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Evolve or Perish - Discussion on whats in horizon for EvE-Online in MMO world

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Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#21 - 2013-06-13 13:32:24 UTC
tl;dr:

I am too cheap to pay a sub for my entertainment, so lets make EVE F2P.

☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Harry Forever
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#22 - 2013-06-13 13:35:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Harry Forever
I think F2P has a negative impact on quality of the game as well as on the community, quality because the developers will have to look at selling stuff over ingame stores and concentrate on that so the focus shifts, and for the community because many random characters can be created who just post **** or hack like it happened in planetside 2 ...if you have nothing to loose you tend to not taking things serious anymore

everybody says F2P is the future, however for the long run I'm not convinced that it is the right move, for me when i hear F2P i first think of games where the developers try to squeeze out customers over ingame stores, it tends to make customer addictive about new stuff and goodies, but what should make a game addictive is the game itself

EvE at this point however managed to not cross the line, the Plex system i think is a good idea, I do not have problems with that

Harry Forever vs. Goonswarm
Norian Lonark
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2013-06-13 13:35:31 UTC
EVE does not need F2P model, leave that for DUST.

From what I have seen of F2P games its really pay to win and also not free at all with companies racking it in via micro transactions and store purchases.



Start wide, expand further, and never look back
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#24 - 2013-06-13 13:36:39 UTC
Norian Lonark wrote:
EVE does not need F2P model, leave that for DUST.


Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that EVE already has the F2P model that suits it best.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Prince Kobol
#25 - 2013-06-13 13:40:45 UTC
Norian Lonark wrote:
EVE does not need F2P model, leave that for DUST.

From what I have seen of F2P games its really pay to win and also not free at all with companies racking it in via micro transactions and store purchases.





There are some F2P games which work very well such as LoL, WoT, etc

They work work well as they have been designed from the ground up to be F2P and the devs understand that if all it takes is a bit of money to **** all before them then people wont sign up for it.
RomeStar
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#26 - 2013-06-13 13:46:55 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
It's also worth noting that EVE is very high-maintenence. CCP have to reinvest a lot of their income into EVE to keep it successful.


Is that why we have dust?

Signatured removed, CCP Phantom
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#27 - 2013-06-13 13:52:38 UTC
RomeStar wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
It's also worth noting that EVE is very high-maintenence. CCP have to reinvest a lot of their income into EVE to keep it successful.


Is that why we have dust?


No one consulted me when it came to deciding on DUST's monetization model, but at least it was designed from the ground up to be a F2P game. Since CCP explicitly wanted DUST to add a casual gameplay option to interact with the EVE universe, than a F2P model is at least a less unreasonable idea than it would be for EVE.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Jason Xado
Doomheim
#28 - 2013-06-13 13:56:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Jason Xado
EvE is already free to play. Has been for a very long time.

EvE was F2P before it was cool and trendy.
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#29 - 2013-06-13 13:57:22 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
+1

I do sometimes wish that people who have these ideas would realize that just because something is classes as an "mmo" that it's not like all other "MMOs".

It just like how people think all "countries" are equal because they are countries. There is a HUGE difference between a "country" like China and a "country" like San Marino lol.

Same with EVE, what works in other games just wouldn't work in EVE without turning EVE into....those other games.


I also wanted to say that I played both games (for a very short time that still seems to long in hind sight) and believe that both of the afore mentioned games are a horrible blight on humanity and deserve to be purged from the internet with the utmost brutality possible.

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#30 - 2013-06-13 14:10:13 UTC
Doc Fury wrote:
tl;dr:

I am too cheap to pay a sub for my entertainment, so lets make EVE F2P.


+1

Well, i am too, thus i use plex lol.

EVE doesn't have "free to play" it has "free for ME to play because someone else paid for me". And Thank God it has.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#31 - 2013-06-13 14:14:25 UTC
Davelantor wrote:


somedays when i log in i see roughly 23K online, where as i used to see close to 50K.




I'm not gonna argue with your post, but I found this statement curious.

EVE has regularly had over 50,000 online during the time of day approaching Peak Time for at least the last 7 months since the release of Retribution.

Weekends have been seeing 60,000 +.

I'm not gonna check the rest of the post. Better things to do.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#32 - 2013-06-13 14:20:35 UTC
Chribba wrote:
I for one would not want to see it go F2P. I think the "hardcore" community that we have is thanks to the fact that it takes time and money to really get into it. F2P we will see an influx of "not to serious" players that I think overall will lower the standards even if CCP goes even more profit-wise.

As for the numbers, not sure how that changed for you bc I still see 50k+ online and we've been holding pretty high numbers lately compared to before - http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility

/c


Exactly this^

F2P spells doom.

Also, posting in yet another (stealth) "EVE is dying thread and will die if you don't do what I say because here is the proof"

*facepalm*

COO - Bene Gesserit Chapterhouse  CEO - Sanctuary Pact Alliance
Lord Ryan
True Xero
#33 - 2013-06-13 14:25:53 UTC
Davelantor wrote:
Tippia wrote:
What would there be to pay for to make up for the “free” part?
What would (and could) be left free without upsetting the PvP balance?


