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If you Nerf Concord, Tank up the HULK
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Tenchi Sal
White Knights of Equestria
#21 - 2011-11-07 04:20:44 UTC
i agree with giving the hulk a better tank with the new ships/changes comming in. with the new ships/changes comming, all the greifers are wetting their pants. they arent wetting their pants over the omg lets go pop some capitals. they cant wait to have an even easier time to take down barges.

take it from someone who ACTUALLY TANKS their hulk instead of going for max yield. its hard enough to survive a standard battlecruiser, buts its doable. now ccp wants to give battleship dps to gank mobiles and not bring "their prey" in line. why the hell would i bother any more fitting a tank on my hulk when there aint crap it can do against battleship dps? might as well join the rest and fit for max yield just so i can i have more income to replace the barges.

i think ccp is dropping the ball on this one and not realizing that when people get fed up, they can just say "ahhh **** it, 'X' game just came out, im gonna go play that." gonna be interesting to see the flood of threads that come with the massive gank increase.
Krios Ahzek
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2011-11-07 04:33:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Krios Ahzek
Honestly when I first started to lurk EVE-related websites maybe three months ago, I expected mining barges to be slow, lumbering colossi with enormous hit points, kind of like an orca with mining lasers. That's how it is generally in Sci-fi, and there are many stories of repurposed industrial and mining ships that serve as the basis for fearsome custom battleships. Ex: the Narada in the last Star Trek movie, the mining ships in Dead Space.
If I was able to design a mining barge, that's how I'd do it. The fitting stats of the current mining barges and exhumers make no sense, they should have at least cruiser stats. Unless ORE designed them badly on purpose to vent half the power from the cruiser-sized reactor DIRECTLY TO SPACE.

There should be a form of Kzinti lesson in EVE. That is, high powered space industrial equipment can serve as effective but unoptimized high powered space warfare equipment in a pinch.

It's be cool if hulks had BS tanks and if mining lasers could zap ships. Perhaps as a slow,continuous beam laser that does kinetic damage (or whatever type of damage makes it more effective against armor/structure).

More battle barges and rorquals, please.

 Though All Men Do Despise Us
sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade
Ghost Legion.
#23 - 2011-11-07 08:36:37 UTC
All the hulk needs is another buff in PG and CPU for the pilot to choose between either a LSE, Mining upgrade and DCII or, Two Mining upgrades.

It will still get ganked, just by ships that actually cost the same as it, not 2 million isk in the form or Arty Thrashers.

And a fit hulk cost 220m, getting ganked by 1% looks bad, if it were 2 BS that did it, then at lease you could finally put an end to whine threads from miners.

Don't ask about Italics, just tilt your head.
Alxea
Unstable Pirate Sharks Of The Damed Sea
#24 - 2011-11-07 11:36:21 UTC
Jaroslav Unwanted wrote:
Lord Mandelor wrote:
Anything can die in high-sec, a Hulk buff isn't needed.


well let see..

freighter .. you need about 20 battleships ..

freighter cost roughly half bil .. 20 battleships cost roughly one bil

Mission "expensive" ships .. well if they are ganked its their fault, if you fly something like this you dont really need isk that much and could take some people with you .. which somewhat can fight however in the end you still need several battleships to take it down.

hulk cost 150 mil roughly / soon to be kiled by dessie 2mil .. doesnt matter if you got 1000s of guardians and bassilisks with you .. you are going down anyway...

Something seems very odd... i take it "tanked hulk" should be suicided by two battleships at least.. than its fine.. it figures..

Anyway get CONCORD in line with law and order focrec of real world... You suicided before you go in system .. you get in ship which can suicide something and is fitted accordingly.. they will get info since station will sent your fit to them, or you get scanned on gate, or followed by CONCORD covops to do the scanning, and response time to your aggression is actuall warp time from CONCORD current possition to your location. Still enough to kill an hulk with gank tornado... but probably not enough to kill it with dessie.


