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Advances in Planetary Interaction & Useful NPCs [Dust 514 Tie In]

Author
Gareth Burns
GeoCorp.
The Initiative.
#1 - 2013-06-13 18:35:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Gareth Burns
Here's my lovely idea.

Arrow The ability to buy NPC workers and utilize military personnel to defend PI installments.

New Eden is full of common folk looking for work, who better then rich and powerful Capsuleers to hire them?

This would add a variety of NPC's that can perform various tasks for you. Mainly my idea is to use them for semi-automation of Planetary Interaction. Skilled workers giving a small boost to resource extraction or a time bonus to material production.

Examples:
☼ Core Engineer giving a boost to power-grid & CPU output
☼ Logistics Coordinator giving a boost to link efficiency and transfer times
☼ Resource Overseer giving a boost to resource extraction
☼ Factory Technician giving a boost to production speed
☼ Planetary Manager granting the ability to automate transfer of materials* & re-installing resource acquisition programs

* Managers can automatically transport materials to storage facilities on the planet to prevent overflow of Launchpads and storage facilities. They cannot transfer materials off planet.

Military personnel are used to defend against Dust 514 raid missions against your planetary supplies. During a raid you would be unable to control any part of that planets interaction systems until the raid was over. This would basically be an objective based PvE mode for Dust 514 players, and a way for them to steal resources from players.


Command Center Slots:
Level I Command Center : One Worker Slot : Five Military Slots
Level II Command Center : Two Worker Slots : Ten Military Slots
Level III Command Center : Three Worker Slots : Fifteen Military Slots
Level IV Command Center : Four Worker Slots : Twenty Military Slots
Level V Command Center : Five Worker Slots : Twenty Five Military Slots

How does that look for Military Slots?

Let me know what you guys think about this.

Criticism is welcome!

EDIT:
Removed monthly salary idea for workers. To difficult to implement.
Added the Dust 514 military aspect.

Noblesse Oblige ► Gareth Burns

Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#2 - 2013-06-13 18:37:24 UTC
I would be delighted if I didn't have to keep restarting my resource extractors. It's annoying to set them and then forget that they've stopped and lose a week of production. I suppose it's my own fault, but as long as we're talking about suggestions I kind of like it.
Ioci
Bad Girl Posse
#3 - 2013-06-13 18:55:42 UTC
And I'd support this strictly on the implementation level.

If they could make a system that allowed us to have Planetary Industrial workers, they could augment it to allow us to have Planetary armies and apply them to Dust interaction. Once the system is there, it's roles and having Marines on the ground to defend our Planetary Industrial facilities means Dusties can try and attack them.

PvP through PvE interaction, us making the armies for them to fight. Intelligent PvE.

R.I.P. Vile Rat

Gareth Burns
GeoCorp.
The Initiative.
#4 - 2013-06-13 19:04:17 UTC
Ioci wrote:
And I'd support this strictly on the implementation level.

If they could make a system that allowed us to have Planetary Industrial workers, they could augment it to allow us to have Planetary armies and apply them to Dust interaction. Once the system is there, it's roles and having Marines on the ground to defend our Planetary Industrial facilities means Dusties can try and attack them.

PvP through PvE interaction, us making the armies for them to fight. Intelligent PvE.



I had thought about this as well.

Not only would this advance Planetary Interaction and Dust 514, it would also give a use to those marines, and Kamieras personally, we all have laying around.

Noblesse Oblige ► Gareth Burns

Ioci
Bad Girl Posse
#5 - 2013-06-13 19:45:14 UTC
Among other things.

Most of the Consumer products in EVE have no use and seeds are far too low for the typical Capsuleer but a Dust player could loot them and make a lucrative business out of it. You or I might discard 500 units of Dairy Product but a Dust player would see it as a score. Attacking my Livestock PI facility for it would be very much on the table for them.

Everything is there for the system to work. It's just a matter of making it happen.

R.I.P. Vile Rat

Gareth Burns
GeoCorp.
The Initiative.
#6 - 2013-06-13 20:12:47 UTC
I like the concept of a raid mission in Dust.

