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When do we see Torpedo changes?

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Funky Lazers
Funk Freakers
#1 - 2013-06-13 23:32:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Funky Lazers
Since the Cruise missiles change Torps became kinda useless:
- Cruses have the same damage (t1 torps vs t2 rage cruises)
- Smaller expl radius if you use rigors. Actually you can't use rigors on Torps because of gimped range.
- Much better range.
It is obvious Torps need a boost.

Right now it is impossible to use them on Typhoon or any other unbonused for range ship - 15km range is a joke.

I'm not proposing the exact things for change but would like to see:
1. Increased speed at least by 100% and reduced flight time by 50%.
2. Reduced expl radius. I guess Torps should have lesser expl radius compared to Cruises, because every short range weapon applies damage better when on effective range.
3. Increased damage at least by ~10%. The same thing, every short range weapon has a better damage.
4. Increased launcher capacity or reduced reloading time. 20 torps in a launcher is too small. ACs have 120 rounds with ~3 sec rof, Blasters have ~4 sec rof with 80 rounds which is just the same as ACs, and by that logic Siege launchers must have ~40 torps in them with ~6-7 sec rof.

Guess that's it.

Whatever.
Allandri
Liandri Industrial
#2 - 2013-06-14 00:06:02 UTC
I guess cavalry ravens and torpedo bombers was before your time. Torpedoes do high volley damage against large targets. That's it. Nothing else
Astroniomix
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#3 - 2013-06-14 02:36:34 UTC
Allandri wrote:
I guess cavalry ravens and torpedo bombers was before your time. Torpedoes do high volley damage against large targets. That's it. Nothing else

If by "large targets" you mean massive stationary ones, then yes. Otherwise nope.
Funky Lazers
Funk Freakers
#4 - 2013-06-14 09:20:07 UTC
Allandri wrote:
Torpedoes do high volley damage against large targets. That's it. Nothing else


Don't you have Citadel Launchers and XL guns for this job?!

Whatever.
HiddenPorpoise
Jarlhettur's Drop
United Federation of Conifers
#5 - 2013-06-14 09:24:41 UTC
They said there were going to and then they said they never said they would. Torps are great fun with a fleet painter though, otherwise they aren't very good but they are about even with guns for range.
Astroniomix
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#6 - 2013-06-14 09:26:08 UTC
HiddenPorpoise wrote:
they are about even with guns for range.

Only if you ignore falloff. And lasers.
Funky Lazers
Funk Freakers
#7 - 2013-06-14 10:22:23 UTC
Astroniomix wrote:
HiddenPorpoise wrote:
they are about even with guns for range.

Only if you ignore falloff. And lasers.


And Null that makes my optimal around 20km and falloff ~35km

All in all you can also do ~50% of your damage up to 1x falloff, missiles can't.

Whatever.
Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#8 - 2013-06-14 11:17:30 UTC
I think you're blatantly missing the fact that Javelin torps can get upto 30km or so... also T1/faction torps do 20km so i assume you're talking about Rage torps which are meant to be short range as they are high damage ammo.

-Void 6km Optimal 6km falloff
-Conflag 15km optimal 10km falloff
- Hail 3km optimal 18km falloff
-Rage 16km optimal

so in reality Torps have the best optimal range so you have to be referring to a lack of falloff ....
FYI .. fozzie said Torps are fine so they didn't get touched in odyssey as a result.

'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium Nerf missile range into place where is the TD missile change?  ..projectiles should use capacitor. ABC's should be T2 HABC and nerf web strength its still too high

Funky Lazers
Funk Freakers
#9 - 2013-06-14 11:59:11 UTC
Jonas Sukarala wrote:
I think you're blatantly missing the fact that Javelin torps can get upto 30km or so... also T1/faction torps do 20km so i assume you're talking about Rage torps which are meant to be short range as they are high damage ammo.

-Void 6km Optimal 6km falloff
-Conflag 15km optimal 10km falloff
- Hail 3km optimal 18km falloff
-Rage 16km optimal

so in reality Torps have the best optimal range so you have to be referring to a lack of falloff ....
FYI .. fozzie said Torps are fine so they didn't get touched in odyssey as a result.


I guess you never used Torps.
That 20km range indication is wrong, in reality torps fly no further than 15km due to bug CCP refuses to fix.
Javelins fly no longer than 25km.

Also if you compare Conflag, Void and Hail to Rage torps I'd like point out those 3 except torps can hit targets like BS, BC and Cruisers with no penalty - you only need a web and sometimes you don't.
As for Rage you absolutely need Painters (at least 2) and a web.

Whatever.
Daniel Whateley
#10 - 2013-06-14 12:04:16 UTC
Raven navy and regular raven reach out to 25km with anti-ship torpedo's, 40km with long range, and 30km with t1.

Putting 2 velocity rigs in, you can increase the range by about 33%, and as for the typhoon its more focussed on short range, like blasters.
Edey
#11 - 2013-06-14 12:46:20 UTC
Daniel Whateley wrote:
Raven navy and regular raven reach out to 25km with anti-ship torpedo's, 40km with long range, and 30km with t1.

