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Capsules are dangerous

First post
Author
Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
#1 - 2013-06-13 09:10:31 UTC
After a bit of research and math calculations I've come to the conclusion that Capsules are among the most dangerous ships in-game (when/if you put some reality on it).

tl;dr Capsules are evil and we all should feel pretty hammered when going into warp.

This whole thing started out by a chat on IRC, where the statement was made (Akiraa) about an Itty5 turning to align and the g-force (gF) the pilot and crew would experience, and it turned out to be quite high.

This got me curious a bit, and I'm by far no math genius or anything (more to the dumb side tbh lol) - but I do have Rocket Science IV so that should definitely make up for it and make this like 100% valid and such Lol

I started out following Akiraa's path and began looking at the forces of ships turning, I realized that this might not be the way to go as when align for warp you will not always do like 180 degree turns making the centrifugal force be constant.

So instead I decided to look into the pure acceleration in a straight line into warp and what gF the pilot and crew experience. Now for those of you that just went tl;dr and comment about how the pod goo protects you and such while that do minimize the effects on the force it doesn't take it away, plus when it comes to us sitting in the ships we can see in the videos that we are clearly not in our pod at the time soooo... P (also take note that for best protection we'd also need to breath liquid to prevent internal damage).


On to the findings! - made up a little chart (column titles clickable for sorting) - http://eve-files.com/chribba/gf.html

I've tried to calculate the gF from a ship being still accelerating to the point it hits warp (align time in this case (seconds)), plain ship, as well as with skills applied and modules. The modules used to make it easier is just Inertia ones, and to make my calculations easier I made all modules do a bonus of 17% (up to 6 modules (rigs included) at the most).


We can from the chart see that an unskilled, unfitted titan pilot (and it's crew - NEVER FORGET THE CREW lol) will not have a hard time while getting into warp, takes nearly 2 minutes and only be affected by 0.04gF, think we will survive that one pretty good. Even so with full skills and modules we sure will warp quicker but the effects are marginal still with around 0.2gF. Freighters still keeping it a very smooth (and slow) ride.

The gF will ramp up a bit as we sit into smaller, more agile ships, we would probably start to feel a bit sitting in a battleship but probably not that bad at all.

As we jump into the cruisers we would start feeling 3-8gF hitting warp, tough for both pilots and crews (except if you fly Amarr though as I doubt they'd really care about the slaves in their cargo).

Get into the frigates and there's some serious forces at work, the smoother rides give you forces around 10gF probably making most pass out without support and upwards to 25gF (not sure how many of us are still awake at that moment).

Grabbing a shuttle and you will experience close to 32gF - and think of so many flying around in those on a daily basis, we should be feeling pretty bad after every jump.

But then if you happened to lose that ship climbing into your pod and trying to warp away from your aggressors - you will experience close to 240gF as you make your getaway! (That goo better be good and filling your lungs if you are supposed to survive this - if you actually read this far post a comment about how much my math sucks for the giggles). So a Capsule is by far the most lethal ship for us to fly, thankfully it all seems to be kept together - magic? Blink

There's some special ships there, that out-forces the Capsule, all dev ships though - so devs should be long gone too if it wasn't for the space magic (and fiction ofc) - the poor EVE TV pilots sustain over 4000gF with their special camera ships.

So all in all there's some forces out there we play with - and the crew that you never thought about rescue when your ship goes boom (prolly bc they died when you pushed 30gF warping from that last gate anyway). I never thought Rocket Science IV would come in handy... and it probably didn't either because the science freaks will rip this apart and point out all the errors I made (but hey +1 post lol).

Formulas:
Align time: -LN(0,25) * MASS * Inertia / 1000000
gF: ((0,75 * Speed) / AlignTime) / 9,807
Align with skills: Bonus from Navigation, Spaceship Command, Advanced SC, Capital Ships (where it applies) and getting
Speed with skills: Same as above
With modules: Same as above + stacking of up to 6x17% inertia modules (depending on slot layout of ship)

Bonus points for those who want to dig into mixing overdrives/inertia and nomad/snake sets for optimal combo of gF ratio Twisted
Bonus points for being drunk and replacing gF with 'girlfriend' and read it all over (let me know how it turns out).

/c

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Darth Skorpius
352 Industries
#2 - 2013-06-13 09:27:21 UTC
I'm pretty sure our ships have Initerial Stabilizers to help help minimize ge-forces, pods especially so.
Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
#3 - 2013-06-13 09:28:34 UTC
I know you have taken a light-hearted approach to this, but it's such an interesting read and made me laugh quite a bit ! Lol

Pretty good theory stuff, maths is not way out, you're pretty smack on the ball there.