In the real world sorry to break this to you but the average time for real life cops response time is 20 minutes. And just like in real life... the cops get there too late. Concord response time should be based on real life cops tba. It might be better then rl cops response time but still too fast to be realistic. Nobody knows the INSTANT a crime has been done unless they have a bandana and a crystal ball. Roll
Arthur Frayn
V.O.F.L IRON CORE
#25 - 2011-11-07 11:39:16 UTC
Use an insured covetor. Keep a dozen spares around. Problem solved. Hulk is a waste of money when ganks are factored in.
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2011-11-07 11:40:09 UTC
Alxea wrote:

In the real world sorry to break this to you but the average time for real life cops response time is 20 minutes. And just like in real life... the cops get there too late. Concord response time should be based on real life cops tba. It might be better then rl cops response time but still too fast to be realistic. Nobody knows the INSTANT a crime has been done unless they have a bandana and a crystal ball. Roll


uh-huh..

So you assault someone .. that one survives and knows perfectly your name... Since you use stations and star gates the authorities knows perfectly where you at any given time... Go figure how far you would go in real life, if that would be true.

Probably one jump before you get killed by police.

And lets say you are known criminal .. the authorities knows perfectly where you at and what you fly... since you are famous criminal you will get shot pre-emptively .. ... or at least followed everywhere at any given time..


Sirinda
Ekchuah's Shrine Comporium
#27 - 2011-11-07 12:27:06 UTC
Eh, have Concord pod gankers as well. It's not like they can be killed, so capital punishment is indeed an option to make them think about their ways.


/thread
seany1212
M Y S T
#28 - 2011-11-07 12:50:40 UTC
Hulks dont need a buff to there tank, its just everyone who flys them is too stupid to fit a Damage Control II, they'd rather use there precious low slots for mining upgrades or expanded cargoholds. Fools and there isk are easily parted and need to stop QQing on the forums about it Roll
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2011-11-07 12:52:59 UTC
seany1212 wrote:
Hulks dont need a buff to there tank, its just everyone who flys them is too stupid to fit a Damage Control II, they'd rather use there precious low slots for mining upgrades or expanded cargoholds. Fools and there isk are easily parted and need to stop QQing on the forums about it Roll

Fitting a DC II makes hulks invulnerable?

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
seany1212
M Y S T
#30 - 2011-11-07 13:00:26 UTC  |  Edited by: seany1212
Ladie Harlot wrote:
seany1212 wrote:
Hulks dont need a buff to there tank, its just everyone who flys them is too stupid to fit a Damage Control II, they'd rather use there precious low slots for mining upgrades or expanded cargoholds. Fools and there isk are easily parted and need to stop QQing on the forums about it Roll

Fitting a DC II makes hulks invulnerable?


Of course not, but considering it nearly doubles the effective HP on a hulk you'd have thought people would be more wise to it. That plus some hardeners and you get a pretty sizeable tank that could potentially stop an alpha from a bs.

Also, nearly a hundred pages proving my point:

Hulkageddon 3
sinsivire
Sega Enterprises
#31 - 2011-11-07 13:03:18 UTC
all these discussions are not needed as long as the insurance system is not being fixed.

If the insurance would be more realistic, there would not be so many useless (for the fun of it) high sec kills.

In real life if you buy a car. and you crash it while it is insured completely you get most of your money back unless the police tells the insurance company that you used your car for killing other cars. in that scenario, you don't get any money from the insurance company and you need to go to prison.

If you use your car and some pirate hits you but you can't find the pirate that hit your car you get money from a generic government insurance fund.

If you are just too stupid that you bump your car into wall now and then, you might end up with some very high insurance costs.

In the current scenario, there is no real financial penalty for aggressive behavior in areas where you should not have that aggressive behavior.

Once this is fixed, there are no real problems anymore. Gankers can still kill ships in high sec, but now they really need to keep in mind if the gank is worth the money and the hastle (insurance papers/police work).
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#32 - 2011-11-07 13:06:36 UTC
tanking your industrial ship is your task, not CCPs - you have all tools at your disposal to do this.
seany1212
M Y S T
#33 - 2011-11-07 13:07:12 UTC
sinsivire wrote:
all these discussions are not needed as long as the insurance system is not being fixed.

If the insurance would be more realistic, there would not be so many useless (for the fun of it) high sec kills.