This would also lead to players being more cautious about stockpiling resources on planets for to long. Now I would have to retract my idea of being able to automatically export off planets and stick with the automatically routing resources to storage facilities. This way you have to manually pull your resources off the planet to protect them from these raids. Additionally you would get military slots depending on level of Command Center to help defend your stockpiles.

Imagine a Dust raiding party getting a hold of a cache of Integrity Response Drones. Definitely worth it.


Noblesse Oblige ► Gareth Burns

Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#7 - 2013-06-13 21:52:35 UTC
I do not like the idea of anything that gives other players the ability to steal my stuff with no way for me to react, preserve my possessions or stop them. Explain to me why people should be able to steal my stuff and why I should not be able to directly prevent them from doing so.
Gareth Burns
GeoCorp.
The Initiative.
#8 - 2013-06-14 14:54:48 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
I do not like the idea of anything that gives other players the ability to steal my stuff with no way for me to react, preserve my possessions or stop them. Explain to me why people should be able to steal my stuff and why I should not be able to directly prevent them from doing so.



I definitely get that. My thoughts were you wouldn't be able to pull resources off the planet during a raid, but you could do the following.

☼ Military to repel raids. This is more of a preventative measure but balancing would allow it to be effective.
☼ DUST Mercs in your corporation can be dropped into defense of your supplies.
☼ Mercs can request orbital bombardments to help you protect your supplies.

If that isn't enough perhaps the ability to buy defensive equipment for storage facilities & launchpads. Such as turrets, tanks, etc..

Noblesse Oblige ► Gareth Burns

Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#9 - 2013-06-14 21:25:27 UTC
Gareth Burns wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
I do not like the idea of anything that gives other players the ability to steal my stuff with no way for me to react, preserve my possessions or stop them. Explain to me why people should be able to steal my stuff and why I should not be able to directly prevent them from doing so.



I definitely get that. My thoughts were you wouldn't be able to pull resources off the planet during a raid, but you could do the following.

☼ Military to repel raids. This is more of a preventative measure but balancing would allow it to be effective.
☼ DUST Mercs in your corporation can be dropped into defense of your supplies.
☼ Mercs can request orbital bombardments to help you protect your supplies.

If that isn't enough perhaps the ability to buy defensive equipment for storage facilities & launchpads. Such as turrets, tanks, etc..



Not a single one of those is a way for me personally to directly prevent the theft of my stuff. Why should people be able to steal my stuff in such a way that I cannot, in any way, shape or form, prevent them from doing so myself?
Adunh Slavy
#10 - 2013-06-15 02:33:39 UTC
I like teh basic idea of having workers and 'boss' types, specialists and what not. I think that's what a lot of people were hoping PI was going to be. We should have to feed and house them, keep them 'happy/content' or they burn the place down kinda thing.

Instead, we got ... pins.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt

Siobhan MacLeary
Doomheim
#11 - 2013-06-15 03:30:32 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
[quote=Gareth Burns]Why should people be able to steal my stuff in such a way that I cannot, in any way, shape or form, prevent them from doing so myself?


Steal stuff that would, with the implementation of this mechanic, require very little input on your part and a few million ISK in investment. Stuff that just appears from the aether with no interaction on your part except telling it to appear.

Point out to me a person who has been harmed by an AFK cloaker and I will point out a person who has no business playing this game.” - CCP Soundwave

Gareth Burns
GeoCorp.
The Initiative.
#12 - 2013-06-17 16:38:46 UTC
Siobhan MacLeary wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
[quote=Gareth Burns]Why should people be able to steal my stuff in such a way that I cannot, in any way, shape or form, prevent them from doing so myself?


Steal stuff that would, with the implementation of this mechanic, require very little input on your part and a few million ISK in investment. Stuff that just appears from the aether with no interaction on your part except telling it to appear.



Agreed,

Especially because everything would be able to be automated. All you would have to to is pull the stuff off planet if you did it right. Most things you do in EVE have a chance of *someone stealing your stuff*. I can't ask for the ability to automate everything in regards to planetary extraction without having some sort of risk involved in leaving planets to do their own thing for to long.