Putting 2 velocity rigs in, you can increase the range by about 33%, and as for the typhoon its more focussed on short range, like blasters.


Have 22 optimal and 36 falloff on my Mega with no rigs. Can't actually call it a short range.
And 30+ on a Rokh.
If you rig them the range will be greater.
Daniel Whateley
#12 - 2013-06-14 13:06:56 UTC
Edey wrote:
Daniel Whateley wrote:
Raven navy and regular raven reach out to 25km with anti-ship torpedo's, 40km with long range, and 30km with t1.

Putting 2 velocity rigs in, you can increase the range by about 33%, and as for the typhoon its more focussed on short range, like blasters.


Have 22 optimal and 36 falloff on my Mega with no rigs. Can't actually call it a short range.
And 30+ on a Rokh.
If you rig them the range will be greater.


But that is with null ammo correct ? and tracking enhancers got a nerf, so that range is now 15km op/24km fo, also rokh is 21+24, and rigging the megathron and rokh used to have no effect, now though, it is more substantial to use rigs instead by mere meters ofc...

And 16km torp range on the typhoon with short range high damage which does 670dps if you use balistic controls its 1100dps, long range is 30km for 450dps and 780 with balistics, with even just 1 rig for range it does a massive impact, also the typhoon is much faster than a rokh, and matches a megathron's speed, so tecnically speaking, the typhoon is much like a megathron, also the typhoon gets the most dps out of all the T1 battleships for cruise missiles aswell... typhoon can be armor or shield tanked, shield tank is optimally efficient, as then you can overdrive fit it for even more increased speeds.


In short, torps don't need a buff, if they got buffed stealth bombers will then be able to shoot 250km away, especially the substantial buff the OP was suggesting, torps would then reach just as far as cruise missiles, torps have a massive DPS and Volley difference over cruise but a lot less range, that would be just like saying blasters should be able to shoot 100% further (double)
Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#13 - 2013-06-14 13:21:30 UTC
Funky Lazers wrote:
Jonas Sukarala wrote:
I think you're blatantly missing the fact that Javelin torps can get upto 30km or so... also T1/faction torps do 20km so i assume you're talking about Rage torps which are meant to be short range as they are high damage ammo.

-Void 6km Optimal 6km falloff
-Conflag 15km optimal 10km falloff
- Hail 3km optimal 18km falloff
-Rage 16km optimal

so in reality Torps have the best optimal range so you have to be referring to a lack of falloff ....
FYI .. fozzie said Torps are fine so they didn't get touched in odyssey as a result.


I guess you never used Torps.
That 20km range indication is wrong, in reality torps fly no further than 15km due to bug CCP refuses to fix.
Javelins fly no longer than 25km.

Also if you compare Conflag, Void and Hail to Rage torps I'd like point out those 3 except torps can hit targets like BS, BC and Cruisers with no penalty - you only need a web and sometimes you don't.
As for Rage you absolutely need Painters (at least 2) and a web.


No penalty is bullshit the sig resolution on bs guns is 400 .. battleship size .. and any weapon needs webs to get full damage its nothing special to missiles and there are a few ships with explosion radius/velocity now that kill your argument much like guns need ships with tracking bonus to work well like the mega you use the right tool for the job nothing's changed in that respect.

FYI i love the way people throw the oh you obviously haven't used this or that before so you know nothing... well i have used torps plenty in PVP and that was before the GMP buff made using them even easier.

'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium Nerf missile range into place where is the TD missile change?  ..projectiles should use capacitor. ABC's should be T2 HABC and nerf web strength its still too high

Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#14 - 2013-06-14 13:46:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Slightly increase the rate of fire, drastically increase the speed (double) and halve the current range.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Daniel Whateley
#15 - 2013-06-15 00:30:48 UTC
Jonas Sukarala wrote:
Funky Lazers wrote:
Jonas Sukarala wrote:
I think you're blatantly missing the fact that Javelin torps can get upto 30km or so... also T1/faction torps do 20km so i assume you're talking about Rage torps which are meant to be short range as they are high damage ammo.

-Void 6km Optimal 6km falloff
-Conflag 15km optimal 10km falloff
- Hail 3km optimal 18km falloff
-Rage 16km optimal

so in reality Torps have the best optimal range so you have to be referring to a lack of falloff ....
FYI .. fozzie said Torps are fine so they didn't get touched in odyssey as a result.


I guess you never used Torps.
That 20km range indication is wrong, in reality torps fly no further than 15km due to bug CCP refuses to fix.
Javelins fly no longer than 25km.

Also if you compare Conflag, Void and Hail to Rage torps I'd like point out those 3 except torps can hit targets like BS, BC and Cruisers with no penalty - you only need a web and sometimes you don't.
As for Rage you absolutely need Painters (at least 2) and a web.