In real life if you buy a car. and you crash it while it is insured completely you get most of your money back unless the police tells the insurance company that you used your car for killing other cars. in that scenario, you don't get any money from the insurance company and you need to go to prison.

If you use your car and some pirate hits you but you can't find the pirate that hit your car you get money from a generic government insurance fund.

If you are just too stupid that you bump your car into wall now and then, you might end up with some very high insurance costs.

In the current scenario, there is no real financial penalty for aggressive behavior in areas where you should not have that aggressive behavior.

Once this is fixed, there are no real problems anymore. Gankers can still kill ships in high sec, but now they really need to keep in mind if the gank is worth the money and the hastle (insurance papers/police work).


Have you not checked out the test server? Gankers now get no insurance payout and still gain sec hit, dont know how close you want it Roll
Minta Contha
Emergent Entity
#34 - 2011-11-07 13:14:33 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Quote:
If you Nerf Concord, Tank up the HULK barges and industrials


Keep it so that sacrifices have to be made to make a tank but it would benefit all space for it to be possible to fend off a ganker long enough for Concord to arrive, for help in null sec, low sec or worm hole space to arrive from your corp / alliance.



That's what transport ships like the Mastodon are for. No need to beef up the lower end industrials.

I'm pretty much a hardcore miner and I am quite happy to say that I don't think any mining ships need to be changed. Your fitting options are limited, but you do have options, and if you are flying a hulk, then it should be a given that you can afford to replace it. Or as the other guy said, do it in a covetor, they are cheap as chips.

My cooking is like my lovemaking - fast, greasy, and unsatisfying.
sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade
Ghost Legion.
#35 - 2011-11-07 13:16:08 UTC  |  Edited by: sYnc Vir
seany1212 wrote:
Hulks dont need a buff to there tank, its just everyone who flys them is too stupid to fit a Damage Control II, they'd rather use there precious low slots for mining upgrades or expanded cargoholds. Fools and there isk are easily parted and need to stop QQing on the forums about it Roll


I fit a DC II, SSE II, Invul II, Mag II. I wont die to the 2 arty thrasher like the shield boosting idiots, I will die to the hurricanes. I get 20K EHP. I could improve that with a Bulk head II but yeild is yield.

Easier thing is wait for the first volley then store vessal in your orca and warp your pod out. Or better yet is Dscan alot and warp out the moment those thrasher gangs come a looking.

As for in general, the hulk does need a powergrid buff. However I said it before in other threads. That if hulks were to change they should be made into armor tankers with 4 highs 1 mid 4 lows. Forcing the miners to choose between Space, yield and tank. That way, a miner that complains he got ganked can be told, "Slap a 1600 plate on and you live" thus ending the forever spawning "I got ganked in high sec" threads. The extra high is for either a fourth mining lazor to help close the gap between L4 missions and Mining isk per hour, or a salvage for thos belt rats.

plus it would close the gap on the cost to gank isk level that eve currenly has. At the minute the cost of ganking a 200m Shield boosting hulk is around 2m isk. 1% of the the kill, that yields nice salvage. This is somewhat of an issue the increase in powergrid would end.

Don't ask about Italics, just tilt your head.
seany1212
M Y S T
#36 - 2011-11-07 13:23:15 UTC
sYnc Vir wrote:
seany1212 wrote:
Hulks dont need a buff to there tank, its just everyone who flys them is too stupid to fit a Damage Control II, they'd rather use there precious low slots for mining upgrades or expanded cargoholds. Fools and there isk are easily parted and need to stop QQing on the forums about it Roll


I fit a DC II, SSE II, Invul II, Mag II. I wont die to the 2 arty thrasher like the shield boosting idiots, I will die to the hurricanes. I get 20K EHP. I could improve that with a Bulk head II but yeild is yield.

Easier thing is wait for the first volley then store vessal in your orca and warp your pod out. Or better yet is Dscan alot and warp out the moment those thrasher gangs come a looking.

