These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page123Next page
 

When do we see Torpedo changes?

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#21 - 2013-06-15 11:10:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Alvatore DiMarco
Wait a minute.

So I just checked this with EFT, since I don't fly torpedo boats because battleships are... well.. battleships.

Basic, unbonused T1 Rockets reach out to 10km. HAMs reach to 20km. Torpedoes also reach to 20km... ..what? That's messed up. They should at least follow the progression and reach to 30km. After you consider that EFT's distances are a bit longer than what you actually get, the situation is even more ridiculous. You're better off firing Rage HAMs from a triple-BCU'd MWD Cerb/Tengu/(Navy) Drake/Nighthawk than you are using torps.

Why would anyone fly a torpedo boat unless there were distinct bonuses to them? Sorry Pizza, but bombers don't count.
Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#22 - 2013-06-15 11:25:36 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Wait a minute.

So I just checked this with EFT, since I don't fly torpedo boats because battleships are... well.. battleships.

Basic, unbonused T1 Rockets reach out to 10km. HAMs reach to 20km. Torpedoes also reach to 20km... ..what? That's messed up. They should at least follow the progression and reach to 30km. After you consider that EFT's distances are a bit longer than what you actually get, the situation is even more ridiculous. You're better off firing Rage HAMs from a triple-BCU'd MWD Cerb/Tengu/(Navy) Drake/Nighthawk than you are using torps.

Why would anyone fly a torpedo boat unless there were distinct bonuses to them? Sorry Pizza, but bombers don't count.


This shows what fozzie has already said is that rockets and HAMS range is too good and will get nerfed eventually..

'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium Nerf missile range into place where is the TD missile change?  ..projectiles should use capacitor. ABC's should be T2 HABC and nerf web strength its still too high

Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2013-06-15 11:30:55 UTC
Jonas Sukarala wrote:
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Wait a minute.

So I just checked this with EFT, since I don't fly torpedo boats because battleships are... well.. battleships.

Basic, unbonused T1 Rockets reach out to 10km. HAMs reach to 20km. Torpedoes also reach to 20km... ..what? That's messed up. They should at least follow the progression and reach to 30km. After you consider that EFT's distances are a bit longer than what you actually get, the situation is even more ridiculous. You're better off firing Rage HAMs from a triple-BCU'd MWD Cerb/Tengu/(Navy) Drake/Nighthawk than you are using torps.

Why would anyone fly a torpedo boat unless there were distinct bonuses to them? Sorry Pizza, but bombers don't count.


This shows what fozzie has already said is that rockets and HAMS range is too good and will get nerfed eventually..

Probably or what i think that Fozzie just has no clue at all or just biased :)
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#24 - 2013-06-15 11:37:24 UTC
Jonas Sukarala wrote:
This shows what fozzie has already said is that rockets and HAMS range is too good and will get nerfed eventually..


If Fozzie actually said this, that's a pretty hilariously wrong-minded thing for Fozzie to say. If you cut the range of rockets any further, you'll have to be right on top of the target in order for them to hit. If you're webbed, then your rockets won't even make it to the target unless you're bringing a MWD and the other guy isn't.

If you're going to cut the range of HAMs.. ..why would you even do that in the first place?

Cutting the range will make short-range missiles ridiculous and pointless on unbonused hulls.
Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#25 - 2013-06-15 11:40:57 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Jonas Sukarala wrote:
This shows what fozzie has already said is that rockets and HAMS range is too good and will get nerfed eventually..


If Fozzie actually said this, that's a pretty hilariously wrong-minded thing for Fozzie to say. If you cut the range of rockets any further, you'll have to be right on top of the target in order for them to hit. If you're webbed, then your rockets won't even make it to the target unless you're bringing a MWD and the other guy isn't.

If you're going to cut the range of HAMs.. ..why would you even do that in the first place?

Cutting the range will make short-range missiles ridiculous and pointless on unbonused hulls.


What are you on?....... they have better range than most guns do .... also javelins come to mind.

'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium Nerf missile range into place where is the TD missile change?  ..projectiles should use capacitor. ABC's should be T2 HABC and nerf web strength its still too high

Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#26 - 2013-06-15 11:57:05 UTC
Jonas Sukarala wrote:
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Jonas Sukarala wrote:
This shows what fozzie has already said is that rockets and HAMS range is too good and will get nerfed eventually..


