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CCP stll needs to do something about cloaks

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Hans Zwaardhandler
Resilience.
The Initiative.
#201 - 2013-06-14 20:48:34 UTC
Great, leave for a few hours to get lunch, read some stuff and do other things and this thread explodes a bit more.

For the crowd of people that like to trot out the "We should definitely allow local to be removed because **** carebears" everytime a AFK cloaking thread comes along, that leads to those people leaving nullsec and heading back to high because the risk of the unseen cyno pilot from nowhere outweighs the reward. Removing local doesn't fix the problem, because while on paper it sounds like a great idea, it will never be implemented due to the fact that nullsec =/= wormhole space.
Erutpar Ambient
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#202 - 2013-06-14 20:53:40 UTC
Grimpak wrote:
a kill made by an AFK cloaker is still something I haven't seen.

and I have seen things, and quite some.. things too


You guys really love drilling this into the ground don't you.

They're called AFK campers not because they kill/cyno you while being afk. But because they're afk the vast vast vast majority of the time they're in your space. Then times when they kill you they're obviously not afk at that particular moment. But hey sometimes miners hop in pvp ships and get kills too. But you know what, nobody has ever been ganked by someone who was mining.

Afker: someone who is afk "most" of the time.
Miner: someone who mines for the majority of their income

Anyone who says "nebedy ever died to an afk cloaker" is essentially saying "nobody ever died to a miner".
Please stop playing dumb, you know what this is all about. If it was working right you wouldn't need to pretend you have trisomy 21 to make an arguement. A very very sad and unoriginal arguement.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#203 - 2013-06-14 20:56:10 UTC
Erutpar Ambient wrote:
Grimpak wrote:
a kill made by an AFK cloaker is still something I haven't seen.

and I have seen things, and quite some.. things too


You guys really love drilling this into the ground don't you.

They're called AFK campers not because they kill/cyno you while being afk. But because they're afk the vast vast vast majority of the time they're in your space. Then times when they kill you they're obviously not afk at that particular moment. But hey sometimes miners hop in pvp ships and get kills too. But you know what, nobody has ever been ganked by someone who was mining.

Afker: someone who is afk "most" of the time.
Miner: someone who mines for the majority of their income

Anyone who says "nebedy ever died to an afk cloaker" is essentially saying "nobody ever died to a miner".
Please stop playing dumb, you know what this is all about. If it was working right you wouldn't need to pretend you have trisomy 21 to make an arguement. A very very sad and unoriginal arguement.



Thanks, after calling me a **** you just ignore my response to your comments.


Thats... nice.



"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#204 - 2013-06-14 20:59:11 UTC
Erutpar Ambient wrote:
Grimpak wrote:
a kill made by an AFK cloaker is still something I haven't seen.

and I have seen things, and quite some.. things too

You guys really love drilling this into the ground don't you.

They're called AFK campers not because they kill/cyno you while being afk. But because they're afk the vast vast vast majority of the time they're in your space. Then times when they kill you they're obviously not afk at that particular moment. But hey sometimes miners hop in pvp ships and get kills too. But you know what, nobody has ever been ganked by someone who was mining.

Afker: someone who is afk "most" of the time.
Miner: someone who mines for the majority of their income

Anyone who says "nebedy ever died to an afk cloaker" is essentially saying "nobody ever died to a miner".
Please stop playing dumb, you know what this is all about. If it was working right you wouldn't need to pretend you have trisomy 21 to make an arguement. A very very sad and unoriginal arguement.

So? It's stupid as all hell, less original than a DBRB story and maybe smells as bad.

This is the EVE Online General Discussion.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Gealbhan
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#205 - 2013-06-14 21:01:21 UTC
Actually, removing local would be a good thing for cloaked ships then no one will know you're there at all. You'd be able to sneak up on people who have no clue what so ever and ambush them, especially those fat mining barges and pve fit mission ships.

Yes, please remove local and give us true stealth attacks against the blissfully ignorant. Arrow
Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
#206 - 2013-06-14 21:01:22 UTC
Walton Simons wrote:
CCP stll needs to do something about cloaks



Yeah I agree they should lifetime ban anyone who makes another sissy thread about cloaks.
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#207 - 2013-06-14 21:02:11 UTC
Doc Fury wrote:
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
Stegas Tyrano wrote:
CCP Fozzie said in a pre-odyssey stream that they will be looking at the cloaking mechanic sometime in the future.


