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First step to create a real bond market in EVE

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Adunh Slavy
#21 - 2013-06-14 20:58:46 UTC
Stocks and bonds, sure it would be nice, but this idea? No thanks.

ISK must maintain its, for the most part (nerf insurance), time/effort cost to produce. NPCs just magic printing it for no other reason than a player purchased a ticket for more free ISK is a bad idea.

ISK must be produced by player effort, end of story.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations
#22 - 2013-06-15 00:50:29 UTC

Let's try and get back on topic guys. The OP seems to have a good heart. But I suggest something little different.

CCP will never do this, so we must take it upon ourselves to create a trusted banking organization that can float the bonds. Not just anyone can do this though, so I immediately think of myself.

I propose creating a central bank. This bank will have regional banks reporting to it. Instead of doing everything from scratch, we'll utilize the major nullsec powers. Each will be responsible for their own areas, but final authority will rest with the central bank. To promote new ideas, voting powers will alternate between the various regional banks.

Let's discuss.

See Bio for isk doubling rules. If you didn't read bio, chances are you funded those who did.
Adunh Slavy
#23 - 2013-06-15 02:21:31 UTC
Erotica 1 wrote:

Let's discuss.



Who is this person and why are they talking?

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#24 - 2013-06-15 09:17:59 UTC
Syrk wrote:
OP must be a troll.

Solving an increase in money supply by selling bonds (creating an increase in the money supply)? And buying back high-interest bonds? Dude, do you work for the Federal Reserve?



This has to be.

Amarr *Frank*? Gallente *Mark*?

If anything Amarr should have Liras (they got something like a religious leader), Gallente are definitely for Francs and Minmatar Drachmas (duct tape held together republic).

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Alexander wulfgard
Korrupted Gaming
#25 - 2013-06-15 10:37:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Alexander wulfgard
I am not going to comment on some peoples hash statements like: "get out" or "this is a weird thing". If they do not have any real arguments I will only hope they will stay away from this thread in the future.


One argument some people have raised is the concern that players will receive interest on fixed income investments in government securities.


So let me ask those people, do you find it fair, not to get compensated for not having access to your money for a period of time? and do you not believe in Cost of Capital?


The real world works this way and I believe it would be beneficial to Eve if they adopted similar standards. Communism is gone so lets adopt the economic principles from the free world.


If we in the future would like to see a liberalised EVE banking sector, maybe even private player operated banks and free economy standards this suggestion is one small step in the right direction.

It will set standards for cost of capital and bring awareness to players of financial issues into the game.
Alexander wulfgard
Korrupted Gaming
#26 - 2013-06-15 10:47:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Alexander wulfgard
Syrk wrote:
OP must be a troll.

Solving an increase in money supply by selling bonds (creating an increase in the money supply)? And buying back high-interest bonds? Dude, do you work for the Federal Reserve?



Money held by state/central bank is not part of the money supply.
Hence if the state issue bonds (which is fully subscribed for) liquidity will be drained from the economy.
The money will be repaid to investors with interest eventually , but at this time new bonds will also be issued to cover the outstanding notional + interest and possible deficit. Again draining the liquidity from the economy.
This procedure can go on in perpetual as long as there is high enough demand for the securities. If investors stop having faith in the securities even with higher yield the central bank could buy the securities which instead would put pressure on the FX.

nb, I do not work for Federal Reserve, the treasury or any other central bank or government organisation.
Alexander wulfgard
Korrupted Gaming
#27 - 2013-06-15 10:52:54 UTC
Adunh Slavy wrote:
Stocks and bonds, sure it would be nice, but this idea? No thanks.

ISK must maintain its, for the most part (nerf insurance), time/effort cost to produce. NPCs just magic printing it for no other reason than a player purchased a ticket for more free ISK is a bad idea.

ISK must be produced by player effort, end of story.


If you want a free capital market this is the first baby step in this direction.
NPCs are already "magically printing" all ISK at the moment!
And as long as no free banking system exist all ISK will continue to be printed by NPCs.

