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Fuel Pellets and shorter deployment times coming this winter to a POS near you!
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Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#21 - 2011-11-06 04:07:49 UTC
Emma Royd wrote:
Not quite sure how it's going to work, since not all POS fuel requirements are fixed, some (Heavy Water and Liquid Ozone) consumption rates vary depending on the cpu & power grid load on the tower).
I assume that they'll probably just make it easy and just have it as if the tower was at max load all the time.

It's high time they've done this, and as long as the pellets are the same size (if not preferably a bit smaller) than the combined fuels, then happy days Big smile, time to re-write the spreadsheet.


There's a few ways they could go:

- A base level per-hour pellet consumption + additional pellets based on CPU/PG usage.

- Pellet consumption is based solely on CPU/PG usage.

- CPU/PG usage is not taken into account at all and all towers consume as if they are running at full utilization.

I would imagine that the 1st or 2nd option would be the way they do it, but they might also go for the simplicity of the 3rd method.

And I expect that there will be (4) sets of fuel pellet blueprints, one for reach race (Oxygen-based Fuel Pellet, for instance, would be used in Gallente towers).

This will also mean that instead of the PI-sourced fuels being a fairly static amount across all tower sizes, the amount of PI-sourced fuel would also change based on the tower size / consumption rate. Which could mean that small towers get slightly cheaper to run.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#22 - 2011-11-06 05:53:27 UTC
I'm sure the switchover to pellet based fuel will be smooth and flawless too.

I also expect fuel prices to rise, as an extra processing step will be required.

CCP could make variable grid and CPU go away. This could also mean more expensive fueling, as "one size doesn't fit all".

I'm not at all looking forward to this.
Emma Royd
Maddled Gommerils
#23 - 2011-11-06 07:13:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Emma Royd
I spent ages compiling a good reply, worked out some figures, and the FREAKING FORUM ATE MY POST AGAIN, so that's it ccp, you win, I'm not going to post any more.
pussnheels
Viziam
#24 - 2011-11-06 14:21:19 UTC  |  Edited by: pussnheels
Emma Royd wrote:
I spent ages compiling a good reply, worked out some figures, and the FREAKING FORUM ATE MY POST AGAIN, so that's it ccp, you win, I'm not going to post any more.



pro tip if you write more than 50 words CTRL-A and then CTRL -C in case it happens


How i think it works after reading that old thread those pellets only use the isotopes and other pi items but you still need to add your heavy water and liquid ozone seperate into the fuel bay including the starbasecharters if your pos is in high sec;
which makes more sense since cpu and grid v use depends largly on what modules you got on your pos

I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire
Leonard Dukes
Arbitrage Holdings Corporation
#25 - 2011-11-06 14:25:42 UTC
I'm surprised nobody's mentioned the Pirate Faction towers yet.

Using Caldari, Guristas and Dread Guristas as an example:

Guristas Towers consume roughly 15% fewer Ice Products (isotopes, heavy water, liquid ozone) than Caldari, and Dread Guristas enjoy a 25% reduction in consumption. However, these fuel bonuses don't carry over to the Planetary Goods they consume.

For the Small and Medium Towers, only Oxygen gets a consumption bonus, whereas the Large Towers get this bonus as well as a slight reduction in Coolant consumption. In these cases, though, the reduction is not equal (percentage-wise) to that of Ice Products.

Given all this, there are a few possibilities that spring to mind, including but not limited to:


  • Fuel Pellets will be built only from Planetary Goods. This will allow Pirate Faction Towers to retain their Ice Product consumption bonus, but they will lose their (nearly negligible) Planetary Goods bonus.

  • Fuel Pellets will include both Planetary Goods and Ice Products, with Pirate Faction Towers getting an across-the-board bonus on Pellet consumption, which results in a likewise reduction in Planetary Goods.

  • Same as above, but the percentage-wise consumption bonus will be adjusted to account for the inclusion of Planetary Goods
Sephiroth Clone VII
Brothers of Tyr
Goonswarm Federation
#26 - 2011-11-06 19:59:49 UTC
How will this work with bonus to consumption with towers with max sov?

And whats with faction towers not appearing anymore?