Thank you....I posted that link in the last thread. No one wants to acknowledge it because then that would be admitting it is a issue needing attention.



CCP Fozzie: "Hey lets look at this!"

CCP Soundwave: "No one has ever died to an AFK cloaker, or anyone who was AFK, cloaked or otherwise."

CCP Fozzie: "O.K. then, mission accomplished."

That must have been the sound bite in your head. I am surprised you could find it given all the emptiness to dig thru.
Ace Menda
Gemini Lounge
#208 - 2013-06-14 21:08:34 UTC
Hans Zwaardhandler wrote:
Great, leave for a few hours to get lunch, read some stuff and do other things and this thread explodes a bit more.

For the crowd of people that like to trot out the "We should definitely allow local to be removed because **** carebears" everytime a AFK cloaking thread comes along, that leads to those people leaving nullsec and heading back to high because the risk of the unseen cyno pilot from nowhere outweighs the reward. Removing local doesn't fix the problem, because while on paper it sounds like a great idea, it will never be implemented due to the fact that nullsec =/= wormhole space.


No...give you carebears the safety there is now...

Yeah...that is proper risk/reward balancing.

If you can't deal with PvP. GTFO of null-sec and maybe think about playing a bit of WoW...it suits you better.

Those who yell we need local and need CCP to nerf cloaks are just risk adverse and don't like that people can shoot their carebear asses.

Are you in need of some nice chat? Are you new and want some help? Look no further and join: Crazy Dutch Guy
Hans Zwaardhandler
Resilience.
The Initiative.
#209 - 2013-06-14 21:21:38 UTC
Ace Menda wrote:
Hans Zwaardhandler wrote:
Great, leave for a few hours to get lunch, read some stuff and do other things and this thread explodes a bit more.

For the crowd of people that like to trot out the "We should definitely allow local to be removed because **** carebears" everytime a AFK cloaking thread comes along, that leads to those people leaving nullsec and heading back to high because the risk of the unseen cyno pilot from nowhere outweighs the reward. Removing local doesn't fix the problem, because while on paper it sounds like a great idea, it will never be implemented due to the fact that nullsec =/= wormhole space.


No...give you carebears the safety there is now...

Yeah...that is proper risk/reward balancing.

If you can't deal with PvP. GTFO of null-sec and maybe think about playing a bit of WoW...it suits you better.

Those who yell we need local and need CCP to nerf cloaks are just risk adverse and don't like that people can shoot their carebear asses.


I'm sorry, I didn't know that removing local and disagreeing with your opinion of "We shouldn't do that because there is no check to stop hotdrops for people" made me unable to deal with PvP, meant I should leave null, and go and play World of Warcraft on the rather thin basis of having a different mindset than you.

Nevermind actually reading the rest of the thread of course; my point hasn't been that we need to nerf cloaks, my point has been that those that like to shout about how we need to remove local so we can have "moar risk" are myopically shortsighted without realizing that what they are saying is completely idiotic.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#210 - 2013-06-14 21:25:01 UTC
I also wasnt aware that an AFK cloaker made all local security and defense fleets vanish in a puff of logic.


What?


You DONT have any way to counter anyone wandering into your belt gunports open?


They stole that too?!

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#211 - 2013-06-14 21:26:14 UTC
We need more cloaks!

The Amarr have them but not the minmatar? What if it's cold out and I want to cover my head? Sad

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny
Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
#212 - 2013-06-14 21:26:40 UTC
Ace Menda wrote:
Posting in Nerf Cloak thread number 35.303.281

Really...carebears with their carebears issues.


I think you missed the two in the Newbies forum from last hour. My count was 35.303.283, counting this thread.

For the Newbies: The 8 Golden Rules - The Magic 14 Skills - Finding the Right Corp - EVE University Wiki
Daemon Ceed
Ice Fire Warriors
#213 - 2013-06-14 21:29:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Daemon Ceed
My god, these carebear tears are so delicious!

