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ISK devaluation
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Ottersmacker
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#61 - 2013-06-15 11:35:19 UTC
haven't seen anything i'd call devaluation except the npc bpo price increases vOv

i just locked an open door.. strange, yet symbolically compelling.
Sipphakta en Gravonere
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#62 - 2013-06-15 12:10:02 UTC
Lors Dornick wrote:
Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Oggat wrote:
In the case of EVE it has been pointed out multiple times, PvP is a faucet, not a sink. I get insurance from every loss.


Insurance rarely covers the real value of the ships (unless you're fighting in a T1 frigate or destroyer), so it is a ISK sink.


Player A has 100M ISK
Player B has a fitted Battleship
Total ISK: 100M

Now Player A buys the BS:

Player A has a fitted Battleship
Player B has 100M-Taxes.
Total ISK: 100M-Taxes

Now Player A's BS gets destroyed:

Player A has 60M Insurance ISK
Player B has 100M-Taxes
Total ISK: 160M-Taxes

Conclusion: Insurance is an ISK faucet.

Only if Player B was granted that 100M fitted battleship from whatever gods that might be around.

While I'd love to find that tree that hand hands me ripe and fitted battleships, I still haven't found it.


It doesn't matter where it came from, unless Player A payd 100M ISK to CCP/a NPC for the battleship. PVP never removes ISK from the game, every time a ship explodes the total amount of ISK in the eve economy rises.
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#63 - 2013-06-15 12:34:28 UTC
Scarce is bad for players but healthy for smart players to find new ways to make isk or get loads of it from those who have far too much.

Everything is fine, it's a bit like natural selection, you either man up and do it right or choose to be a victim. Take your pick.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#64 - 2013-06-15 14:33:14 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Number 17 wrote:
How much has the ISK devaluated since 2010? I have just came back and I'm shocked!
Is it easier to make isk now?


About 50%.

Was shocked as well when returning. Back then PLEX was around 250m ISK, now it's getting close to 600m.


This isn't isk devaluation. This is commodity inflation driven by demand. Plex was introduced around that time. New commodity. It took time for demand to grow, for people to realize what could be done with it and how to attain it.

Presently, alliances are vying for alliance tournament slots which is driving increased demand for plex as hundreds or thousands of them are being purchased for AT bids.

Don't ban me, bro!
Logical Chaos
Very Italian People
The Initiative.
#65 - 2013-06-15 15:14:45 UTC
Tyrton wrote:
Tom Gerard wrote:
Number 17 wrote:
How much has the ISK devaluated since 2010? I have just came back and I'm shocked!
Is it easier to make isk now?


I can complete a level 4 mission that pays 3.5m in completion with another 1.5 in bonus, and 11k LP in under 22 minutes. Add in the fact the loot can sell to reprocessors for ~100m in loot/bounties.

I can get in two of these missions in an hour without much stress at all.

200m
7m
3m
22k * 2k = 44m

I consider myself an average mission runner so thats:
254m/hour



Please name which lvl 4 has 100m in loot and bounties.

Those numbers are off .


Quoting someone who tried to find honest and reasonable figures in a Tom Gerard post.
Kilastria Mog'oran
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#66 - 2013-06-16 03:34:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Kilastria Mog'oran
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:
Conclusion: Insurance is an ISK faucet.


If your conclusion is true, why doesn't CCP just hands out free ships?

Because death must = a consequence.

Conclusion: Someone is paying someone for the loss.

And ISK doesn't grow on trees...


The problem is that you are confusing an ISK sink for individual with an ISK sink for economy as a whole. You are correct that there is a consequence for loss and that the "individual" player loses ISK but the economy as a whole has ISK added to it.

Actually ISK does grow on trees. Every time you receive ISK from any source other than from another live player, that ISK has "grown on a tree" since it was created from no where. Where did the ISK come from when you ran your last mission? No where. It was created specifically to pay you for completing that mission and was not taken away from another player, therefore it came from a faucet.

The same is true for the insurance example. If you pay an NPC "x" ISK and receive "x+y" ISK in return, even if that amount is less than you initially paid for your ship, "y" ISK was added to the economy. The initial money you paid for your ship went to another player. So even though YOU lost ISK overall, the total amount you paid for the ship still exists in someone else's wallet. Therefore there is now more ISK in the system in the form of the extra "y" ISK you received in your insurance payout.

Examples of true ISK sinks are Brokerage Fees and the like, as they are paid to NPCs and are removed from the economy.
. 
Sex Slave Girl
Absolute Order XVIII
Absolute Will
#67 - 2013-06-16 04:01:36 UTC
Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Oggat wrote:
In the case of EVE it has been pointed out multiple times, PvP is a faucet, not a sink. I get insurance from every loss.


