Intergalactic Summit

Just my two ISK:

From the perspective of Caldari law, selling POWs into slavery would be an obvious breach of the laws and it doesn't matter if slavery is partly accepted in the Khanid Kingdoms, as the principal office of Pyre is located & legally registered in Caldari Space, namely Nonni, meaning they are considered a legal entity subject to the laws of the State. In which all forms of slavery are forbidden.

Any misconduct against State law - no matter where it was committed - as part of common corporation ethics, would fall under statutes of said law as can be expected for any other civilized nation and prosecuted if sufficient evidence of a: intention or b: facts can be delivered.

However, before the exact details of the proposed deal are not clearly stated, there is neither reason to flame a respectable Caldari corporation ... nor is it too late to approach the approriate committees to evaluate this deal for its legality.

Once again, even though corporations are usually bound with their local representations by local laws, their principal is bound to State law, no matter where. (Though we of course all know some transgressions are harder to prove in some systems than in others...)

Respecting Pyre as a fellow corporation of our great state, I'm pretty sure they know all this and have taken it into account or... eh.. sub-contracted the whole operation to an entity better aware of the legalities with no affiliation to/stock owned by Pyre itself.

Pyre Falcon Defence Combine does - at this point - not own sufficient detention facilities that go beyond locking POWs away. Any suitable facility within the Kingdom would have to offer both the necessary security as well as opportunities for the detainees. Some guidelines would be, despite detention, receiving suitable wages for the work done. The duration of the detention depends on the duration of the war, as is common practice with POWs.
Furthermore, the detainees will not be someone's property, nor are they sold.

Expenses, I reiterate, that would not exist in the first place if you were following your previous scheme of repatriation.


Why do these detention centres need to be placed in the Khanid Kingdom anyway? Why would you bother weathering the obvious suspicion that you must have known building them in the Khanid Kingdom would bring - and please don't pretend you're surprised that people are suspicious, because I credit you with a little more intelligence than could successfully harbour such obliviousness. The State is not precisely choked for space in either hi-sec or low-sec in which you could have built these facilities.

I didn't see you make an argument. You made some noise about True Slave Foundations? Whatever they have to do with anything, other than you saying that you wouldn't really like to work with them? That's nice. Uhh...don't work with them, then? Oh, and you mentioned "comedy" too. That was about it.

Your straw man is in no way a parallel to co-operation between a State corporation and a Khanid contractor. The State and the Kingdom are long standing allies. The Kingdom is a Yulai signatory. If you want to have the slavery debate, pick someone that advocates it and buy them dinner.

I think that Gesakaarin hit the nail on the head when she raises the issue of attitudes to the Kingdom, because that's the axe you've got to grind here. Frankly, I don't care if you don't like the Kingdom much, that's entirely you're prerogative. Why you're getting up in Pyre's face over it, when all they're trying to do is find a better solution for the people they take prisoner, only the ancestors themselves know.

Obviously you are not taking the right action in insulting Pyre officials, Ixiris.

In essence you can either try to appeal to the authorities to check the legality of the venture they are planning.

Or you could check out the conditions of the proposed POW detention camps yourself.
The mere fact that they are out-sourcing into space not part of the State is not a proof.

There's a shocking level of ignorance as regards to Kingdom laws being shown in this thread. I suspect many of you are simply conjuring up some Dark Amarr boogeyman complete with bald head, pointy goatee, and cackling laugh.

The Kingdom has signed a mutual defense pact with the Empire. A person considered a POW by Imperial standards is considered a POW by Royal standards.

A POW is not the same legal entity as a regular criminal.

While we're at it, not all criminals in the Kingdom are collared.

I believe the actions of Pyre to be in their prisoners best interests, Although I do believe they could have been allocated to more appropriate use within Empire space.

There is a significant difference between prison labor and slavery -- as far as I am aware, the Federation uses the former on a regular basis as well still, and sentences of hard labor are fairly common in the State. I have to admit I am not sure why Pyre would outsource such things to the Kingdom, since there are plenty of facilities within the State itself which could house these prisoners, but the principle is sound.

I assume that when hostilities have ended that said prisoners will be turned back over to their respective governments. It is Pyre's obligation to ensure that the conditions they are kept in meet the stipulations of the various treaties governing the treatment of prisoners that the State and Kingdom have both signed under the Yulai accords.

I have to admit I find it rather odd that Pyre would extend preferential hiring to foreign interests, while not doing so for other State interests. While I personally have nothing against House Tash-Murkon or the Royal Khanid Navy, it seems odd to extend them courtesy while denying such to the other five megacorporations of the State. Surely this is an oversight?

I implemented the previous policy of POW repatriation in good faith, in the earnest hopes that the offer would be reciprocated by the Federation. In the months since all that has occurred is disinterest by parties representing the Federation and the Republic, forcing me into a situation where Pyre Falcon Defence Combine was left with a large number of captured enemy combatants rescued during the course of post-engagement search and rescue operations without the appropriate facilities to exercise the legal obligations and duty of care required for their safety, health and well being.



It is fundamentally a question of the duty of care I feel I am obligated to fulfill to the prisoners currently under the corporate jurisdiction of Pyre Falcon Defence Combine. Given the current political instability in the Caldari State and the nature of the origins of the prisoners in question, I cannot in good conscience hand them over to be detained in corporate facilities in the State at this point in time for there is not sufficient guarantee in my mind that their safety can be assured.

Additionally, corporate detainment facilities in the Caldari State in general are designed with the containment of criminals and internal security threats. As a fellow soldier, I do not believe that these facilities are adequate in detaining fellow men and women whose only crime was to undertake their patriotic duties to their nations. It would be a shameful act to treat them with the same standards afforded to criminals, terrorists and violent dissidents.

The Khanid Kingdom offered the best solution at present to ensure that these brave and women who served their nations proudly with dignity and honour but whose war is now over, to be maintained in facilities befitting their status congruent with the regard and respect in which I hold and extend to fellow soldiers.



The shareholders of Pyre Falcon Defence Combine solely represent Kaalakiota, Wiyrkomi and Lai Dai. The nature of the services to be rendered by the corporate military assets of the Combine make permitting the provision of contracts to interests not aligned with Kaalakiota, Wiyrkomi or Lai Dai inimical with the desire to promote long term relationships premised upon a close client-provider relationship within the domestic market of the Caldari State.

Yes, I am sure there is a mutual defense pact.

CONCORD designated contested low security as milita 'warzones.' As far as I know, the only entity to have ever contested Kingdom space is the Empire, and the pact was part of a larger political treaty that involved the Empress acknowledging the sovereignty of the Kingdom.

While we retain our independence, we are a military vassal of the Empire and so are obligated to send requested military aid. As I see Khanid warships only within the Kingdom, I assume that the channeling of Kingdom born capsuleers to Imperial schools sufficiently meets that obligation at this time.

A POW's status is determined by the nation they find themselves in, not the loyalties of whoever captured them. If the Kingdom didn't also consider these combatants captured enemies, they'd lose their POW status the moment they were transported into Kingdom territory.