As it's been said before a million times and said once again; the only thing denying you from being able to "do stuff" is your abject fear of losing something. No risk, no reward. Simple. If you are so afraid then you should go back to highsec and grind L4's until your spleen bleeds.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#214 - 2013-06-14 21:31:54 UTC
Fonac wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Toshiro Hasegawa wrote:
KaraStarbuckThrace wrote:
Walton Simons wrote:
CCP stll needs to do something about cloaks, i mean seriously one click and your invisible for all day, can't do **** cause this one person wants to afk with a cyno rapier in the middle of space

it's ok though, cloak takes no cap and you can't find the person unless he magically decloaks while afk but you know that won't happen while hes in the middle of space and there is noting there


in my opinion cloaks are very op and need a nerf :) like the prices of dreads need a nerf lol


Posting in I'm scared of afk players No. 14235



and how do you know they are afk ?

you cant - you have to assume they are active, and ready to hotdrop you with a fleet of scary ships with experienced pilots and a capable FC. And as there is no way to know you have to prepare for the worst least you get burned, lose a ton of isk and get ridiculed by your alliance and corpmates.

Preparing for the worst does not include sitting in a station.

Preparing for the worst means getting all of your corp/alliance mates operating within a couple of systems radius to be in gang, organized and ready to PVP while they are going about their normal business. When word comes that a hot drop is in progress they need to be able to respond instantly, with a designated FC ready to take command.

I'll say this as gently as possible, you really need to start thinking like a predator instead of thinking like prey.



I would love to see a setup, that is supposed to work against this sort of threat.
You dont pve in pvp fitted ships, if you do, you're wasting your time.

You dont have people on standby, because what would they do? - Yes they could be alts, but those alts could do something better.
You can have an ever so experienced FC, it won't do anything good though. Because the ships you're flying at fitted for anything but pvp.


1. Those people that says ignore the local neut, are terrible players.. i would not be surpised to see their head on a stick, on a nice killmail, flying a pve fitted ship worth billions.

2. If you ignore an obvious threat(however so slight it might be) you're a fool. You dont prepare for the worst, you stay away from it.

3. You never know if that cloaky is afk or not, therefore he's a threat regardless of him actually being there or not, if you see it in any other way, you're gambling. And if you gamble you might loose simple as that. Play safe, and stay alive.

3. Cloaking is incredibly powerfull, it is a powerfull to what danger a human-being percieves it to be. That being that it's an unknown, and we all know how humans reacts to unknowns aiiight?

4. Cloaking is being looked at! Stated by mr. Fozzie, in a newish interview on twitch, i dont remember which one but it's fairly recent <1 month i believe.




#0 The best way to counter a cloaky is to start ratting in another system. If that cloaky moves system, to yours... you can try and bait him.






Sorry, had to go to a meeting.

You'd love to see the setup where this works?
I'd suggest watching several Dirt Nap Squad (much, much respect here) video's on Youtube. They are quite honest about posting vid's of covert hot drops (their speciality) that go wrong. Usually this happens when they attack a seemingly peaceful system, where everyone is going about their business normally, that suddenly transforms into a well organized hornets nest because the inhabitants are prepared. You'll find me in a couple of them. Blink

By the way, contrary to popular belief, if you actually know what you are doing you can rat quite effectively in a PVP fit ship... yes, even in the heart of Null Sec. People who claim otherwise have talked themselves into that mindset, and really probably shouldn't be ratting in Null to begin with. It's really only necessary in the toughest missions or Incursions... and even then there are steps you can take to still be effective in a PVP situation. It's just that many people are too lazy or (ironically) risk adverse to bother to do so.

1: Correct, you should never ignore local. You should prepare yourself accordingly, and then carry on with what you need to do.
2: You're often better off taking the proper steps to make sure your enemy experiences the "worst" instead. It's much more satisfying.
3: When faced with the unknown some people cower and hide in fear, others invite it in for a sip of refreshing poison Kool Aide.
4: There are a lot of interesting things that can be done with cloaking and local that don't involve destroying the effectiveness of either.

#0: This is very true. Cloakers are always at their most vulnerable when changing systems. However you do need to keep in mind that fleeing to another system is not always practical, or even desireable. It is always good to tempt a cloaker into changing systems, if for no other reason than to determine if they are AFK or not... but if that is the only weapon in your arsenal you're in big trouble.

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Johnny McCynoalt
Plundering Penguins
Solyaris Chtonium
#215 - 2013-06-14 21:32:37 UTC
Have you ever considered not letting the "afk cloakers" into your ratting systems in the first place? 0.0 has these wonderful things that are known in the vernacular as "bubbles", which people like you often cry about and call imbalanced.