ISK cannot be produced by player efforts in any way. Only its value are derrived from player operations like mining, R&D and manufacturing.
Speculation Dave
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#28 - 2013-06-15 10:54:28 UTC
Alexander wulfgard wrote:
I am not going to comment on some peoples hash statements

If you ignore those then this thread has no content at all.

What is the point of making so many posts about stuff that has already been done, even if you pretend it hasnt, if we cant ridicule you for it?
arabella blood
Keyboard Jihad
#29 - 2013-06-15 11:03:03 UTC
Listen, they called from the goverment, they want you back...

Troll for hire. Cheap prices.

Alexander wulfgard
Korrupted Gaming
#30 - 2013-06-15 11:05:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Alexander wulfgard
Erotica 1 wrote:

Let's try and get back on topic guys. The OP seems to have a good heart. But I suggest something little different.

CCP will never do this, so we must take it upon ourselves to create a trusted banking organization that can float the bonds. Not just anyone can do this though, so I immediately think of myself.

I propose creating a central bank. This bank will have regional banks reporting to it. Instead of doing everything from scratch, we'll utilize the major nullsec powers. Each will be responsible for their own areas, but final authority will rest with the central bank. To promote new ideas, voting powers will alternate between the various regional banks.

Let's discuss.



Yes perhaps CCP will never adopt this approach and there could be many reasons for this. Maybe programming costs will be to high, maybe other projects seems more imminent and many many more.
I still believe its important to have the discussion about this topic as Eve is one of the few games which actually do try to incorporate lots of real world standards and practises.

Obviously CCP have made its own thoughts about the economic climate, they used to publish the Quarterly Economic Newsletter and still have Dr. Eyjolfur Gudmundsson on their payroll.

I like the idea of the creation of active central bank which is consistent what I was proposing as well. It would be the natural first step before creating 4. With the 1 central bank created it will lay the foundation of player operated banks in the future.
arabella blood
Keyboard Jihad
#31 - 2013-06-15 11:08:28 UTC
Alexander wulfgard wrote:
Erotica 1 wrote:

Let's try and get back on topic guys. The OP seems to have a good heart. But I suggest something little different.

CCP will never do this, so we must take it upon ourselves to create a trusted banking organization that can float the bonds. Not just anyone can do this though, so I immediately think of myself.

I propose creating a central bank. This bank will have regional banks reporting to it. Instead of doing everything from scratch, we'll utilize the major nullsec powers. Each will be responsible for their own areas, but final authority will rest with the central bank. To promote new ideas, voting powers will alternate between the various regional banks.

Let's discuss.



Yes perhaps CCP will never adopt this approach and there could be many reasons for this. Maybe programming costs will be to high, maybe other projects seems more imminent and many many more.
I still believe its important to have the discussion about this topic though as Eve is one of the few games which actually do try to incorporate lots of real world standards and practises.

Obviously CCP have made its own thoughts about the economic climate, they use to publish the Quarterly Economic Newsletter and still have Dr. Eyjolfur Gudmundsson on their payroll.

I like the idea of the creation of active central bank which is consistent what I was proposing as well. It would be the natural first step before creating 4. With the 1 central bank created it will lay the foundation of player operated banks in the future.


WE DONT WANT PLAYER OPERATED BANKS!!!
It didn't go so well last time, and its probably a scam...

Troll for hire. Cheap prices.

Alexander wulfgard
Korrupted Gaming
#32 - 2013-06-15 11:16:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Alexander wulfgard
Quote:

WE DONT WANT PLAYER OPERATED BANKS!!!
It didn't go so well last time, and its probably a scam...



I do not believe you speak for all players in EVE.
So the best you can say is that YOU dont want player opereated banks.

