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Gerne Broteau transferred into Republic custody

Author
James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#21 - 2013-06-14 00:54:38 UTC
Now that the Federation has demonstrated its willingness to suffer any indignity for peace by extraditing Msr. Broteau to the Tribal Entity.

When might we expect those responsible for ordering the deaths of all those thousands of Federation citizens in Colelie to be extradited or punished by the noble justice loving Matar?
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#22 - 2013-06-14 04:46:12 UTC
James Syagrius wrote:
When might we expect those responsible for ordering the deaths of all those thousands of Federation citizens in Colelie to be extradited or punished by the noble justice loving Matar?


I bow in awe before the might of your sense of sarcasm. Big smile

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0

Che Biko
Alexylva Paradox
#23 - 2013-06-14 15:05:12 UTC
Why just post a link to a news story with no comment? Do you think we can't find the news ourselves?
Halete
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2013-06-14 15:08:36 UTC
Che Biko wrote:
Why just post a link to a news story with no comment? Do you think we can't find the news ourselves?


Perhaps because the official news feeds usually have no component open for discussion.

Seriously did you even make an effort to think about this before posting?

Linking news sources such as this is a time-honored tradition of forums. Even if the news source does allow open discussion it isn't necessarily the type of discussion that certain GalNet subcultures are looking for, therefore it is common for numerous discussion threads in response to breaking news.

"To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin" - The Scriptures, Book of Missions 13:21

Che Biko
Alexylva Paradox
#25 - 2013-06-14 15:16:37 UTC
Yes, I did think before posting.
I don't mind someone opening a discussion thread as long as they discuss it. The OP contains no such discussion however, like in this one. I think it's a bit weird to asume that people will want to discuss something if you yourself do not.
Halete
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2013-06-14 15:18:02 UTC
It's news, Che.

People will discuss it.

"To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin" - The Scriptures, Book of Missions 13:21

Ninavask
The Synenose Accord
#27 - 2013-06-14 16:29:34 UTC
Gabriel Darkefyre wrote:
Ninavask wrote:
I almost want to see him brought before the tribal council and be ceremonially executed over galnet...


Doubtful. We're not the Federation.


I had completely forgotten about that. Maybe the minmatar should bring him back... or just let us handle coverage.

Dr. Ninavask Revan

Colonist

Alexylva Paradox

The views above are the opinions and beliefs of Dr. Ninavask and do in no way reflect on his employeers or associates at the time of posting.

Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#28 - 2013-06-14 22:21:32 UTC
The lesson learned here: if you throw an international temper tantrum, you will get what you want.
Does the federation also negotiate with terrorists?
Katarina Musana
Clan Leshya Offworld Venture Enterprise
#29 - 2013-06-15 02:07:25 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Brandi Wiseman wrote:
How can giving in have been the best thing to do?

We didn't give in.

We refused the demand they made, destroyed the invading fleet and proceeded with operating our government and justice system the way that we planned to, rather than the way that external forces insisted. At the end of the proceedings, we decided, on our own terms, to send Broteau to the Republic.

You merely see two identical outcomes, but I see two entirely different paths leading up to them.



Despite how infuriating the Federation's belligerence and insults were, if the Federation stood by their convictions fully, at least they'd have earned some respect. But apparently Federation foreign policy boils down to trolling their allies, and then giving in to demands when things get heated. Sometimes, I think null-sec alliances are better at foreign policy.

Fredfredbug4 wrote:
Apparently referring to roughly 25% of the galactic Minmatar population (the Republic) is the same as referring to all people of Minmatar descent.


Oh, look, it's the "journalist" who thinks the majority of Matari are criminals and outlaws because we "have our fair share" of criminals and outlaws, just like every other race.

Don't you have some bullshit to write and publish as "news"?

Quote:
The Federation acted accordingly to customs of interplanetary law, mostly. Crimes against Heads of State have always been granted extraterritoriality, both by custom and by law, and although this wasn't only a crime against a Head of State, justice demands that the Republic be granted their right to judge him for that crime.


Funny you say that, since our complaint from the beginning was the fact that the Federation was refusing to act according to customs of interplanetary law regarding crimes against Heads of State.
Cipher7
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2013-06-15 13:02:12 UTC

Our Gallente overlords sound angry today.
Narcisa De Fontaine
Core Medical Group
#31 - 2013-06-15 13:21:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Narcisa De Fontaine
Katarina Musana wrote:
when things get heated.