I claim that all of the ships, pods included, are automagically equipped with inertia dampeners Big smile

I mean come on, it can't just be Star Trek ships using those essential modules P

Nice write-up, thanks Chribba!!

o7
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#4 - 2013-06-13 09:33:46 UTC
They're also designed to kill you, so... yep.
Peter Powers
Terrorists of Dimensions
#5 - 2013-06-13 09:34:45 UTC
Quote:
"Several Indy car drivers have withstood impacts in excess of 100 G without serious injuries." Dennis F. Shanahan, M.D., M.P.H.: "Human Tolerance and Crash Survivability, citing Society of Automotive Engineers. Indy racecar crash analysis.


the acceleration of a capsule is a pretty short burst of g's as well, also i'm sure that the technology in eve offers some solutions that help..

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Liafcipe9000
Critically Preposterous
#6 - 2013-06-13 09:35:23 UTC
240 girlfriendz...
One must really love his Exotic Dancers if he can shove so many into his pod(which would be supeer smeggin' tight btw Big smile )
Kris Xavier
State War Academy
Caldari State
#7 - 2013-06-13 09:39:17 UTC
To reduce discomfort and increase the safety of ALL pod pilots it is recommended that every one now fly supers. This is what i have learned from your exercise.

Thank you for bringing some sense to eve online Chribba.
Chi'Nane T'Kal
Interminatus
#8 - 2013-06-13 09:42:10 UTC
You should read Simmons' Endymion trilogy. He has a nice approach on hyper-acceleration/deceleration ;).
Bischopt
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2013-06-13 09:45:11 UTC
You should always try and get people out of their pods so they don't injure themselves by pullin' a few G's.

Also, posting in a Chribba thread.
Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
#10 - 2013-06-13 09:46:30 UTC
Kris Xavier wrote:
To reduce discomfort and increase the safety of ALL pod pilots it is recommended that every one now fly supers. This is what i have learned from your exercise.

Thank you for bringing some sense to eve online Chribba.

haha exactly my point! lmao And beneficial for securing trades too... I like this! Lol

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Dilligafmofo
3WAYFOUNDATIONS
#11 - 2013-06-13 09:46:58 UTC
Remember folks, clunk, click, every trip.

Seat belts save lives !!
Hesod Adee
Perkone
Caldari State
#12 - 2013-06-13 09:47:55 UTC
Darth Skorpius wrote:
I'm pretty sure our ships have Initerial Stabilizers to help help minimize ge-forces, pods especially so.

Stations have artificial gravity. The only difference between that and inertial dampeners would be the strength, direction and duration of the artificial gravity step.

AG generates a constant 1g of gravity in a fixed direction. Inertial dampeners need to produce similar g forces to the engine to counter acceleration. The closer the match, the less that needs to be dealt with by other means to bring it down to survivable levels.

Now, countering the g forces of rotation is trickier, as neither the direction or strength of the g forces is constant across the ship.
mr ed thehouseofed
Wrought iron Industries
#13 - 2013-06-13 09:56:48 UTC
Capsules are evil and we all should feel pretty hammered when going into warp.

i'm always hammered when i fly mine Shocked probably the reason i'm in them so much LolLol


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CCP Falcon
#14 - 2013-06-13 09:59:46 UTC
Inertial Dampers, mate. Blink

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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#15 - 2013-06-13 09:59:47 UTC
We get into warp by changing the nature of the space around the ship. G-forces no longer apply since we've actually changed the rules of physics in that little bubble of space-time.

The people to be concerned about are those who happen to be near the edge of the bubble due to the tidal shearing of space-time that occurs at the interface between normal space and warped space.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#16 - 2013-06-13 10:05:32 UTC
A lot depends on how long those forces are applied. Even the cheapest mechanical hard disks are certified to withstand very short 60g shocks.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#17 - 2013-06-13 10:06:56 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
We get into warp by changing the nature of the space around the ship. G-forces no longer apply since we've actually changed the rules of physics in that little bubble of space-time.

The people to be concerned about are those who happen to be near the edge of the bubble due to the tidal shearing of space-time that occurs at the interface between normal space and warped space.


Ships accelerate to pre-warp speed with those accelerations and only then the physics change as warp is initiated.
Mdfka Jones
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2013-06-13 10:22:44 UTC
Did you notice that ships stop instantly before going in to warp?
I mean all happens in the following sequence:
hit warp (warp drive active); ship aligns/accelerates to about 75% of its maximum speed; stops instantly and warps off.

I bet that instant stop always kills the crew. That's why my ships keep exploding in combat. I knew it. It couldn't be my fault! Thank you so much for pointing this out! Big smile
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#19 - 2013-06-13 10:36:17 UTC
Any answers to why a ship enters warp at 75% of their maximal speed, regardless of what that speed might be?

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Jake Warbird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2013-06-13 10:43:21 UTC
Jowen Datloran wrote:
Any answers to why a ship enters warp at 75% of their maximal speed, regardless of what that speed might be?

And everyone loses their minds...
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