No penalty is bullshit the sig resolution on bs guns is 400 .. battleship size .. and any weapon needs webs to get full damage its nothing special to missiles and there are a few ships with explosion radius/velocity now that kill your argument much like guns need ships with tracking bonus to work well like the mega you use the right tool for the job nothing's changed in that respect.

FYI i love the way people throw the oh you obviously haven't used this or that before so you know nothing... well i have used torps plenty in PVP and that was before the GMP buff made using them even easier.


You're saying torps are great like they are yea? cause i think so.

And for the other guy who thinks torps go no further than 15km hmmm, standard torps with very low skills will only go 10km and i've flown my stealth bomber and 1 shotted a oracle with my rage torps (well half structure), but if that ship has any type of afterburner you will hit for halfish, if the ship goes nominally faster than usual it will hit for less, only if a ship is sitting still will it do the most damage, penalty is a incrimental factor, they faster you go the higher the penalty starting from 0m\s.

Also sig radius is a massive factor for torps, as for guns? no, i can 1 shot a stiletto at 50km in my talos, now.... if there was some kind of implimentation to make torps hit for more if your transversal is low, that could be possible, however does that mean burning in the opposite direction should make the torp do way less damage?

CCP wanted eve to be as realistic as possible, that's what makes it the game it is today, and as rare as it is, every action has an equal or opposite reaction.
Mole Guy
Bob's Bait and Tackle
#16 - 2013-06-15 01:53:45 UTC
Funky Lazers wrote:
Jonas Sukarala wrote:
I think you're blatantly missing the fact that Javelin torps can get upto 30km or so... also T1/faction torps do 20km so i assume you're talking about Rage torps which are meant to be short range as they are high damage ammo.

-Void 6km Optimal 6km falloff
-Conflag 15km optimal 10km falloff
- Hail 3km optimal 18km falloff
-Rage 16km optimal

so in reality Torps have the best optimal range so you have to be referring to a lack of falloff ....
FYI .. fozzie said Torps are fine so they didn't get touched in odyssey as a result.


I guess you never used Torps.
That 20km range indication is wrong, in reality torps fly no further than 15km due to bug CCP refuses to fix.
Javelins fly no longer than 25km.

Also if you compare Conflag, Void and Hail to Rage torps I'd like point out those 3 except torps can hit targets like BS, BC and Cruisers with no penalty - you only need a web and sometimes you don't.
As for Rage you absolutely need Painters (at least 2) and a web.


wait, did u just say conflag can hit cruisers and up?
with maxed out skills, marauder 5 and conflag i missed a pos once.
the tracking penalty on those is stupid at best.
sure they "burst" better than most other ammo because sometimes they hit hard and sometimes they scratch. navy crystals hit consistantly harder due to no penalty. but u absolutely need a web to hit cruisers with conflag. under 10k
To mare
Advanced Technology
#17 - 2013-06-15 02:59:09 UTC
CCP Someone said they already took a look at torps when they rebalanced cruise missile and they think torps dont need further tweakings especially after they made all missile skill apply to unguided missile, still i agree torp range is ridiculous especially when you look at the progression rocket > ham > torp.
Aquila Sagitta
Blue-Fire
#18 - 2013-06-15 03:48:24 UTC
My bomber has 1 rigor rig and hits bc for full damage and cruisers for nearly full damage... idk what your talking about torps can't hit small targets. If i can do that with a bomber with 3 mids not using painters or webs you should have no problem in a bs with ample mids!

Torps are fine the way they are

Blue-Fire Best Fire
Kid Moxie
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2013-06-15 04:55:42 UTC
The biggest change I want for Torps is a cooler animation. The explosions looked beautiful before the animation changes. :(
Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#20 - 2013-06-15 10:58:26 UTC
Aquila Sagitta wrote:
My bomber has 1 rigor rig and hits bc for full damage and cruisers for nearly full damage... idk what your talking about torps can't hit small targets. If i can do that with a bomber with 3 mids not using painters or webs you should have no problem in a bs with ample mids!

Torps are fine the way they are

^
I this is an example when dumb people posts
Aquila Sagitta you are so dumb ,you should be removed from posting ever again

lets see

Minmatar Frigate Skill Bonus:
10% bonus to torpedo explosion velocity and flight time per level
20% bonus to torpedo velocity per level
Covert Ops Skill Bonus:
5% bonus to bomb explosive damage per level
15% bonus to Torpedo explosive damage per level
Role Bonus:
-99.65% reduction in Torpedo Launcher powergrid needs
-50% reduction in Cloak CPU Use
-100% targeting delay after decloaking

5 bonuses for torp to make it viable + cloaky manouverable ships with much better scan res
wonder how usable those bomber torps would be without the 20%/lvl range bonus ,bet not much
and there is 10%/lvl better explosion velocity too which is a huge bonus to apply torp dmg

torps are so ****** they are hardy usable at all, large turrets apply dmg way better, at similar range and insta dmg , they can popp even frigs torp can't do that
they need at least +50% range thats the minimum boost
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