to fresh air. Maybe I want to stretch my legs. Maybe I want to unwind and shoot the **** with the local pilots, rather than be ALL BUSINESS ALL THE TIME PIRATES SMUGGLING ASSASSINATION GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.

So that's my advice on this. Work on making WIS a bunch of social hubs. Nothing more, nothing less.

And hide our neocom unless we bring up an iphone-like interface. And maybe make it first person, too. We already have mirrors.

Edit: Damn it, now I want to propose this in Features and Ideas. "WiS as a pure social hub".

Edit 2: So I did!
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