As for in general, the hulk does need a powergrid buff. However I said it before in other threads. That if hulks were to change they should be made into armor tankers with 4 highs 1 mid 4 lows. Forcing the miners to choose between Space, yield and tank. That way, a miner that complains he got ganked can be told, "Slap a 1600 plate on and you live" thus ending the forever spawning "I got ganked in high sec" threads. The extra high is for either a fourth mining lazor to help close the gap between L4 missions and Mining isk per hour, or a salvage for thos belt rats.

plus it would close the gap on the cost to gank isk level that eve currenly has. At the minute the cost of ganking a 200m Shield boosting hulk is around 2m isk. 1% of the the kill, that yields nice salvage. This is somewhat of an issue the increase in powergrid would end.


You just said yourself that you can tank against arty thrashers, so how does the cost of ganking to the ganker cost 2m isk? It comes down to how the pilot tanks it, if there foolish and in it for isk then yes, they can lose it at that cost, but if they're smart about it they can drive up the risk for the ganker. And of course you'll lose it to hurricanes, it comes down to whether one on one you'd be able to tank a single hurricane, because at the end of the day, you can tank more, but gankers will just bring more Twisted
sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade
Ghost Legion.
#37 - 2011-11-07 13:43:54 UTC  |  Edited by: sYnc Vir
seany1212 wrote:
sYnc Vir wrote:
seany1212 wrote:
Hulks dont need a buff to there tank, its just everyone who flys them is too stupid to fit a Damage Control II, they'd rather use there precious low slots for mining upgrades or expanded cargoholds. Fools and there isk are easily parted and need to stop QQing on the forums about it Roll


I fit a DC II, SSE II, Invul II, Mag II. I wont die to the 2 arty thrasher like the shield boosting idiots, I will die to the hurricanes. I get 20K EHP. I could improve that with a Bulk head II but yeild is yield.

Easier thing is wait for the first volley then store vessal in your orca and warp your pod out. Or better yet is Dscan alot and warp out the moment those thrasher gangs come a looking.

As for in general, the hulk does need a powergrid buff. However I said it before in other threads. That if hulks were to change they should be made into armor tankers with 4 highs 1 mid 4 lows. Forcing the miners to choose between Space, yield and tank. That way, a miner that complains he got ganked can be told, "Slap a 1600 plate on and you live" thus ending the forever spawning "I got ganked in high sec" threads. The extra high is for either a fourth mining lazor to help close the gap between L4 missions and Mining isk per hour, or a salvage for thos belt rats.

plus it would close the gap on the cost to gank isk level that eve currenly has. At the minute the cost of ganking a 200m Shield boosting hulk is around 2m isk. 1% of the the kill, that yields nice salvage. This is somewhat of an issue the increase in powergrid would end.


You just said yourself that you can tank against arty thrashers, so how does the cost of ganking to the ganker cost 2m isk? It comes down to how the pilot tanks it, if there foolish and in it for isk then yes, they can lose it at that cost, but if they're smart about it they can drive up the risk for the ganker. And of course you'll lose it to hurricanes, it comes down to whether one on one you'd be able to tank a single hurricane, because at the end of the day, you can tank more, but gankers will just bring more Twisted


No, means they just need 4, thrashers that is. Post buff that may even be three

Don't ask about Italics, just tilt your head.
Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#38 - 2011-11-07 13:57:32 UTC
Obsidian Hawk wrote:
Dont believe everything you read on the forums. at least 75% of the forums is bullshit of wild speculation and rumors.

Things to remember.

1. most posters are trolls and rumor mills
2. WHAT is on the test server IS NOT guarenteed to be in game. IT's a test server. CCP RESERVES the right to make changes at the last minute based on player feed back or other issues.

3. just put some shield extenders or some invuln fields on the hulk and you are fine or maybe put on a shield gang link the orca for more resists and ehp.

4. rigs are there for a reason. if you put on a em shield rig and explosive armor rig most gankers will be deterred.


This

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2011-11-07 14:19:56 UTC
anyway mining vessel should be "mammoths" of spaceships .. huge ehp.. something like mining carriers Big smile

Altho it will never happen cause of "bots"
Kitty McKitty
In Praise Of Shadows
#40 - 2011-11-07 15:15:44 UTC
There is already a hulk buff on TQ, it's called mining in a battleship.

#1, You don't lose that much income per hour.
#2. Less ganks will come your way since it takes more ships and expense for a less desirable killboard blip or isk return.

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