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ISK devaluation
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Elliavir
Miskatonic Mercantile
#41 - 2013-06-15 01:03:43 UTC
Linna Baresi wrote:
I honestly don't know how it is for the older players, but as a new player, I do think there's some hyperinflation going on. If I compare the tier 1 mission rewards to the prices I see in the market... there seems to be a discrepancy between new player earning capacity and going rates for even the more basic necessities, let alone the slightly more advanced skillbooks (mining connections: 20 million... ouch).


I just started a new alt so I'd have someone who doesn't get shot at hauling stuff through Caldarri and Amarr space, and I didn't give them any stuff or ISK to start, and I find that alt pretty comfortably well off.

Some skillbooks - such as the Mining Connections you mention - are available for a combination of ISK and loyalty points. I've previously purchased stuff this way, and I've found I usually have the required ISK by the time I have the loyalty points, even if I'm just running missions for the agent in question.
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2013-06-15 01:38:43 UTC
Linna Baresi wrote:
I honestly don't know how it is for the older players, but as a new player, I do think there's some hyperinflation going on. If I compare the tier 1 mission rewards to the prices I see in the market... there seems to be a discrepancy between new player earning capacity and going rates for even the more basic necessities, let alone the slightly more advanced skillbooks (mining connections: 20 million... ouch).


Sweetheart, there's always been a discrepancy. Anything you fly is pocket change for most of us. Hell, I remember working my arse off to afford a retriever. Now, if I was inclined, which I'm not, I could buy as many as I wanted and not think twice about it. It's like that most ships until I get into caps and faction fit ships, then I have to weigh cost/benefit.

So really, there isn't a discrepancy. Until you get to Nullsec where the moons are paved with gold.

As for inflation? At least for the industry I do, prices have gone down since odyssey. It's the same for a lot of other things in game. So, you might start to see a drop, if you haven't already, further down the production chain.

Don't ban me, bro!
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#43 - 2013-06-15 02:08:54 UTC
Number 17 wrote:
How much has the ISK devaluated since 2010? I have just came back and I'm shocked!
Is it easier to make isk now?


About 50%.

Was shocked as well when returning. Back then PLEX was around 250m ISK, now it's getting close to 600m.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#44 - 2013-06-15 02:14:02 UTC
Can you name a game (with expansions) that's seen less inflation/year?
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#45 - 2013-06-15 02:17:29 UTC
Q 5 wrote:
Here we go with another troll thread with muppets clearly in tow.

I run missions....lets see....I must have missed the 100 million isk mission clearly my agents are plopping doo doo on me.

And no, we are not going to go to low sec or null no matter what ideal you think will work, for the love of feeceees just gank your ships and take the status hit like a real pirate and stop trying to call yourself warriors.


And considering all the standing grindings that needs to be done if you're a tradeskiller (which a whole other side of EvE, and IMHO, it's best side).

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell
Darth Khasei
Wavestar Business Ventures Inc.
#46 - 2013-06-15 02:30:48 UTC
Respect. Cool

I see people are still LYING about how much isk they actually make running missions. Well I guess that makes sense for people trying to get missions nerfed even more.


Carry on. Roll
Oggat
The Adam's Family
#47 - 2013-06-15 02:46:31 UTC
iskflakes wrote:
I would randomly guess ISK is worth half as much as it was in 2010.

ISK faucets need to be nerfed, very hard (not just highsec either).



Faucets haven't changed much.

They need sinks and they don't need them in Null. If it wasn't for Sov bills the game would be in economic tatters. I say that as a high sec player. I also don't expect anything to change because CCP are hell bent on leather to make hi Sec be a 'bad place' where care bears live. Just like Null will never give up their hi sec alts on the false premise of risk vs reward, true hi sec players won't be roped in to ISK sinks that don't improve their asset worth.
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#48 - 2013-06-15 03:35:20 UTC
Oggat wrote:
iskflakes wrote:
I would randomly guess ISK is worth half as much as it was in 2010.

ISK faucets need to be nerfed, very hard (not just highsec either).



Faucets haven't changed much.


And that's the real problem.