Noblesse Oblige ► Gareth Burns

Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#13 - 2013-06-17 21:57:54 UTC
Gareth Burns wrote:
Siobhan MacLeary wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
[quote=Gareth Burns]Why should people be able to steal my stuff in such a way that I cannot, in any way, shape or form, prevent them from doing so myself?


Steal stuff that would, with the implementation of this mechanic, require very little input on your part and a few million ISK in investment. Stuff that just appears from the aether with no interaction on your part except telling it to appear.



Agreed,

Especially because everything would be able to be automated. All you would have to to is pull the stuff off planet if you did it right. Most things you do in EVE have a chance of *someone stealing your stuff*. I can't ask for the ability to automate everything in regards to planetary extraction without having some sort of risk involved in leaving planets to do their own thing for to long.




Wait, what?

So, because PI is an AFK activity, it should be physically impossible for me to defend my assets?

Explain.



And yes, most things carry a risk of someone stealing my stuff. The thing is, those things ALSO have ways for me to directly prevent them. Your idea does not, you do not want me to be able to defend my assets at all. You need to explain exactly why that is a good thing.
Gareth Burns
GeoCorp.
The Initiative.
#14 - 2013-06-18 13:56:05 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:


Wait, what?

So, because PI is an AFK activity, it should be physically impossible for me to defend my assets?

Explain.

And yes, most things carry a risk of someone stealing my stuff. The thing is, those things ALSO have ways for me to directly prevent them. Your idea does not, you do not want me to be able to defend my assets at all. You need to explain exactly why that is a good thing.


Please refer to the previous two points I made:

☼ DUST Mercs in your corporation can be dropped into defense of your supplies.
☼ Mercs can request orbital bombardments to help you protect your supplies.


This would allow you to directly affect the Dust 514 raid battles, by either playing Dust 514 and DIRECTLY fighting against the raid. Or taking a ship in EVE and bombarding the hell out of the raiding Mercenaries.

Not sure how much more direct you can get then that.

You have a way to preemptively set up defenses and actively defend your resources. Therefor my idea does give you ways to directly prevent stealing and defend in-case preventative measures are not enough.

Noblesse Oblige ► Gareth Burns

Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#15 - 2013-06-18 23:31:40 UTC
Gareth Burns wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:


Wait, what?

So, because PI is an AFK activity, it should be physically impossible for me to defend my assets?

Explain.

And yes, most things carry a risk of someone stealing my stuff. The thing is, those things ALSO have ways for me to directly prevent them. Your idea does not, you do not want me to be able to defend my assets at all. You need to explain exactly why that is a good thing.


Please refer to the previous two points I made:

☼ DUST Mercs in your corporation can be dropped into defense of your supplies.
☼ Mercs can request orbital bombardments to help you protect your supplies.


This would allow you to directly affect the Dust 514 raid battles, by either playing Dust 514 and DIRECTLY fighting against the raid. Or taking a ship in EVE and bombarding the hell out of the raiding Mercenaries.

Not sure how much more direct you can get then that.

You have a way to preemptively set up defenses and actively defend your resources. Therefor my idea does give you ways to directly prevent stealing and defend in-case preventative measures are not enough.



Neither using dust mercs, nor using orbital bombardments (Which need to be called in by said mercs) are direct interaction. You do NOT give me a way, entirely inside the EVE client, to defend my stuff. Setting up defences beforehand does not allow me to directly defend my stuff.

EXPLAIN why my stuff should be able to be stolen from a planet deep in friendly SOV, with a POCO owned by my alliance, while I am at work. Repeatedly saying 'But you can get someone else to do it!!!11' is not an explanation, nor a method of defending my stuff.

As an aside, while I do occasionally play DUST, my dustbunny is not in this corp, so I wouldn't be able to do anything. And also, what about all the EVE players who don't even own a ps3?
Sans Sonic Leon
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2013-06-18 23:55:57 UTC
Have DUST Mercs increase PI in hisec by making them gather resources and paying them minimum wage.
Gareth Burns
GeoCorp.
The Initiative.
#17 - 2013-06-19 13:36:16 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:


Neither using dust mercs, nor using orbital bombardments (Which need to be called in by said mercs) are direct interaction. You do NOT give me a way, entirely inside the EVE client, to defend my stuff. Setting up defences beforehand does not allow me to directly defend my stuff.

