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Capsules are dangerous

First post
Author
Abon
Pandorum Research Incorporated
#41 - 2013-06-13 14:02:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Abon
Arduemont wrote:
Although I am no physics major or anything, I am pretty sure there would be no g-force in a spaceships. Without an atmosphere or gravity holding us to a nearby object there is no g-force.

"G-force (with g from gravitational) is a measurement of acceleration felt as weight."

If your on a ship generating false gravity for practical purposes you wouldn't feel anything either because your weight is determined relative only to the ships interior environment so anything going on outside is irrelevant.

So, in short, no Gs. Sorry to spoil the fun.

(Also, there is a lot of terrible terrible physics in this thread).

Edit: Not sure that was clear enough. We only experience G-Force on earth because gravity dictates that our weight holds us to a certain spot. Moving fast enough creates the phenomenon where your body is being pulled from that spot forcefully. Without the gravity there and a relative surface to be pulled away from, you don't have a problem. This might still be a problem for no artificial gravity ships accelerating fast away from high mass planets whilst in very very low orbit.


Uh no Newtons gravitational laws apply to the whole universe not just to planet earth, such as gravitation is present in the whole universe.

To quote Newton: "An object in motion stays in motion until acted upon by an outside force."

Means if you emergency stop your Rifter in deep space you will get squeezed between the bulkheads by the inertial forces just like you would be on earth. Thank the dear lord for those inertial dampeners. Gforces have nothing to do with atmosphere or otherwise.

It is one of the great problems of spaceflight, accelerate too fast and your pilot becomes goo. Accelerate in the right manner and it will take weeks and months to reach speeds necessary for actual space travel. Not to mention the problem of E=mc2, meaning the closer you get to the speed of light the more mass you gain. Which means you would need an unlimited amount of fuel to propel you to those speeds which leads to the paradox that you would need even more fuel to transport the fuel! Making this whole thing obviously impossible.

Addendum:

TL,DR: If your ship travels with high speed with you inside and suddenly stops, you will keep going. The outside force stopping you would be the nearest bulkhead. See Star Treks Warp Drive which creates a bubble of space around you with a different set of physical laws thus allowing FTL travel and magic like inertia damps.

To put it in video games terminology: Newtons First Law
Iris Bravemount
Golden Grinding Gears
#42 - 2013-06-13 14:03:40 UTC
Chribba wrote:
Arduemont, from texts I read while doing all this, it said you will still be affected by "force" whilst in a spaceship.

So if you are stationary floating free in the ship, and it accelerates you will find yourself moving towards the back of the ship (away from the direction it is going) you will then be pressed against the wall feeling "force" while not really force created by gravity you will still feel this - and thus I call it gF.

Could have totally read it wrong though.

/c


This is correct.

"I will not hesitate when the test of Faith finds me, for only the strongest conviction will open the gates of paradise. My Faith in you is absolute; my sword is Yours, My God, and Your will guides me now and for all eternity." - Paladin's Creed

Xavier Zedicus
Eidolon Reticulum
#43 - 2013-06-13 14:13:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Xavier Zedicus
Chribba wrote:
Arduemont, from texts I read while doing all this, it said you will still be affected by "force" whilst in a spaceship.

So if you are stationary floating free in the ship, and it accelerates you will find yourself moving towards the back of the ship (away from the direction it is going) you will then be pressed against the wall feeling "force" while not really force created by gravity you will still feel this - and thus I call it gF.

Could have totally read it wrong though.

/c


This seems to be missing the point that
1) in warp your ship isn't actually moving
2) out of warp, noting prevents artificial gravity from being applied horizontally to counteract this effect. It doesnt even need to be applied constantly, just while accelerating ir decelerating, to pull you wikl the ship. Once up to speed regular physics keeps you stationary relative to the ships internals.

Nerf Rock, Paper is fine. - Scissors 

Abon
Pandorum Research Incorporated
#44 - 2013-06-13 14:36:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Abon
Xavier Zedicus wrote:
Chribba wrote:
Arduemont, from texts I read while doing all this, it said you will still be affected by "force" whilst in a spaceship.

So if you are stationary floating free in the ship, and it accelerates you will find yourself moving towards the back of the ship (away from the direction it is going) you will then be pressed against the wall feeling "force" while not really force created by gravity you will still feel this - and thus I call it gF.

Could have totally read it wrong though.