If Fozzie actually said this, that's a pretty hilariously wrong-minded thing for Fozzie to say. If you cut the range of rockets any further, you'll have to be right on top of the target in order for them to hit. If you're webbed, then your rockets won't even make it to the target unless you're bringing a MWD and the other guy isn't.

If you're going to cut the range of HAMs.. ..why would you even do that in the first place?

Cutting the range will make short-range missiles ridiculous and pointless on unbonused hulls.


What are you on?....... they have better range than most guns do .... also javelins come to mind.

not much better range that +2-3 km isnt that huge
and rockets have much smaller dps 18 vs 28 and 30
Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#27 - 2013-06-15 12:40:18 UTC
Naomi Knight wrote:
Jonas Sukarala wrote:
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Jonas Sukarala wrote:
This shows what fozzie has already said is that rockets and HAMS range is too good and will get nerfed eventually..


If Fozzie actually said this, that's a pretty hilariously wrong-minded thing for Fozzie to say. If you cut the range of rockets any further, you'll have to be right on top of the target in order for them to hit. If you're webbed, then your rockets won't even make it to the target unless you're bringing a MWD and the other guy isn't.

If you're going to cut the range of HAMs.. ..why would you even do that in the first place?

Cutting the range will make short-range missiles ridiculous and pointless on unbonused hulls.


What are you on?....... they have better range than most guns do .... also javelins come to mind.

not much better range that +2-3 km isnt that huge
and rockets have much smaller dps 18 vs 28 and 30


you do realize that 10km is as good as medium guns do?
and 15km with javelin .. even scorch on a frigate would struggle to hit that range in 2x falloff.

'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium Nerf missile range into place where is the TD missile change?  ..projectiles should use capacitor. ABC's should be T2 HABC and nerf web strength its still too high

Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#28 - 2013-06-15 13:05:10 UTC
Jonas Sukarala wrote:

you do realize that 10km is as good as medium guns do?
and 15km with javelin .. even scorch on a frigate would struggle to hit that range in 2x falloff.

do you realize that they do much much more dmg?
javelin 15dps scorch 25dps oh yeah i see how rockets are superior...
Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#29 - 2013-06-15 13:08:21 UTC
Naomi Knight wrote:
Jonas Sukarala wrote:

you do realize that 10km is as good as medium guns do?
and 15km with javelin .. even scorch on a frigate would struggle to hit that range in 2x falloff.

do you realize that they do much much more dmg?
javelin 15dps scorch 25dps oh yeah i see how rockets are superior...


well thats less than i thought maybe they could exchange some range for dps then

'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium Nerf missile range into place where is the TD missile change?  ..projectiles should use capacitor. ABC's should be T2 HABC and nerf web strength its still too high

Funky Lazers
Funk Freakers
#30 - 2013-06-15 23:05:29 UTC
I actually forgot to mention the other issue:
Every Blaster/Pulse/AC ship can fit MWD painlessly.
Because of TCs/TEs your guns perform well, you also don't need to rig them hard. Torps on the other hand need at least 2 TPs and one Web which usually means you fit less tank in order to get that MWD fitted.

It means there are no mods affecting expl. radius and speed, excluding TP because it's a fleet mod. Guns can perform well even without Webs, while Torps can't.

There was a talk some time ago about TCs/TEs affecting missiles. Well I think it's a great idea.
The only thing I disagree about is TDs affecting missiles. Missiles have a lot of drawbacks already, there is no point doing that.

Whatever.
Naomi Anthar
#31 - 2013-06-16 00:36:57 UTC
So you want to CCP into same mistake as with rockets and HAMS ? Aka HUGE DAMAGE, all possible damage types, no cap usage + massive range on supposed to be short range weapon system (or short - op as hell) .

Then my answer is no. Devs answer is same and if you pay attention they already said (Fozzie if i remember) that it won't go buff way but rather opposite.
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#32 - 2013-06-16 00:39:08 UTC
Torps are closer to proper balance than Hams and Rockets are.