It may add convince to buying fuel (maybe it compresses all the stuff too), but make it harder producing if additional step is required.

Where it happens gives big issues, nullsec stations have non-existant slots, and a planet would require products from all kinds of other planets and doing this on a planet normally used for producing the stuff cuts production. Is it P4?

Is it required to be pellet or can it remain the same system?

I think the best place to have the pellets production be in the POS, also producing them from all components would give a good gauge on how much fuel left (and where any over suppys or deficiency exist for it running).

I don't see the feature adding much, the big issue with POS is using them, then fueling them. If it is forced, it hinder more then help.
Sephiroth Clone VII
Brothers of Tyr
Goonswarm Federation
#27 - 2011-11-06 20:00:02 UTC
repost
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#28 - 2011-11-06 20:35:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Sephiroth CloneIIV wrote:
How will this work with bonus to consumption with towers with max sov?

Probably pretty easy to make the pellets say 400 per hour for a large, then subtract from that the SOV bonus percentage.

Sephiroth CloneIIV wrote:
And whats with faction towers not appearing anymore?

See CCP Dropbear's post in CCP: Why dont Faction tower BPC's drop anymore?
pussnheels
Viziam
#29 - 2011-11-07 15:32:16 UTC
well the devblog about fuel pellets is out , looks fine to me no more calculator and a spreadsheet

I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire
Cyniac
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2011-11-07 15:43:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Cyniac
As a POS operator in a WH... I see this as a (potentially) negative development.

Either I have to import ice materials into my WH - process them into pellets and then I can fuel the POS.

Or I have to export PI materials process those into pellets and then import the pellets back into the POS.

Or I have to simply sell my stuff and buy pellets.

Depending on the size of the pellets (specifically, if pellets are the same size of their component parts or only somewhat smaller) this could mean more hauling. More hauling doesn't make me happy Evil
Tekota
The Freighter Factory
#31 - 2011-11-07 15:44:39 UTC
Looks to increase consumption rates of quite a few bits, but much easier logistics.
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#32 - 2011-11-07 15:50:26 UTC
pussnheels wrote:
well the devblog about fuel pellets is out , looks fine to me no more calculator and a spreadsheet


Linky:
http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=3029
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=30913&find=unread


Serial Chi
White Knights of Equestria
#33 - 2011-11-07 16:51:31 UTC
i like the new changes in the new dev blocks. makes it alot easier to fuel your pos, especially when you are running multiple. devs did good on the new changes.
Cyniac
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2011-11-07 17:20:45 UTC
Scrapyard Bob wrote:
pussnheels wrote:
well the devblog about fuel pellets is out , looks fine to me no more calculator and a spreadsheet


Linky:
http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=3029
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=30913&find=unread




Interesting.

217.6 m3 of POS fuel will then become 4 blocks with a total volume of 200 m3.

So slight reduction in POS fuel volume but not much... guess all those WH ops will now need to crank up their ammo assembly arrays now...
Brock Nelson
#35 - 2011-11-07 17:38:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Brock Nelson
Currently, 324,000 Nitrogen Isotopes is required to run a Large Caldari Tower for a month

With the change, 1,152,000 Nitrogen Isotopes is required to build enough fuel pellet to run a Large Caldari Tower for a month.

That's a helluva consumption increase, good thing I shut down 2 of my Towers down last month

Edit: Ok, I misread that, its in batches of 4 blocks.

Signature removed, CCP Phantom
Cyniac
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2011-11-07 17:47:14 UTC
Brock Nelson wrote:
Currently, 324,000 Nitrogen Isotopes is required to run a Large Caldari Tower for a month

With the change, 1,152,000 Nitrogen Isotopes is required to build enough fuel pellet to run a Large Caldari Tower for a month.

That's a helluva consumption increase, good thing I shut down 2 of my Towers down last month


288,000 units actually you are off by a factor of 4 (it's 4 block per for those materials)
ShadowMaster
#37 - 2011-11-07 17:55:53 UTC
Brock Nelson wrote:
Currently, 324,000 Nitrogen Isotopes is required to run a Large Caldari Tower for a month

With the change, 1,152,000 Nitrogen Isotopes is required to build enough fuel pellet to run a Large Caldari Tower for a month.