Is that what you call it?

I prefer "state sanctioned murder of Federation Navy personnel" for the sake of accuracy.

I'm not expecting Broteau to be returned to the Federation, but I don't support sending a capital fleet over the border for him if (when) it happens.

Perhaps constitutionally the senate won't have any other choice but to take action if he's not returned, but I hope not. There has to be an end to this chain of events for everyone's sake, if it means backing down to a crowd of gloating and crowing "allies" then so be it.
Raven Solaris
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2013-06-15 13:37:13 UTC
So they killed him.

Cover your heads, it's all downhill from here.
Repentence Tyrathlion
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#33 - 2013-06-15 13:41:03 UTC
Katarina Musana wrote:
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Brandi Wiseman wrote:
How can giving in have been the best thing to do?

We didn't give in.

We refused the demand they made, destroyed the invading fleet and proceeded with operating our government and justice system the way that we planned to, rather than the way that external forces insisted. At the end of the proceedings, we decided, on our own terms, to send Broteau to the Republic.

You merely see two identical outcomes, but I see two entirely different paths leading up to them.



Despite how infuriating the Federation's belligerence and insults were, if the Federation stood by their convictions fully, at least they'd have earned some respect. But apparently Federation foreign policy boils down to trolling their allies, and then giving in to demands when things get heated. Sometimes, I think null-sec alliances are better at foreign policy.


You're attempting to take the moral high ground here? The Republic opened fire on Federation ships, charged into Federation space twice, and now you're taking the moral high ground because the Federation didn't stand by its principles, and here's the important bit, in your eyes?

You're adorable. Try again.
Shintoko Akahoshi
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2013-06-15 14:58:54 UTC
Repentence Tyrathlion wrote:

You're attempting to take the moral high ground here?


Of course! After all, the Federation has robbed them of their most valued possession: their victimhood.

Please, Shakorites and Republicans. Keep telling us how it's all the Federation's fault. You give us all weapons to use against you every time you open your mouths.

Bio and writing

(Nothing I say is indicative of corporate policy unless otherwise stated)

Katarina Musana
Clan Leshya Offworld Venture Enterprise
#35 - 2013-06-15 21:17:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Katarina Musana
Narcisa De Fontaine wrote:
I prefer "state sanctioned murder of Federation Navy personnel" for the sake of accuracy.



Calling a battle murder is beyond gross exageration. The battle at Colelie was a tragedy, yes, and based on current information, never should have happened. Even were there justification for going in, the whole thing was handled terribly from a strategic and tactical standpoint as well.

But yes, that was things getting heated, as in things escalating, which is a far more accurate way of saying it than your biased bullshit.

Repentence Tyrathlion wrote:
You're attempting to take the moral high ground here? The Republic opened fire on Federation ships, charged into Federation space twice, and now you're taking the moral high ground because the Federation didn't stand by its principles, and here's the important bit, in your eyes?

You're adorable. Try again.


Not even remotely trying to take a moral high ground. There is no moral high ground in this whole affair. Moral high ground assumes either side acted with any sort of morality at all. I merely pointed out that Gallentean foreign policy is laughable and amounts to little more than trolling and then acquiescing when things get too hot.

After Colelie, what the Federation should have done, if they wanted to really make a statement of standing by their convictions and being "superior," is not give Broteau to us. Instead, you're brilliant government has told us that if we do want to "throw a tantrum" when we don't get our way, that'll get us what we want. So, not only has the Federation treated us like children, but they've proceeded to show themselves to be terrible parents.

To continue the analogy, if we are indeed children as the Federation seems to think, then congratulations to the Federation for spoiling us and teaching us that brattiness will get us what we want. \o/





Shintoko Akahoshi wrote:
Of course!


Hello, Shintoko. I would remind you from our previous discussions, you're quite aware that I do not believe we had any sort of moral high ground or definitive justification for the battle at Colelie, and that when I point out what the Federation has and is doing wrong, it has nothing to do with whether or not Colelie was justified.

I know you're intelligent enough and competent enough to understand that, so please refrain from these asinine attempts at sarcasm.
Rioghal Morgan
Pixel Navigators
AimogMart
#36 - 2013-06-15 21:39:41 UTC
Katarina Musana wrote:



Calling a battle murder is beyond gross exageration. The battle at Colelie was a tragedy, yes, and based on current information, never should have happened. Even were there justification for going in, the whole thing was handled terribly from a strategic and tactical standpoint as well.