Your argument seem to rest on past experiences, where the bank was in fact not a bank, but a scam.
And I agree, under the current rules, regulations and optionality of the game it is very hard to operate a real bank. This however do not need to be the rule of the future.
arabella blood
Keyboard Jihad
#33 - 2013-06-15 11:28:23 UTC
Alexander wulfgard wrote:
Quote:

WE DONT WANT PLAYER OPERATED BANKS!!!
It didn't go so well last time, and its probably a scam...



I do not believe you speak for all players in EVE.
So the best you can say is that YOU dont want player opereated banks.

Your argument seem to rest on past experiences, where the bank was in fact not a bank, but a scam.
And I agree, under the current rules, regulations and optionality of the game it is very hard to operate a real bank. This however do not need to be the rule of the future.


And now we see the TIN FOIL HAT: OP just wants to open a new bank.... (cough *scam*)

So you offer us a system where we will have not scam banks, but normal ones, same as we have in RL, the ones we all hate..great..

BTW, They called from the RL bank, they want their floor cleaner back..you run boy gogo...

Troll for hire. Cheap prices.

RAW23
#34 - 2013-06-15 11:36:26 UTC
Alexander wulfgard wrote:
I am not going to comment on some peoples hash statements like: "get out" or "this is a weird thing". If they do not have any real arguments I will only hope they will stay away from this thread in the future.




You clearly have as little experience of eve's forums as you do of its economy.

There are two types of EVE player:

those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not.
Alexander wulfgard
Korrupted Gaming
#35 - 2013-06-15 11:41:08 UTC
arabella blood wrote:

And now we see the TIN FOIL HAT: OP just wants to open a new bank.... (cough *scam*)

So you offer us a system where we will have not scam banks, but normal ones, same as we have in RL, the ones we all hate..great..

BTW, They called from the RL bank, they want their floor cleaner back..you run boy gogo...


Are you part of the weirdos in the occupy wall street movement??
I suggest you go back to your park with all the other criminals who just want free stuff and live off the government tit.


I offer a free system which gives opportunities to everyone who wants to put ideas into action and create a brigther future for themselves.
Alexander wulfgard
Korrupted Gaming
#36 - 2013-06-15 11:55:49 UTC
RAW23 your posts show that you as a person have very limited personal qualities and no qualifications.
This is properly due to your young age. I suggest that we speak again once you at least have a high school diploma - So contact me again in 6 years time.
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#37 - 2013-06-15 12:02:48 UTC
Alexander wulfgard wrote:
RAW23 your posts show that you as a person have very limited personal qualities and no qualifications.

Now this thread is going places.
arabella blood
Keyboard Jihad
#38 - 2013-06-15 12:08:50 UTC
Alexander wulfgard wrote:
arabella blood wrote:

And now we see the TIN FOIL HAT: OP just wants to open a new bank.... (cough *scam*)

So you offer us a system where we will have not scam banks, but normal ones, same as we have in RL, the ones we all hate..great..

BTW, They called from the RL bank, they want their floor cleaner back..you run boy gogo...


Are you part of the weirdos in the occupy wall street movement??
I suggest you go back to your park with all the other criminals who just want free stuff and live off the government tit.


I offer a free system which gives opportunities to everyone who wants to put ideas into action and create a brigther future for themselves.






Im not american..So you one of the guys inside Wallstreet?

Brighter future?? now where did i heard that before...

Troll for hire. Cheap prices.

RAW23
#39 - 2013-06-15 12:25:57 UTC
Alexander wulfgard wrote:
RAW23 your posts show that you as a person have very limited personal qualities and no qualifications.
This is properly due to your young age. I suggest that we speak again once you at least have a high school diploma - So contact me again in 6 years time.


Lol

Thanks. I've been having a rough day and I really needed that.

There are two types of EVE player:

those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#40 - 2013-06-15 16:41:33 UTC
Bad Bobby wrote:
Alexander wulfgard wrote:
RAW23 your posts show that you as a person have very limited personal qualities and no qualifications.

Now this thread is going places.


Totally. Lol

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