/c


This seems to be missing the point that
1) in warp your ship isn't actually moving
2) out of warp, noting prevents artificial gravity from being applied horizontally to counteract this effect. It doesnt even need to be applied constantly, just while accelerating ir decelerating, to pull you wikl the ship. Once up to speed regular physics keeps you stationary relative to the ships internals.


That is all true the question is do we talk about the theoretical warp drive that actually bends space and pulls our target destination towards us turning light years into mere meters aka "jumping". Or do we talk about the one that forms a bubble of space around you with a new set of physical laws in it allowing you to ignore E=mc2 and reaching FTL speeds. Both suggested models would also protect you from time actually speeding up while travelling at high speeds.

At the moment it seems we won`t need both of them anyways in the future as new theories (especially String Theory) suggests we might be able to simple "phase out" of our dimension and re-enter it at whatever location we wish in a mere microsecond. Theories also suggest that this would be the natural way for a highly advanced civilization to travel space as it is instant and also removes the dangers of deep space travel. Simply travel to orbit, push button, phase out - phase in, be in the orbit of another planet millions of lightyears away. Or another dimension all together, your call! According to String Theory everything vibrates along tiny tiny strings which causes matter to form and all the other weird things. Simply attune yourself to another frequency and bingo! Scientists like to call it "attending another concert". Quite metaphoric.

We know of 11 other existing dimensions so far including our own. Not to mention that the universe splits itself constantly into all possible future outcomes which are unlimited but that is something that causes even the most brilliant scientists massive amounts of hurt in their brains.

Now my personal guess is such things will start to develop once we fully understand gravity (something we really don`t understand even today, is it some form of particle? an electromagnetic force? nobody really knows..). The very moment we are able to manipulate gravity is the same moment we will be able to manipulate space and time since those three are absolutely interwoven with each other.
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#45 - 2013-06-13 14:40:10 UTC
You're always in your pod because that's how the implants work to make you get your skills and bonuses and brain goo to mechanic goo to work properly.

If you're not in your pod, you're not getting ship bonuses, etc.

... Roll

Where I am.

Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
#46 - 2013-06-13 14:43:29 UTC
hahaha!!

Holy crap Chribba, see what you've started ?? LOL !! Lol

Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries
#47 - 2013-06-13 14:54:14 UTC
War Kitten wrote:
Chribba wrote:

We can from the chart see that an unskilled, unfitted titan pilot (and it's crew - NEVER FORGET THE CREW lol) will not have a hard time ..., takes nearly 2 minutes and only be affected by 0.04girlFriend, think we will survive that one pretty good.



4% chance of having a girlfriend if you're a titan pilot?


Seems like a reasonable value.

Having a sticker with "My other ride is a Titan" on your -97 Mazda isn't a significant babe magnet.

ps.
But a high score if you do have a girlfriend and have her drive the car ...
ds.

CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.

Xavier Zedicus
Eidolon Reticulum
#48 - 2013-06-13 14:58:26 UTC
Abon wrote:
Xavier Zedicus wrote:
Chribba wrote:
...
...


That is all true the question is do we talk about the theoretical warp drive that actually bends space and pulls our target destination towards us turning light years into mere meters aka "jumping". Or do we talk about the one that forms a bubble of space around you with a new set of physical laws in it allowing you to ignore E=mc2 and reaching FTL speeds. Both suggested models would also protect you from time actually speeding up while travelling at high speeds.

At the moment it seems we won`t need both of them anyways in the future as new theories (especially String Theory) suggests we might be able to simple "phase out" of our dimension and re-enter it at whatever location we wish in a mere microsecond. Theories also suggest that this would be the natural way for a highly advanced civilization to travel space as it is instant and also removes the dangers of deep space travel. Simply travel to orbit, push button, phase out - phase in, be in the orbit of another planet millions of lightyears away. Or another dimension all together, your call! According to String Theory everything vibrates along tiny tiny strings which causes matter to form and all the other weird things. Simply attune yourself to another frequency and bingo!

We know of 11 other existing dimensions so far including our own. Not to mention that the universe splits itself constantly into all possible future outcomes which are unlimited but that is something that causes even the most brilliant scientists massive amounts of hurt in their brains.

Now my personal guess is such things will start to develop once we fully understand gravity (something we really don`t understand even today, is it some form of particle? an electromagnetic force? nobody really knows..). The very moment we are able to manipulate gravity is the same moment we will be able to manipulate space and time since those three are absolutely interwoven with each other.