But yes, that was things getting heated, as in things escalating, which is a far more accurate way of saying it than your biased bullshit.


Calling it murder is beyond exaggerating? What, pray tell, would you call it then? An unprovoked attack on an ally in which thousands are killed by their supposed friends can be called nothing else. Besides perhaps an atrocity or a casus belli.
Katarina Musana
Clan Leshya Offworld Venture Enterprise
#37 - 2013-06-16 02:25:31 UTC
Rioghal Morgan wrote:
Katarina Musana wrote:



Calling a battle murder is beyond gross exageration. The battle at Colelie was a tragedy, yes, and based on current information, never should have happened. Even were there justification for going in, the whole thing was handled terribly from a strategic and tactical standpoint as well.

But yes, that was things getting heated, as in things escalating, which is a far more accurate way of saying it than your biased bullshit.


Calling it murder is beyond exaggerating? What, pray tell, would you call it then? An unprovoked attack on an ally in which thousands are killed by their supposed friends can be called nothing else. Besides perhaps an atrocity or a casus belli.



So, then, is the deaths of Republic soldiers aboard the Naglfars murder as well? A battle between soldiers is not murder, unless maybe it's a massacre of defenseless soldiers who are attempting to surrender. Maybe if we had won the battle of Colelie you could try to claim it was murder, but we lost that battle quite decisively.''

Since you seem to lack your own dictionary, here, let me provide the information for you.

mur·der
/ˈmərdər/
Noun
The unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another.
Verb
Kill (someone) unlawfully and with premeditation.

There was a battle, yes. There was death, yes. It was not, by definition, murder. A tragedy, yes, but not murder.
Shintoko Akahoshi
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2013-06-16 03:15:46 UTC
Katarina Musana wrote:

Hello, Shintoko. I would remind you from our previous discussions, you're quite aware that I do not believe we had any sort of moral high ground or definitive justification for the battle at Colelie, and that when I point out what the Federation has and is doing wrong, it has nothing to do with whether or not Colelie was justified.

I know you're intelligent enough and competent enough to understand that, so please refrain from these asinine attempts at sarcasm.


I accept your admission that the Republic had no definitive justification for what, at any other time, would be considered a gross act of war. At the same time, that admission does nothing to resolve the situation. Honestly, do you think it is something that can merely be forgotten? If you believe that, then you truly know absolutely nothing about why I continue, and will continue, to bring up Colelie.

Bio and writing

(Nothing I say is indicative of corporate policy unless otherwise stated)

Rioghal Morgan
Pixel Navigators
AimogMart
#39 - 2013-06-16 03:27:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Rioghal Morgan
Katarina Musana wrote:


So, then, is the deaths of Republic soldiers aboard the Naglfars murder as well? A battle between soldiers is not murder, unless maybe it's a massacre of defenseless soldiers who are attempting to surrender. Maybe if we had won the battle of Colelie you could try to claim it was murder, but we lost that battle quite decisively.''

Since you seem to lack your own dictionary, here, let me provide the information for you.

mur·der
/ˈmərdər/
Noun
The unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another.
Verb
Kill (someone) unlawfully and with premeditation.

There was a battle, yes. There was death, yes. It was not, by definition, murder. A tragedy, yes, but not murder.

Could you possibly be any more condescending and arrogant? Are you even trying to get through to people or are you just enjoying being insufferable? An attack on an allied navy without a declaration of war is unlawful, which makes it murder on a mass scale. Would you say that it isn't murder if the Federation sent a capital fleet into your space and put a fleet of yours to the sword? Of course you would cry foul, because it would be murder. Who the victor is is irrelevant to whether it is murder or not.

Of course the Federation destruction of The Republic fleet isn't murder. You were in our territory, attacking our ships, violating our sovereignty in a fit of pique. I would also remind you that the Republic fired on us first, which in any civilized locale justifies response with lethal force.
Cipher7
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#40 - 2013-06-16 03:33:43 UTC
Rioghal Morgan wrote:

Calling it murder is beyond exaggerating? What, pray tell, would you call it then?


When navies shoot at each other it's usually called a battle.

The hystrionics around here go up an octave by the hour, pretty soon you'll start calling it "the Coleile genocide." Poor Akahoshi seems to be having a nervous breakdown.

Between our moronic government and your moronic citizens, we're sure to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.