These "bubbles" can make it very unsafe for people who are not your friends to move around, including moving into the systems you carebear in in your ships that are apparently too expensive to undock with "afk cloakers" in local.

Those "overpowered" hotdrops require a large amount of effort and coordination, and if you put a similar amount of effort and coordination into choosing a proper system (read as: deadend system, preferably down a pipe) to use your apparently expensive pve ships in, bubbling the gates leading up to this system, and intercepting enemies who are slowly making their way through your bubbled gates, you can defend your ratting systems with much greater effect than whining on the forums produces.

If gatecamping fails, you can bait the "afk cloaker" (unless you spent an hour crying on the forums about it first, in which case they probably ARE afk and will be difficult to bait), you can move to another system and bubble the gate leading out of the one with the "afk cloaker" in it (you DO have multiple ratting systems, right? if you only have one, why ISN'T the gate into it bubbled and camped when your intel channels report neuts / enemies around?), you can rat in less expensive ships, or you can do something else besides ratting (like making use of these "overpowered" "afk cloakers", yourself).

If you are only interested in carebearing and you are not willing to take the steps necessary to defend your space against players who are willing to dedicate large amounts of time and resources to killing you, either hire someone to protect you, go back to hisec, or learn to accept your place at the bottom of the food chain and stop crying about it.
Ace Menda
Gemini Lounge
#216 - 2013-06-14 21:35:31 UTC
Hans Zwaardhandler wrote:
Ace Menda wrote:
Hans Zwaardhandler wrote:
Great, leave for a few hours to get lunch, read some stuff and do other things and this thread explodes a bit more.

For the crowd of people that like to trot out the "We should definitely allow local to be removed because **** carebears" everytime a AFK cloaking thread comes along, that leads to those people leaving nullsec and heading back to high because the risk of the unseen cyno pilot from nowhere outweighs the reward. Removing local doesn't fix the problem, because while on paper it sounds like a great idea, it will never be implemented due to the fact that nullsec =/= wormhole space.


No...give you carebears the safety there is now...

Yeah...that is proper risk/reward balancing.

If you can't deal with PvP. GTFO of null-sec and maybe think about playing a bit of WoW...it suits you better.

Those who yell we need local and need CCP to nerf cloaks are just risk adverse and don't like that people can shoot their carebear asses.


I'm sorry, I didn't know that removing local and disagreeing with your opinion of "We shouldn't do that because there is no check to stop hotdrops for people" made me unable to deal with PvP, meant I should leave null, and go and play World of Warcraft on the rather thin basis of having a different mindset than you.

Nevermind actually reading the rest of the thread of course; my point hasn't been that we need to nerf cloaks, my point has been that those that like to shout about how we need to remove local so we can have "moar risk" are myopically shortsighted without realizing that what they are saying is completely idiotic.


And how is it idiotic.

It's idiotic to those who want safety...who want intel channels to work so they get warnings.


If there was no local, you wouldn't even know about that guy that is AFK (Which means AWAY from keyboard, so he can't do nothign at all against you) guy in system so you wouldn't even care.

Removing local does make it more risky in null...but it's null, if you can't deal with the risk, you don't belong there.

Are you in need of some nice chat? Are you new and want some help? Look no further and join: Crazy Dutch Guy
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#217 - 2013-06-14 21:36:26 UTC
Johnny McCynoalt wrote:
Have you ever considered not letting the "afk cloakers" into your ratting systems in the first place? 0.0 has these wonderful things that are known in the vernacular as "bubbles", which people like you often cry about and call imbalanced.

These "bubbles" can make it very unsafe for people who are not your friends to move around, including moving into the systems you carebear in in your ships that are apparently too expensive to undock with "afk cloakers" in local.

Those "overpowered" hotdrops require a large amount of effort and coordination, and if you put a similar amount of effort and coordination into choosing a proper system (read as: deadend system, preferably down a pipe) to use your apparently expensive pve ships in, bubbling the gates leading up to this system, and intercepting enemies who are slowly making their way through your bubbled gates, you can defend your ratting systems with much greater effect than whining on the forums produces.

