Jita Park Speakers Corner

Seriously CCP your forums suck, I constantly get thrown to "We were ganked, go back" yet my post came up fine anyways, thus the doublepost. vOv

(And I had to retype this out because you deleted my post that I had posted from my iPhone via, we were ganked :P)

This. A thousand times this.

I also keep seeing threads switch between showing as updated (even though I'm the one that made the last post) randomly. It's like there's more than 1 node in a frontend cluster, and they are caching "too much", losing session timers (and thus losing post content), and "we were ganked!" for god knows what reason. This is literally the worst forum implementation I'm frequenting at the moment, and I'm not even sure if using source IP based hashing on the loadbalancing to select the node would make the forum behave more predictable wrt "we were ganked" and maybe even the eating of post content, or if it's just a random error the software throws out for fun.

All I know for certain is that whenever I post on here, I make sure to make a copy of the content before pressing either post or preview.

Of course, Eve online is just like IRL student union elections and we should adopt these policies at once.

So if i follow your line of reasoning here the job definition should not have **** to do with what a successful candidate does after he or she is elected. In that case why is a job definition created? CCP did not ask for each group of Alliance constituents to elect a monarch in the rules i read.

I understand all too well the shortsighted nature of how the herd mentality can make most people so negligent to the big picture as long as their personal desires get lip service from so called representatives by the time they wake up they are up to their shoulders in steer manure. If expecting candidates who run to hold a specific title to exercise the definition of that position makes me "Mr Holier Than Thou" so be it. I don't expect a cop to start working on my electrical system or a taxi driver to perform experimental heart surgery because job definitions have value!

I have invested some time into researching what exactly CSM6 has accomplished thus far and I never claimed in this post or any other that they have done nothing. That being clarified for the tinfoil hat contingent what they have, and from what i have read in their own words directly from them, focused CCP's attention on are issues and problems that never affected the greater player base, just significantly their own political constituency which is a minority special interest that none can honestly deny. Now you can rant and rave that that is not the case but since they wear their indifference for anyone but their self identified political constituents like a badge of honor you might look a little foolish.

Elections have outcomes, elections should be consequential, thus when the outcome of the election installs representatives who proudly boast of their distaste and revile for the MAJORITY of the electorate and their actions as the elected representatives ignore the description of the title they were elected to hold only a fool would expect that to go unchallenged.

This is by no means a personal attack on any member of CSM6, an in particular the Chairman who has shown an ability to interface with any EVE player who bothers to take the time to post to his thread. I actually find his writing style quite engaging and like me he suffers fools poorly.

I also liked the Joker character in the Batman film Dark Knight, however if I had to live in Gotham City I sure would not vote for him if he ran to be a representative.

A) from above response:
I never said they could not be a CSM member merely that doing so when it does not reflect "the greater good for the greater player base" it conflicts with the definition of what they were actually elected to do.

B) From above response:
Another poster firmly chastised me about my sharp toned statements and I had to agree he was right and have toned down my responses so they stay more on point and remain less pointy. I was overly harsh for no good reason other then verbal sport and the forums deserve better then that.

Part B, all good, I'm perfectly fine with engaging in a discussion over this but lets just keep it as that, a discussion.

Some fair points, and your opinion, while I disagree, does have merit. Let me try to elaborate on mine a bit.

First off, real fast



That's a bit of hyperbole there. First off, I wouldn't classify myself as shortsighted, I get it, some people are unhappy with the recent focus on NullSec, fair. However, "by the time I wake up I'm up to my shoulders in ****"? That doesn't really make any sense, first of all, none of these newer changes inflict harm on anyone unless you have a deathly fear of a newly balanced Brutix. These changes, while somewhat NullSec based yes, do in fact make EVE a better place for all of its subscribers. No one can argue that module and ship balance is an inherently bad or unfair thing to pursue, which was a rather large part of what people like CSM White Tree pushed for.



Again, I just disagree with this. Does it help NullSec pilots? Yes definitely, but does it only help us? No, definitely not. (And even then, just because there are fewer NullSec pilots than HighSec ones doesn't mean we don't deserve a little CCP love from time to time. That's in general an unfair argument to make because we voted and, by no slim margin, won.) Why? Because we knew we wanted changes and we pursued them.


Alright moving on. Just from my point of view, trying to remain as objective as possible, there's a small conflict of interest, just in a few lines, of your previous post.



Technically that's actually not true. The majority of the electorate (not players, this is an important distinction) was this go around, NullSec pilots. I can prove this because well... we won the election. In that sense, CSM6 is doing exactly what the majority of its electorate have been wanting for years. Do you perhaps see how I'm viewing this?

CSM6 isn't necessarily doing everything it could for HighSec and LowSec, right now (because lets keep in mind they do have many more months to perhaps pursue other projects), but it is doing a fantastic job of doing what they were elected by the electorate to do, Fix NullSec and in general get CCP's ass back in gear towards working on EVE.

Hopefully that sort of fine tunes my argument. I await your reply sir.

Nah I'm from the States like you sir, but the text book definition doesn't really work for me. If you don't vote, why the hell should you matter in a political process? I recognize that such an outlook is different from the norm however.

(Okay lemme reread this second paragraph, sorry but its kind of... oddly worded)

Alright, I *think* I got that. The point was Mittens working for NullSec pilots =/= Mittens working for everyone, which in your opinion is a part of the job requirement. Please do correct me if I'm reading that wrong, because that sentence would do well to perhaps be broken up, or have some commas inserted.

See here's the thing though, Mittens does work to represent everyone. All the CSM members do. They discuss with CCP changes they'd like to see or implement, and vice-versa. Again, regardless of if the CSM does spend most of its 'political capital' on fixing NullSec, I still fail to see how that is a 'detriment to the greater player base'. Could you perhaps elaborate on that a bit? Do you mean that resources that could be used on HighSec/LowSec are being diverted or something else?

Once I get a better idea of what exactly you mean by 'detriment to the greater player base' I think it'll be easier to move forward.

Edit: Seriously, CCP, please have one person look into the constant "We Were Ganked" messages.

Not all democracies are parliamentary.

In other news, I'm getting the distinct impression that you dislike the CSM because CCP is treating it as a hiring pool instead of hiring people with a BA in "game design" as though those are worth the paper they're printed on.

See, now that is a completely fair, and logical response. I can totally understand that point. Looking back it seems to me that ~18 months~ of basically nothing just all sort of complied itself into a massive wave of enough is enough, everyone vote now damnit and lets get some change. Whether that will carry into CSM7 I have no idea, though from what I've read it seems like EVE-Uni has seen the play and plans on trying it themselves. By all means, go for it! (As long as they don't go around editing killboard mechanics hehe)

Now if we could just decipher the rest of the thread and why they keep calling for the CSM to be obliterated as a whole.

Good discussion sir.

This.

When the CSM runs there should be cabinets that need filling then general elections for "popular vote".

Maybe 4 seats to represent a specific area, then 4 for general "leadership" for people like Trebor, The Mittani and others who have done well pushing for development of EVE.

That's dumb; you're dumb.

In practice candidates already self-identify with various areas of the game. It's just that the high-sec players are so disengaged and disorganized that they have trouble getting a candidate elected. This is partially because of the casual nature of most (though by no means all) high sec players, and partially because most high-sec players don't vote in real life, let alone for a video game election.