CCP is going through what Blizzard is currently going through with it's latest PvP nerf -- trying to attract players to PvP. In WoW it's base resilience to anyone so they can "hop in" to PvP encounters.

Problem is they can lead a horse to water but they can't force the horse to drink it.

PvE players will simply hunker down and find other PvE alternatives and won't be baited out. If CCP or Blizzard turns the screws too tight, players just mothball their accounts and hop into another PvE friendly game (I'm mothballing WoW next month due to the PvP changes ironically...ruined the last remaining fun thing to do in the game by taking the harder work = better rewards out of MMOs. Used to long term character development not level 90s in decent gear in less than a week, and so generic they're no different than a FPS toon).

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell
Steirmann
Interstellar Machines
#49 - 2013-06-15 04:45:31 UTC
Thread is irrelevant. Inflation is not serious issue. Stuff was always expensive for noobs. eve is hard. Bounties are the biggest issue and nullsec bounties are an ISK xerox machine. CCP knows where the ISK does from better than dimwit form economists, and everyone knows that TG is a supermassive troll.
Oggat
The Adam's Family
#50 - 2013-06-15 07:10:02 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Oggat wrote:
iskflakes wrote:
I would randomly guess ISK is worth half as much as it was in 2010.

ISK faucets need to be nerfed, very hard (not just highsec either).



Faucets haven't changed much.


And that's the real problem.

CCP is going through what Blizzard is currently going through with it's latest PvP nerf -- trying to attract players to PvP. In WoW it's base resilience to anyone so they can "hop in" to PvP encounters.

Problem is they can lead a horse to water but they can't force the horse to drink it.

PvE players will simply hunker down and find other PvE alternatives and won't be baited out. If CCP or Blizzard turns the screws too tight, players just mothball their accounts and hop into another PvE friendly game (I'm mothballing WoW next month due to the PvP changes ironically...ruined the last remaining fun thing to do in the game by taking the harder work = better rewards out of MMOs. Used to long term character development not level 90s in decent gear in less than a week, and so generic they're no different than a FPS toon).


In the case of EVE it has been pointed out multiple times, PvP is a faucet, not a sink. I get insurance from every loss. I might give ISK to someone else and have less but it never left the game. Using PvP to sink ISK only works if I buy my ships from seeded NPC sources. It's pretty much why we are seeing the trend of faction navy hulls. The LP store cost to bring a Navy ship in to game is higher than other hulls when compared to base insurance.
Number 17
COLD-Wing
#51 - 2013-06-15 07:41:47 UTC
I started this thread because at some point I used to buy plexes and keep playing by mission running in high sec, or ratting in null. I could afford a plex each month and some extra isk for ships to blow up. Now i see that impossible with plexes being about +120% of what they used to be.
Gordon Esil
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#52 - 2013-06-15 07:53:27 UTC
Tom Gerard wrote:

I can complete a level 4 mission that pays 3.5m in completion with another 1.5 in bonus, and 11k LP in under 22 minutes. Add in the fact the loot can sell to reprocessors for ~100m in loot/bounties.

I can get in two of these missions in an hour without much stress at all.

200m
7m
3m
22k * 2k = 44m

I consider myself an average mission runner so thats:
254m/hour

ShockedShockedShockedShocked
I'm sorry but those numbers are way and insanely OFF
I spent my time doing missions to the point I hated every single agent in EVE
Speak of 100 mill per hour, that can go... BUT 250 MILLION... I'M SORRY BUT I DID NOT SEE EVEN FW FARMERS MAKE THAT MUCH IN ""1"" HOUR
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#53 - 2013-06-15 08:23:36 UTC
Oggat wrote:
In the case of EVE it has been pointed out multiple times, PvP is a faucet, not a sink. I get insurance from every loss.


Insurance rarely covers the real value of the ships (unless you're fighting in a T1 frigate or destroyer), so it is a ISK sink.

Even with premium insurance there's still 20+mil lost in value, and it doesn't cover the loss of equipment. For a vet who can stockpile stuff maybe he has spares left, but for the rest, it costs too much.