Here's the lore. It's the bubble one, as I explained.
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Warp_drives

Nerf Rock, Paper is fine. - Scissors 

Xonus Calimar
CaeIum Incognitum
#49 - 2013-06-13 14:58:27 UTC
Does this mean every time you bump someone, you kill dozens of their (and your own) crew members?
Xavier Zedicus
Eidolon Reticulum
#50 - 2013-06-13 14:59:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Xavier Zedicus
Double post :x

Nerf Rock, Paper is fine. - Scissors 

Abon
Pandorum Research Incorporated
#51 - 2013-06-13 15:07:36 UTC
Xavier Zedicus wrote:
Abon wrote:
Xavier Zedicus wrote:
Chribba wrote:
...
...


That is all true the question is do we talk about the theoretical warp drive that actually bends space and pulls our target destination towards us turning light years into mere meters aka "jumping". Or do we talk about the one that forms a bubble of space around you with a new set of physical laws in it allowing you to ignore E=mc2 and reaching FTL speeds. Both suggested models would also protect you from time actually speeding up while travelling at high speeds.

At the moment it seems we won`t need both of them anyways in the future as new theories (especially String Theory) suggests we might be able to simple "phase out" of our dimension and re-enter it at whatever location we wish in a mere microsecond. Theories also suggest that this would be the natural way for a highly advanced civilization to travel space as it is instant and also removes the dangers of deep space travel. Simply travel to orbit, push button, phase out - phase in, be in the orbit of another planet millions of lightyears away. Or another dimension all together, your call! According to String Theory everything vibrates along tiny tiny strings which causes matter to form and all the other weird things. Simply attune yourself to another frequency and bingo!

We know of 11 other existing dimensions so far including our own. Not to mention that the universe splits itself constantly into all possible future outcomes which are unlimited but that is something that causes even the most brilliant scientists massive amounts of hurt in their brains.

Now my personal guess is such things will start to develop once we fully understand gravity (something we really don`t understand even today, is it some form of particle? an electromagnetic force? nobody really knows..). The very moment we are able to manipulate gravity is the same moment we will be able to manipulate space and time since those three are absolutely interwoven with each other.


Here's the lore. It's the bubble one, as I explained.
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Warp_drives


Very nice, thank you.

So we now can assume that as soon as you hit the warp button in EVE a bubble gets established around your ship creating a tiny sub space with a new set of physical laws simply excluding Newtons Laws and therefore inertia. I wonder what else you could do...

Your pods are safe guys. Lol
De'Veldrin
Adversity.
Psychotic Tendencies.
#52 - 2013-06-13 15:12:33 UTC
Arduemont wrote:
Although I am no physics major or anything, I am pretty sure there would be no g-force in a spaceships. Without an atmosphere or gravity holding us to a nearby object there is no g-force.

"G-force (with g from gravitational) is a measurement of acceleration felt as weight."

If your on a ship generating false gravity for practical purposes you wouldn't feel anything either because your weight is determined relative only to the ships interior environment so anything going on outside is irrelevant.

So, in short, no Gs. Sorry to spoil the fun.

(Also, there is a lot of terrible terrible physics in this thread).

Edit: Not sure that was clear enough. We only experience G-Force on earth because gravity dictates that our weight holds us to a certain spot. Moving fast enough creates the phenomenon where your body is being pulled from that spot forcefully. Without the gravity there and a relative surface to be pulled away from, you don't have a problem. This might still be a problem for no artificial gravity ships accelerating fast away from high mass planets whilst in very very low orbit.


It's pretty obvious from your post here that not only are you not a physics major, you've never studied the subject in any meaningful fashion.

Please stop embarrassing yourself.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.

Abon
Pandorum Research Incorporated
#53 - 2013-06-13 15:15:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Abon
Xonus Calimar wrote:
Does this mean every time you bump someone, you kill dozens of their (and your own) crew members?


Depends on the mass of the ship and the speed of the bump. But i think we can be pretty certain that sickbay will have to deal with a lot of broken bones and smashed heads in any possible scenario. Big smile

Addendum:

This applies to both ships! While one rapidly accelerates the other one rapidly deaccelerates. Both sickbays would have their hands full.
Mal Tink
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2013-06-13 15:18:07 UTC
There is some badass trolling right there at the first post.. damn.
Darvaleth Sigma
Imperial Security Hegemony
#55 - 2013-06-13 15:24:20 UTC
You forget, the Capsule itself is flying through liquid... Eve's a submarine game, remember?

Give a man a match and you warm him for a day.

Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life!

Knights Armament
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#56 - 2013-06-13 15:24:42 UTC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGZoMPXG0MI

those are the astronauts of the future, maybe we'll be able to put our brains inside of one.

My idea is clear and simple, we'll use 3d printers to make satellites in space, sprinkle these satellites around then download our consciousness onto very small androids. The internet is the key to space travel, we'll be able to bounce signals off our networks in space at light speed, and back, faster than sending some rocket.

Once we've networked space, we can utilize 3d printing technology to build entire colonies on mars, and the moon. Humans can't survive in space due to the high amounts of radiation, and the effects of no or reduced gravity on our skeleton. So we have to upgrade. http://wiiudaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/deus-ex_-human-revolution-wallpapers.jpg
Abon
Pandorum Research Incorporated
#57 - 2013-06-13 15:28:40 UTC
This is all you nerds need to calculate all the bumping. Lol

Those laws apply when the ship is not enclosed in a warp bubble and in normal space time.

First law: An object at rest remains at rest unless acted upon by a force. An object in motion remains in motion, and at a constant velocity, unless acted upon by a force.

Second law: The acceleration of a body is directly proportional to, and in the same direction as, the net force acting on the body, and inversely proportional to its mass. Thus, F = ma, where F is the net force acting on the object, m is the mass of the object and a is the acceleration of the object.

Third law:
When one body exerts a force on a second body, the second body simultaneously exerts a force equal in magnitude and opposite in direction to that of the first body.

Sir Isaac Newton is indeed the most deadly ************ in the universe.
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#58 - 2013-06-13 15:45:24 UTC
Chribbas maths are wrong. He forgot to compensate for a fluid universe.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?

Echo Echoplex
#59 - 2013-06-13 15:59:20 UTC
Holy Veldspar, I'm posting to a Chribba thread just because I can ftw!

o7

Untutored courage is useless in the face of educated bullets. Gen. George S. Patton

Abon
Pandorum Research Incorporated
#60 - 2013-06-13 16:05:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Abon
Knights Armament wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGZoMPXG0MI

those are the astronauts of the future, maybe we'll be able to put our brains inside of one.

My idea is clear and simple, we'll use 3d printers to make satellites in space, sprinkle these satellites around then download our consciousness onto very small androids. The internet is the key to space travel, we'll be able to bounce signals off our networks in space at light speed, and back, faster than sending some rocket.

Once we've networked space, we can utilize 3d printing technology to build entire colonies on mars, and the moon. Humans can't survive in space due to the high amounts of radiation, and the effects of no or reduced gravity on our skeleton. So we have to upgrade. http://wiiudaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/deus-ex_-human-revolution-wallpapers.jpg


Cool idea i like it but as i stated above you simply circumvent all that by dimensional shifting or a warp drive. Not to mention that you stay "intact" when travelling like that.

Recent studies in neurology turned out some interesting facts. It seems our brains are not just amazing and mysterious organs but are also in some way linked to our reality on a quantum level. This is very interesting as neurology and physics reach a point where they cross paths. Don`t forget!! THIS IS IMPORTANT! When experiments are commited in the fields of quantum mechanics the outcome is depending on the presence of an observer!!! Therefore the universe is aware of your and our presence at all times and you influence it the whole time without actually noticing it. This is a HUGE mystery as what we believe to be "dead atoms" seems to be aware of our presence and reacting to it.

There have been some experiments showing that even before somebody decides to move or do something there is measurable but unexplainable activity in your brain before the decision happens sometimes lasting up as long as seconds. This is NOT the actual process of deciding, it happens BEFORE that and we are unaware of it.
Some scientists described it as "like a phone call on an old analog line overseas". Further studies seem to show that while you think your conciousness in "in your body" it seems to be actually not. Rather more you are "linked in" your body from a quantum level by some kind of invisible universal tether and what can be measured in the brain roughly translates to "lag". Highly theoretical i might add.

If this turns out to be true someday i highly doubt we will ever be able to transfer our whole conciousness to a device or another body because this "disconnect" already occurs on a daily basis and we tend to call it "death". This is some highly metaphysical stuff of course..maybe we will never know for certain. I personally think we simply relog to a new existence after death as our old "machine" aka body gets broken and there is no big fuzz about it like religions try to nail into our heads.

Maybe we will able to "reroute" ourselves someday by our own choice but i believe while we might be able to play with physical laws there are some universal override mechanics in place which we will never be able to access or manipulate.