Insurance rarely covers the real value of the ships (unless you're fighting in a T1 frigate or destroyer), so it is a ISK sink.


Player A has 100M ISK
Player B has a fitted Battleship
Total ISK: 100M

Now Player A buys the BS:

Player A has a fitted Battleship
Player B has 100M-Taxes.
Total ISK: 100M-Taxes

Now Player A's BS gets destroyed:

Player A has 60M Insurance ISK
Player B has 100M-Taxes
Total ISK: 160M-Taxes

Conclusion: Insurance is an ISK faucet.


What about the other 2000 people who have that battleship, who have paid insurance startup fee, and never lose it?
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#68 - 2013-06-16 08:14:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Tom Gerard wrote:
Tyrton wrote:
.

I can get in two of these missions in an hour without much stress at all.

200m
7m
3m
22k * 2k = 44m

I consider myself an average mission runner so thats:
254m/hour



Please name which lvl 4 has 100m in loot and bounties.

Those numbers are off .


Dude this is a Tom Gerard post. It's like asking EvENews 24 to tell the truth: not going to happen.

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Jake Warbird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#69 - 2013-06-16 08:23:16 UTC
200m in loot every hour?? **** incursions lets go run L4s!

Sugar Von MurdererTits : Jake Warbird gets my vote for most intriguing and attractive male character in Eve.
Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#70 - 2013-06-16 09:05:19 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Tom Gerard wrote:
Number 17 wrote:
How much has the ISK devaluated since 2010? I have just came back and I'm shocked!
Is it easier to make isk now?


I can complete a level 4 mission that pays 3.5m in completion with another 1.5 in bonus, and 11k LP in under 22 minutes. Add in the fact the loot can sell to reprocessors for ~100m in loot/bounties.

I can get in two of these missions in an hour without much stress at all.

200m
7m
3m
22k * 2k = 44m

I consider myself an average mission runner so thats:
254m/hour


I am curious, which lvl 4 missions pay 11k LP?

Oh, and the usual, I earn (insert desired fantasy figure) millions an hour using my Velator ( insert desired fantasy skill points total here, but it must not be more than 2 million) armed with mining lazors to run level 4 missions.

3.5m completion reward and 11k LP are fairly typical numbers for lvl4s in 0.0 (payouts scale with system security).

100m loot/bounties seems exaggerated (though navy tags can be worth quite a bit) but then 2k isk/LP is pretty low for pirate faction LP.

.
Gordon Esil
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#71 - 2013-06-16 09:11:41 UTC
Jake Warbird wrote:
200m in loot every hour?? **** incursions lets go run L4s!

Yea I even can say the same for wormhole sites... screw them and screw sleepers LolPirate
Hamsey
Smell Inc
#72 - 2013-06-16 09:41:29 UTC
Vera Algaert wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Tom Gerard wrote:
Number 17 wrote:
How much has the ISK devaluated since 2010? I have just came back and I'm shocked!
Is it easier to make isk now?


I can complete a level 4 mission that pays 3.5m in completion with another 1.5 in bonus, and 11k LP in under 22 minutes. Add in the fact the loot can sell to reprocessors for ~100m in loot/bounties.

I can get in two of these missions in an hour without much stress at all.

200m
7m
3m
22k * 2k = 44m

I consider myself an average mission runner so thats:
254m/hour


I am curious, which lvl 4 missions pay 11k LP?

Oh, and the usual, I earn (insert desired fantasy figure) millions an hour using my Velator ( insert desired fantasy skill points total here, but it must not be more than 2 million) armed with mining lazors to run level 4 missions.

3.5m completion reward and 11k LP are fairly typical numbers for lvl4s in 0.0 (payouts scale with system security).

100m loot/bounties seems exaggerated (though navy tags can be worth quite a bit) but then 2k isk/LP is pretty low for pirate faction LP.


100 mil loot is worlds collide with faction spawn, however farming strictly world collide, not to mention getting faction spawn every time is nowhere near average
Sipphakta en Gravonere
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#73 - 2013-06-16 09:51:44 UTC
Sex Slave Girl wrote:

What about the other 2000 people who have that battleship, who have paid insurance startup fee, and never lose it?


What about them? https://twitter.com/CCP_Diagoras/status/168658521297129472 :

Sun, Feb 5th: 67.8bn ISK spent insuring ships; 125.8bn paid out by insurance companies.

I guess it is save to say that for every ship whose insurance runs out, there is another ship that gets blown up which has never been insured, generating the basic insurance ISK out of thin air.