If gatecamping fails, you can bait the "afk cloaker" (unless you spent an hour crying on the forums about it first, in which case they probably ARE afk and will be difficult to bait), you can move to another system and bubble the gate leading out of the one with the "afk cloaker" in it (you DO have multiple ratting systems, right? if you only have one, why ISN'T the gate into it bubbled and camped when your intel channels report neuts / enemies around?), you can rat in less expensive ships, or you can do something else besides ratting (like making use of these "overpowered" "afk cloakers", yourself).

If you are only interested in carebearing and you are not willing to take the steps necessary to defend your space against players who are willing to dedicate large amounts of time and resources to killing you, either hire someone to protect you, go back to hisec, or learn to accept your place at the bottom of the food chain and stop crying about it.



They are upset because one person cant secure a system, rat in safety, own a non-sov system, defend a sov system, cyno-blockade and prevent cloakers from.... cloaking.



OH! and T3s are far far too powerful and need nerfed. Again.



Did I forget anything?

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Ace Menda
Gemini Lounge
#218 - 2013-06-14 21:37:24 UTC
Winter Archipelago wrote:
Ace Menda wrote:
Posting in Nerf Cloak thread number 35.303.281

Really...carebears with their carebears issues.


I think you missed the two in the Newbies forum from last hour. My count was 35.303.283, counting this thread.


There are no such things.

I live in the new citizen forums...I would have spotted them, cloaked or not.

Are you in need of some nice chat? Are you new and want some help? Look no further and join: Crazy Dutch Guy
Ace Menda
Gemini Lounge
#219 - 2013-06-14 21:40:34 UTC
Johnny McCynoalt wrote:
Have you ever considered not letting the "afk cloakers" into your ratting systems in the first place? 0.0 has these wonderful things that are known in the vernacular as "bubbles", which people like you often cry about and call imbalanced.

These "bubbles" can make it very unsafe for people who are not your friends to move around, including moving into the systems you carebear in in your ships that are apparently too expensive to undock with "afk cloakers" in local.

Those "overpowered" hotdrops require a large amount of effort and coordination, and if you put a similar amount of effort and coordination into choosing a proper system (read as: deadend system, preferably down a pipe) to use your apparently expensive pve ships in, bubbling the gates leading up to this system, and intercepting enemies who are slowly making their way through your bubbled gates, you can defend your ratting systems with much greater effect than whining on the forums produces.

If gatecamping fails, you can bait the "afk cloaker" (unless you spent an hour crying on the forums about it first, in which case they probably ARE afk and will be difficult to bait), you can move to another system and bubble the gate leading out of the one with the "afk cloaker" in it (you DO have multiple ratting systems, right? if you only have one, why ISN'T the gate into it bubbled and camped when your intel channels report neuts / enemies around?), you can rat in less expensive ships, or you can do something else besides ratting (like making use of these "overpowered" "afk cloakers", yourself).

If you are only interested in carebearing and you are not willing to take the steps necessary to defend your space against players who are willing to dedicate large amounts of time and resources to killing you, either hire someone to protect you, go back to hisec, or learn to accept your place at the bottom of the food chain and stop crying about it.


Not to mention...1 single module in system and hotdrops aren't even possible anymore.


But I forgot...those things cost ISK...which is why you are there...to carebear and make ISK for your own wallet.

Are you in need of some nice chat? Are you new and want some help? Look no further and join: Crazy Dutch Guy
Erutpar Ambient
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#220 - 2013-06-14 21:47:09 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
[
Thanks, after calling me a **** you just ignore my response to your comments.


Thats... nice.





His response was before your re-response. I'm on my phone and every time I try to post I have to save all my work hit the button and paste it again 2 or 3 times before it actually sticks. Anyways.

What you quoted was me saying that being afk and cloaked compounded the threat of the person because only they would know when they were back from afk. Your inability to get this point leads to the assumption that either you didn't read the text or you lack the mental fortitude to comprehend it.

As for T3s. Well first of all you have to understand that price and prereqs do not make something balanced. Saying that the expense and training time offsets their OPness is erroneous. The reason that they're OP is the same reason they're the fleet of choice for large engagements. They're strengths are many and their weaknesses are few. And because they can warp while cloaked they can choose their targets to make sure they are at the least risk possible. Each one of the T3s has one tank weakness and the rest of the stats are strengths. T3s are just OP in general.

And as for dumber, last I checked it was a word. Hmm strange.