That's a helluva consumption increase, good thing I shut down 2 of my Towers down last month

Edit: Ok, I misread that, its in batches of 4 blocks.



Don't worry, you are not the only one to make that mistake. The comments thread for the blog is littered with people doing the same.

All said and done I am happy with the changes. I am surprised that they changed the LO and HW to constant consumption amounts, but I am happy. Sure will make calculations a hell of a lot easier.
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#38 - 2011-11-07 18:59:29 UTC
The Heavy Water change is a wash - most hi-sec towers tended to use all of their CPU anyway - and the HW costs per 30 days for a large tower was only about 2.2M.

The Liquid Ozone, OTOH, is more like 34.6M/mo and most existing towers probably only spent 17.3M/mo on Liquid Ozone. So there's a small increase in consumption costs.

Overall, unless LOz prices go nuts (past 600-800 ISK/u), the costs for running a large tower will go down slightly. Small towers will gain the most from this change as they will get about 20-25% cheaper to run.
Sebero Sinak
Doomheim
#39 - 2011-11-07 21:20:19 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Bleh,

Maybe I am one of the minority, but I am not excited about this change. Of course it depends on the details of implementation. But I can forsee several issues, at least in my situation.

Managing a WH POS in a C1, I have limited hauling capacity. Right now I have about 86km3 worth of fuel needed per month. I make almost all of the PI based fuel inside the WH. I haul in the ice products, and do so basically whenever I make a Jita run (hauler always comes back full is the policy). Given this I can easily stay ahead of my fuel needs.

Depending on how fuel pellets are implemented, and their size I will either have to dedicate another PI person to the assembly of fuel pellets, or have to haul in more m3 per month in the form of fuel pellets. And then either haul all of the PI materials out for sale or something.


I am in your exact situation ( c1, PI, hauling ). A simple Bestower hauls 5 days of medium pos fuel - i don't think we can complain yet about volume of fuel pellets. That is one thing many pilots are concerned about and i think CCP will get right.

The issue is that fuel pellets add a lvl of complexity to the process for the producers. They are supposed to make it easier for the users to consume, ( wether CCP gets that part right idk ).

Its to early to start screaming but i'm thinking be prepared for another tier of factories. Whenever you make it more complicated fewer people will do it and those that do will make more profit. I plan to be one.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2011-11-08 01:08:52 UTC
Sebero Sinak wrote:
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Bleh,

Maybe I am one of the minority, but I am not excited about this change. Of course it depends on the details of implementation. But I can forsee several issues, at least in my situation.

Managing a WH POS in a C1, I have limited hauling capacity. Right now I have about 86km3 worth of fuel needed per month. I make almost all of the PI based fuel inside the WH. I haul in the ice products, and do so basically whenever I make a Jita run (hauler always comes back full is the policy). Given this I can easily stay ahead of my fuel needs.

Depending on how fuel pellets are implemented, and their size I will either have to dedicate another PI person to the assembly of fuel pellets, or have to haul in more m3 per month in the form of fuel pellets. And then either haul all of the PI materials out for sale or something.


I am in your exact situation ( c1, PI, hauling ). A simple Bestower hauls 5 days of medium pos fuel - i don't think we can complain yet about volume of fuel pellets. That is one thing many pilots are concerned about and i think CCP will get right.

The issue is that fuel pellets add a lvl of complexity to the process for the producers. They are supposed to make it easier for the users to consume, ( wether CCP gets that part right idk ).

Its to early to start screaming but i'm thinking be prepared for another tier of factories. Whenever you make it more complicated fewer people will do it and those that do will make more profit. I plan to be one.


Looks like demand for ammo assembly arrays will be on the rise.

Yea for WH towers, and quite frankly any tower where people make some or all of their fuel (ice mining and PI) this will be an extra pain vs benefit. You will still be bringing in the various fuels and then having to take time and pos resources to make them in an ammo array. The only (slight) benefit is not needing my spreadsheet. Oh wait I still will so I know how much of each fuel type I have on hand inside the WH at any given time so I know what's I still need to haul in.

The inky benefit I see is for people who simply buy all of their fuel from the market. They can now buy blocks. Everyone else will just have an additional step.

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