EXPLAIN why my stuff should be able to be stolen from a planet deep in friendly SOV, with a POCO owned by my alliance, while I am at work. Repeatedly saying 'But you can get someone else to do it!!!11' is not an explanation, nor a method of defending my stuff.

As an aside, while I do occasionally play DUST, my dustbunny is not in this corp, so I wouldn't be able to do anything. And also, what about all the EVE players who don't even own a ps3?


Alrighty then,

In literal definition of 'direct' interaction you are mostly right, except for when you press that button to do the orbital bombardment. However, the combination of the three things I have mentioned should give you plenty of ability to defend your few million in planetary resources.

"But you can get someone else to do it", as you have quoted me saying in apparent whiny voice for some reason, is in definition a method of defending your 'stuff'. When a fleet of dreads comes down to POS bash your POS do you go out by yourself and then complain because you lost? I assume not, I assume your corp gets together a response fleet. When a group of dust mercenaries come to raid your resources you can't rely on just yourself to fend them off.

"my dustbunny is not in the corp, so i wouldn't be able to do anything." Simple solution; put your dustbunny in the corp. Additionally, not all corps are created equal. Some will be better at Dust Merc integration then others. If you want successful raid defense then learn how to utilize mercs.

Now onto the SOV issue.
It doesn't make any sense for DUST mercs to be able to easily get to systems deep in enemy SOV. That being said it would probably be best if raids were limited to border systems of your corporation.

Also I learned something new today:
TIL Americans and Europe spell Defence / Defense differently.

Noblesse Oblige ► Gareth Burns

Robert J Niewiadomski
NULLIMPEX INC
#18 - 2013-08-10 18:28:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert J Niewiadomski
How about instead of buying NPC help, let EVE capsuleers issue contracts to DUST mercs? Some types that came first to my mind:
  • Maintain PI colony (reset and reposition extractor heads) duration, resets times, collateral and payouts can be set individualy for each contract
  • Defend PI colony - keeps mercs under their arms, duration, collateral and payouts can be set individualy for each contract
  • Attack PI colony - hire mercs to destroy or take control over PI colony in contract issuer's name (requires certain level of Interplanetary consolidation skill or number of colonies lesser than that skill allows)

*Attack contractcs would automatically spawn one time defend orders for mercs to pick up. Or defending colony could look like RTS game. Would require buying some military ground drones and installations.

EDIT: If nobody accepts the contract at both sides no clones are bought and ISK is returned. If only attacker side or defender side of contract gets any attention from DUST mercs then that side automatically wins ...and attacker only is charged ISK for clones

I do PI myself. I also have an "alt" in DUST. Mercs are dying for more oportunities to go down to the ground level and do some PvE or PvEvP missions. They will literary kill each other's clone to be first there. On the other hand owners of PI colonies would like to see some "automation" at their enterprises ...and ability to take out PI competition.

Some changes to PI mechanics would be necessary. Clone production facilities for mercs to use. Or battle clones packs required to be bought from Genolution (supplier for mercs clones). Reinforcement timers for scheduling attacks on PI. So we don't need to be on guard 24/7.

PI interface could be made more like C&C, Warcraft or Dune or other RTS to make it more appealing to the eye. It is very frugal now.

Interplanetary consolidation skill could have aditional advanced levels. Like Corporation control has. Ex after maxing out Interplanetary consoludation one could train System planetary consolidation. 1st level adds 20 more colonies. Every next level adds 10 more. Giving 66 colonies at lvl 5. Next level Region planetary consolidation. 1st level adds 200 more colonies. Every next level adds 100 more. Giving 666 at lvl 5. Could be less if you think it's too much...

It is to make PI more commonplace activity in EVE giving more occasions for issuing contracts to mercs.

Capsuleers could use mercs for quickening or slowing down SOV/POS activities. Ie.: put mercs inside SOV/POS structures to affect timers. It begs for this.

EDIT:
Have found another thread (two years old, one dev reply) on expanding PI experience:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=7655

F.E.A.R. stands for False Expectations Assumed Real http://www.mannymolecular.com/mind-emotion/42-exploring-fear