Intergalactic Summit

Two reasons:

A soul can only pass to the afterlife once. Though the nature of the soul has remained a hotly debated topic in Amarr theology for millennia, one common interpretation is that only the original body of a person is the vessel of their soul, and when that body dies the soul passes on. Any clones of that person would be soulless and thus unable to commune with God. Holders of royal blood are expected to be prepared to take on the role of Voice of God. It is the duty of the Emperor to interpret and convey the will of God, and thus a cloned under this interpretation could not fulfill the duties of the Emperor.

Cloned royals would stymie the pace of progression. The Empire is very carefully constructed with institutions serving to maintain stability and continuity. Throne pretenders are eliminated in the shatol'syn, the executive powers of the throne are restricted by official and unofficial bodies, all to eliminate the risks of dramatic upheaval from generation to generation. However, the Empire still needs change, and change comes with death and succession. If royals are allowed to clone, pretenders may linger and grow powerful, Emperors can reign indefinitely, and the Empire grows static and unstable.

The flesh we were born with is flesh made by God. The flesh of clones is flesh made by man. Only God is Divine, and so only His creations are Divine. The creations of man will always pale before the creations of God.

No more clear is this than in the soul. Man cannot create a soul, and it is wishful thinking, if not outright heresy, to believe that the Divine soul migrates from the Divine flesh created by God to the cloned flesh made by man. Clones are duplicates. A scan, an electronic photograph, is made of their brain pattern, and that scan is then mimiced onto the formless brain of the clone. Nothing from the original is transferred, only the legacy. Why should we believe that the soul, of all things, would pass from the original body to the clone body when nothing else does? Afterall, it is certainly possible to have two clones of the same person at the same time, the only thing preventing this is law. How can one believe the soul transfers from the original to the clone, when the only thing preventing hundreds of simultaneous clones of the same person is bureaucratic policy?

When we die, our soul goes to God for final judgment. Any clone left behind is a manmade simulacrum, not a Divine creature of God, and so cannot possess a soul. If it does possess one, it is only a manmade byproduct with no Divine presence, and therefore almost certainly unworthy of God.

The doctrine came about as a result of the works of Saint Articus.

There were probably reasons such as the Mad Emperor Zaragram. Clones would mean having to assassinate a madman several times, instead of just once.

The tradition is heading into history, as the wave after wave of unrighteous foreigners hurl themselves at the Empire. Without clones, the Empire would be worn down by this flood of cloned heathens.

Now then, capsuleers, well. A semi-immortal creature, that does the work of God ? well, that's an angel, no? And if the creature decides to do the work of the Deceiver, then they're a demon, no?

So, Angel or Demon. Which are you ?

By whom?

Scholar Valate, that is an interesting opinion. For you I also have a few questions:

1. Since Emperor Zaragram lived many centuries and our people only received the ability to clone some 11 years ago and the origin of the tradition is preventing proliferation of clones, how old is the tradition?



2. So, the ability to have some form of immortality mimics the traditional attributes of Angels too much to be considered without sin? Is it fair to say that an immortal form is held to be exclusive to the direct servants of God (Angels) and those who adopt this ability without him granting it directly can be termed Demons? Or can capsuleers be Angels without too?

How vague.

And what is the point of such a public investigation?

The sanctity of flesh as doctrine is more applied to holders and emperors then commoners. This is the simple reason since every creature has a purpose in life but shouldnt exist forever. Citizens serve the empire and therefore their life may be prolonged or shortened as empire seems fit. However holders and emperors rule the empire and are directly under God so they cant rule forever becouse of breaking the natural order.

If we are speaking about soul i think the soul transfers automaticaly. Since it was created By God it has no boundaries, no limits so i dont think some process can force it away. Soul inhabits the body as its mortal vessel. When this mortal form dies it passes on to heaven or hell. Nowhere in texts is said that it cant be sent back to do good or bad.

I assume the person accused of violating this doctrine would have to be proven guilty. That he intentionaly cloned himself for selfish purposes and goals. That he made everythink possible to hide the fact and that he coused damage with this acting.

Well the sentence i imagine since the person if killed could just woke up somewhere else would be deep cryo sleep in a tube launched to space in unknown direction sentenced to travel in deep sleep until universe collapses.

An interesting viewpoint. Living flesh in the image of man created through the regular method of conceptions and birth is divinely blessed, while the same created through science isn't?



Is the lack of soul in an non-divinely blessed and manufactured living body noticable by any means?

If it isn't noticable, is the sanctity of flesh enforcable by us mortals?

This is obvious nonsense. Capsuleers do everything forbidden by God and men. They murder, betray, smuggle and steal as it suits them. But suddenly all capsuleers are holier than thou when the Empires ask them not to make two or more clones of themselves? Do you believe that yourself, or have you been ordered to repeat that?

I challenge you to show me, among the myriads of law-breaking capsuleers, one capsuleer that has two or more simultaneous clones. I'll ask some Sansha loyalists to perform this feat, obviously they are not held back by some Empire-bound 'bureaucratic rule', or are they?

Additionally, if they could, anyone with access to the new cloning technology for ground troops would be smart to make a hundred copies of their best warriors? Why would the Caldari State, who breed test tube children by the thousands, not mass produce their finest soldiers? Why would the Elders of the Minmatar send fleets of ships to attack Concord, but still abide by their cloning rules? That simply doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

The advantages of making multiple life copies are so great it is abundantly clear that people are not cloning themselves or others en-masse because *they cannot do it*. And why can't they do it? Because the clones lack one thing, a thing divinely made thing that cannot be copied: a soul. Without a soul, a clone is akin to s a rock: inert matter without volition.

People do not turn into rocks as soon as they activate their first clone is activated, they retain their moral and spiritual fibre because their soul follows them to its new host.

The very argument you make for the divine nature of the soul, as a thing that cannot be man-made, is a strong argument for the reality that no one is making multiple copies of individuals despite all the advantages and temptations.

Pfah, capsuleers not doing things because the bureaucracy tells them not to....

Because it's built into the technology. One half of the fluid router pair is installed in the capsule, the other half is installed in the cloning machine itself. It is a one to one from the capsule to the cloning vat. The scan itself is deleted automatically during this process to prevent it being reused.

But with modification of the system it is possible to save copies of brain scans to a computer. These copies can then be used to create a new clone at any time.

I cannot point to any specific person, but that does not mean that it is outside the realm of technological possibility. I'm pretty sure there are cases of it happening before being swiftly put down by proper authorities.

Souls do not transfer. It is wishful thinking to believe that they do.



Yes. The flesh created by God, through His natural methods, is Divine. Sacred. The flesh created by man through technology, by shaping biomass and duplicating neural patterns, is not.

Is the lack of soul in a clone noticeable? If it is, it is not through my eyes. I will not speak for the clergy or for my other betters, though, perhaps they can determine it through communion with God.

As for how it is enforceable... it should be enforced through the elimination of cloning.




It is only a punishable crime for Royals. That does not mean that it does not apply to all. That we lessers are not punished by the law of man for cloning does not mean that it is 'okay' for us to do it.