1) There can be area access restrictions, or fees
2) Free can be compensated with None pay 2 win systems like increased SP gain or even down to mission and NPC bounty rewards
3) Cosmetic items, Hell, MORE cosmetic items, show me one merc that doesnt want to decorate his/her ship with the corpses :P
4) It doesnt even have to be "Every aspect of the game be free" kind of deal. Just saying, there are a lot of ways to go about this.
5) Like trial restriction there can be restrictions on the number of ships the person owns or even if they can be CEO or not.
6) Dust 514 is going free to play, any or all of the F2P market tactics they employed could be used for this.

You dont need to give people FREE STUFF just because its F2P, PvP balance will still be the same

This probably made sense in your language.

Do not assume anything above this line was typed by me. Nerf the Truth, it's inconvenient.
Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights
#34 - 2013-06-13 14:32:09 UTC
-1. Came expecting a discussion. Left when the idea at hand was free to play.

Really? That's it? Eve has to adapt into a free to play game?

If that had been one of five or ten ideas - ok. But as the single piece... pass.
Miriya Feydienne
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#35 - 2013-06-13 14:33:34 UTC
EVE does not need a Free-to-Play model. It is an MMO that provides quality content which players are willing to pay a subscription fee through the means currently available to us. Having played both SW:TOR and DCUO, in my opinion both those games needed to transition to a hybrid "Sub/F2P" model in order to survive due to a myriad of issues: lack of/poor overall content, class balancing, etc. However, as some have mentioned, there are F2P games that are successful because that is how they were designed from the outset. The client base there is willing to pay for additional content from the online cash shop to augment their game experience.

CCP offers the free game trial for those players who are curious/looking for a new game to enjoy. The trial gives a pretty decent glimpse into the EVE universe and how it and the players work. It does not need a F2P model to "attract then hopefully hook" new customers.
Q 5
999 HOLDINGS LLC
#36 - 2013-06-13 14:36:51 UTC
Evolution?

Take a moment to think, if you lived in Iceland, a country with limited job prospects, and you are CEO of eve, your family lives comfortable, people you employ depend on that paycheck from you, bills, debt on top of all this competition.

What do you do?

Change the business model that has worked for 10+ years?

Switch over to an unproven model that drops steady income in favor of FP and hopes of income from other sources?

All the time and investment, blood, sweat and tears,

WWJD?
Shock
Interim Industries
#37 - 2013-06-13 14:37:18 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
I could write a whole article on this, and maybe I will, but for now I'll tl;dr it into a few lines:

(1) P2P games going F2P is a good idea for MMOs that follow the traditional themepark trajectory of hype -> box sales -> peak subs -> asymptotic decline. EVE's subscription graph looks very different and CCP get more money from subs every year, and this trend shows no sign of changing. In fact for the last 18 months, EVE's subs have increased, and the rate of increase is itself accelerating. There is considerable financial pressure on CCP to maintain a subscription model that has been highly successful.

(2) As said above, most MMOs are structured around consumable content. Once you'd ridden all the rides, there's not all that much to stick around for. At this point, the publisher might as well offer a F2P option and harvet what cash it can from you via the cash shop, as that's preferrable to losing you as a customer altogether. In contrast, everything about EVE is structured to encourage and reward players for maintaining a subscription, and lapsed EVE players are very likely to return.

(3) EVE already has a very advanced and flexible payment scheme, that was far ahead of its time when it was introduced and has been extremely lucrative for CCP. PLEX system already offers a "free to play" option that doesn't cause the problems that the tradtional cash-shop model, and I find it hard to believe that CCP would make more money from selling pixel clothes to us than they do from PLEX.


They indeed do.

The majority of the EVE community thoroughly disapproves of EVE becoming a full free to play game (other than the PLEX option). This was a major force behind the Incarna community lash back.

Going F2P over subscription model would be nothing but slaughtering the golden goose for a quick meal.
Stetson Eagle
Paird Technology
#38 - 2013-06-13 14:55:04 UTC
Chribba wrote:
I for one would not want to see it go F2P. I think the "hardcore" community that we have is thanks to the fact that it takes time and money to really get into it. F2P we will see an influx of "not to serious" players that I think overall will lower the standards even if CCP goes even more profit-wise.

As for the numbers, not sure how that changed for you bc I still see 50k+ online and we've been holding pretty high numbers lately compared to before - http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility

/c


Offtopic, whats that boost in the new characters curve? The part where it suddenly doubles. Power of two? Recruit-a-friend?
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#39 - 2013-06-13 15:01:09 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Doc Fury wrote:
tl;dr:

I am too cheap to pay a sub for my entertainment, so lets make EVE F2P.


+1

Well, i am too, thus i use plex lol.

EVE doesn't have "free to play" it has "free for ME to play because someone else paid for me". And Thank God it has.



All "F2P" is "free for ME to play because someone else paid for me". The PLEX system just makes the relationship a little more direct.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Solaris Ecladia
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#40 - 2013-06-13 15:02:17 UTC
F2P isnt really free to play in the first place. The only way youll get a free game is if you go pirate a single player game and tell the devs to suck a fat one.