We'll continue evaluating and tweaking all weapon systems as we go, but Torps are in very good shape right now overall.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Naomi Anthar
#33 - 2013-06-16 00:44:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Naomi Anthar
Funky Lazers wrote:
I actually forgot to mention the other issue:
Every Blaster/Pulse/AC ship can fit MWD painlessly.
Because of TCs/TEs your guns perform well, you also don't need to rig them hard. Torps on the other hand need at least 2 TPs and one Web which usually means you fit less tank in order to get that MWD fitted.

It means there are no mods affecting expl. radius and speed, excluding TP because it's a fleet mod. Guns can perform well even without Webs, while Torps can't.

There was a talk some time ago about TCs/TEs affecting missiles. Well I think it's a great idea.
The only thing I disagree about is TDs affecting missiles. Missiles have a lot of drawbacks already, there is no point doing that.


Oh so now you want TE/TC to affect missiles, but TD not ? Hahaha that's not topic - it's comedy act.
But i want to ask question - what drawbacks you are talking about ? No cap usage , huge range , huge damage , fully selectable damage types, immunity to EWAR ? Or what ? I actually don't see any drawback in missiles except damage at very close range where you can use hail,conflagration,void ammo (but at all other ranges missiles can and they do better).
Soon you will see nerfs to missiles, not buffs. And it will be balance not real nerfs actually. Justice is also correct word - probably best on this topic.

Edit : Oh +1 Fozzie ... thank you very much.
Dato Koppla
Spaghetti Militia
#34 - 2013-06-16 01:34:58 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Torps are closer to proper balance than Hams and Rockets are.

We'll continue evaluating and tweaking all weapon systems as we go, but Torps are in very good shape right now overall.


I'm just curious what that conclusion is based on? Cause from what I've seen in-game and read on the forums that statement doesn't seem to be the case.

Thanks for replying to all these threads though Fozzie, much appreciated!
Funky Lazers
Funk Freakers
#35 - 2013-06-16 09:00:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Funky Lazers
Fozzie, you were my last hope.

I thought you'd say: "Sure bro! We'll change the torps as you want!"

CCP Fozzie wrote:
We'll continue evaluating and tweaking all weapon systems as we go, but Torps are in very good shape right now overall.

And this is just a polite no. I wonder how many topics will take to change the torps. I mean a lot of CCP guys were saying Hybrids are ok and it took a few years to get them changed.

Whatever.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#36 - 2013-06-16 09:05:47 UTC
Instead, it really does look like he'd prefer to nerf HAMs and rockets.

..To think that rockets were "fixed" and finally useable after so many years of being useless stinky catshit.
Bakuhz
Banana-Republic.
Shadow Cartel
#37 - 2013-06-16 09:16:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Bakuhz
Torp's are fine as they are.
they are short range weapons and do great damage to be asact they are quite an alpha strike weapon dps is nice but its the alpha that is important on torp's

still hittign 1100 1200 dps with torps on a CNR or raven a little less.

is good as it is that is monstrous damage and pretty much in line with short range guns and ammo.

missiles do have a little diffrent game machanic then guns have but they all have issues with speedy targets.
webifier's are the key in this and target painters help guns aswell missiles.

so i see no real need of change

https://zkillboard.com/character/584042527/
Bakuhz
Banana-Republic.
Shadow Cartel
#38 - 2013-06-16 09:25:17 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Torps are closer to proper balance than Hams and Rockets are.

We'll continue evaluating and tweaking all weapon systems as we go, but Torps are in very good shape right now overall.


torps are great as they are.
explain why HAM's are out of sync?

https://zkillboard.com/character/584042527/
Funky Lazers
Funk Freakers
#39 - 2013-06-16 09:29:51 UTC
Bakuhz wrote:

is good as it is that is monstrous damage and pretty much in line with short range guns and ammo.


I just opened EFT and compared Torp Raven's damage to Blaster Megathron's with the same amount +damage mods.

Mega: 965
Raven: 875

Almost 100 DPS difference. Tell me, where did you see "monstrous" damage?!

Whatever.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2013-06-16 09:32:23 UTC
Torpedoes are closer to artillery than blasters.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Previous page123Next page