Those PvPing a lot in low/null and not part of TEST or Goons, build their own to help defray the costs. Otherwise they're out of luck, as being down a ship for a day isn't fun.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell
Josef Djugashvilis
#54 - 2013-06-15 08:31:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Josef Djugashvilis
Tom Gerard wrote:
Number 17 wrote:
How much has the ISK devaluated since 2010? I have just came back and I'm shocked!
Is it easier to make isk now?


I can complete a level 4 mission that pays 3.5m in completion with another 1.5 in bonus, and 11k LP in under 22 minutes. Add in the fact the loot can sell to reprocessors for ~100m in loot/bounties.

I can get in two of these missions in an hour without much stress at all.

200m
7m
3m
22k * 2k = 44m

I consider myself an average mission runner so thats:
254m/hour


I am curious, which lvl 4 missions pay 11k LP?

Oh, and the usual, I earn (insert desired fantasy figure) millions an hour using my Velator ( insert desired fantasy skill points total here, but it must not be more than 2 million) armed with mining lazors to run level 4 missions.

This is not a signature.
Sipphakta en Gravonere
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#55 - 2013-06-15 08:42:04 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Oggat wrote:
In the case of EVE it has been pointed out multiple times, PvP is a faucet, not a sink. I get insurance from every loss.


Insurance rarely covers the real value of the ships (unless you're fighting in a T1 frigate or destroyer), so it is a ISK sink.


Player A has 100M ISK
Player B has a fitted Battleship
Total ISK: 100M

Now Player A buys the BS:

Player A has a fitted Battleship
Player B has 100M-Taxes.
Total ISK: 100M-Taxes

Now Player A's BS gets destroyed:

Player A has 60M Insurance ISK
Player B has 100M-Taxes
Total ISK: 160M-Taxes

Conclusion: Insurance is an ISK faucet.
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#56 - 2013-06-15 08:48:56 UTC
Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:
Conclusion: Insurance is an ISK faucet.


If your conclusion is true, why doesn't CCP just hands out free ships?

Because death must = a consequence.

Conclusion: Someone is paying someone for the loss.

And ISK doesn't grow on trees...

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell
Josef Djugashvilis
#57 - 2013-06-15 08:52:15 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:
Conclusion: Insurance is an ISK faucet.


If your conclusion is true, why doesn't CCP just hands out free ships?

Because death must = a consequence.

Conclusion: Someone is paying someone for the loss.

And ISK doesn't grow on trees...


Isk grows from the barrel of a gun.

With apologies to Chairman Mao.Smile

This is not a signature.
OldWolf69
EVE-RO
Goonswarm Federation
#58 - 2013-06-15 08:54:06 UTC
Alternate Poster wrote:
edit: How does CCP break a POST?

CCP does not break a post. They usually break a wish. Or more.Lol
Sipphakta en Gravonere
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#59 - 2013-06-15 08:59:29 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:
Conclusion: Insurance is an ISK faucet.


If your conclusion is true, why doesn't CCP just hands out free ships?

Because death must = a consequence.

Conclusion: Someone is paying someone for the loss.

And ISK doesn't grow on trees...


The economy doesn't care for your personal wallet. While YOU have less ISK after being destroyed and after you bought back your ship/modules, the ECONOMY has more ISK in it - making ISK less valueable.
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries
#60 - 2013-06-15 11:30:34 UTC
Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Oggat wrote:
In the case of EVE it has been pointed out multiple times, PvP is a faucet, not a sink. I get insurance from every loss.


Insurance rarely covers the real value of the ships (unless you're fighting in a T1 frigate or destroyer), so it is a ISK sink.


Player A has 100M ISK
Player B has a fitted Battleship
Total ISK: 100M

Now Player A buys the BS:

Player A has a fitted Battleship
Player B has 100M-Taxes.
Total ISK: 100M-Taxes

Now Player A's BS gets destroyed:

Player A has 60M Insurance ISK
Player B has 100M-Taxes
Total ISK: 160M-Taxes

Conclusion: Insurance is an ISK faucet.

Only if Player B was granted that 100M fitted battleship from whatever gods that might be around.

While I'd love to find that tree that hand hands me ripe and fitted battleships, I still haven't found it.

CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.