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Royal Rumble, Eve Online v Star Trek v Star Gate v Star Wars!!

Author
Rogue Lawyer
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2013-06-12 21:05:02 UTC
Hello.

As I was playing the game earlier I had Star Gate on TV in the back ground, it had me thinking being a Sci-Fi fan, which space series has best ships and how would Eveonline Technology compare with the others. I know you can't do an absolute stat comparison but one can try and have a bit of fun as well.

So, if a location in space was selected and a royal rumble was called and all the ships in Eve, Star Gate, Star Wars, Star Trek were thrown in who would rein supreme.
Horatius Caul
Kitzless
#2 - 2013-06-12 21:33:29 UTC
Star Wars is fantasy, so any discussion trying to apply a scientific angle will find little of value there.

Rogue Lawyer
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2013-06-12 21:38:09 UTC
Horatius Caul wrote:
Star Wars is fantasy, so any discussion trying to apply a scientific angle will find little of value there.



I suppose that can be applied to Star Wars, but Star Trek and Star Gate have more scientific angle about how their ships work.
Cipher Deninard
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-06-12 21:58:25 UTC
I vote Battlestar Galactica ;D
Rogue Lawyer
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2013-06-12 22:04:29 UTC
Cipher Deninard wrote:
I vote Battlestar Galactica ;D


Interesting, totally forgot about that one, but thinking about it the ships in Battlestar Galatica would probably get owned.
Desuke Aramaki
Perkone
Caldari State
#6 - 2013-06-13 05:41:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Desuke Aramaki
I'm afraid star trek loose badly since cheese (yes cheese thats how ridiculous star trek tech is) and computer virus create chaos onboard star trek ships that can lead to their destruction.

Like other biological forms, gel packs were susceptible to bacteria and viruses. As such, heating them could remove such infections. (VOY: "Learning Curve")
◾ They were infected with bacteria due to cheese created by Neelix. (VOY: "Learning Curve")
◾ A gel pack in the mess hall was infected with a macrovirus, and led to an outbreak when it ruptured. (VOY: "Macrocosm")
◾ During a voyage through a Mutara-class nebula, the gel packs began to fail due to subnucleonic radiation. (VOY: "One")


http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Bio-neural_gel_pack

After arriving to Iconia, the Yamato received an Iconian software transmission and was unable to continue the investigation due to random system failures, later on discovered to have been caused by the software. An engineering team of 18 personnel were killed when the force field in a shuttlebay was shut down. The Yamato left Iconia to rendezvous with the Enterprise-D to solve the malfunctions and convince Captain Jean-Luc Picard to continue with the exploration of Iconia. The IRW Haakona under cloak detected the Yamato and copied its log transmissions to the Enterprise-D, while it was traveling to the rendezvous.

After the Yamato had arrived closer to the Federation side of the Neutral Zone, a position twelve hours and sixteen minutes away from Iconia at warp 8. The Iconian software caused an antimatter containment failure. The magnetic seals around the dilithium chamber collapsed, and the computer initiated the emergency release system to dump the Yamato's supply of antimatter. However, the program caused the release to halt with antimatter remaining within the ship, resulting in a warp core breach. While the saucer section was thrown free of the breach, the hull disintegrated, exposing all its decks to space. The Yamato was lost with all hands. (TNG: "Contagion")


http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/USS_Yamato
Desuke Aramaki
Perkone
Caldari State
#7 - 2013-06-13 05:44:15 UTC
Rogue Lawyer wrote:
Hello.

As I was playing the game earlier I had Star Gate on TV in the back ground, it had me thinking being a Sci-Fi fan, which space series has best ships and how would Eveonline Technology compare with the others. I know you can't do an absolute stat comparison but one can try and have a bit of fun as well.

So, if a location in space was selected and a royal rumble was called and all the ships in Eve, Star Gate, Star Wars, Star Trek were thrown in who would rein supreme.


Its actually possible to do a stat comparison. Again, star trek loose badly : http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Essays/FiveMinutes.html
Desuke Aramaki
Perkone
Caldari State
#8 - 2013-06-13 05:51:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Desuke Aramaki
Other examples of how ''great'' star trek engineering is.

Star Trek Safety

Does Star Trek engineering follow any of the principles described above? Read the following excerpts from the script of the 37th TNG episode ("Contagion"):

Worf: Sir, there is an energy build-up in the Yamato's engineering section.
Picard: Yamato, this is the Enterprise, come in Yamato.
WORF: Magnetic seals in the antimatter chamber decaying!
(The USS Yamato blows up)
...
Laforge (pointing at schematic of Yamato engine room): Sensor recordings reveal that what we witnessed was an uncontrolled and catastrophic matter/antimatter mix. The magnetic seals between the chambers collapsed --
Picard: That's not possible.
Laforge: Yes, sir, it is, but a highly improbable series of events has to take place before such an occurrence can result.
Picard: Explain.
Laforge: In the event of a breach of seal integrity there is an emergency release system which dumps the antimatter.
Data: Apparently such a dump began, was then halted, and the containment seals were dropped. There was still sufficient antimatter present to lead to the result we observed.
...
(They discover that the Enterprise is infected with the same computer virus that destroyed Yamato)
Laforge: Sir, the Enterprise computer system is a lot like our bodies with a voluntary and involuntary system. Probably ninety percent of what happens on this ship is done automatically, completely beyond our control. We're sitting on a bomb that could go any second -- or never.

Of course, this is just one of many near-disasters. If I had a dollar for every time the Enterprise nearly blew up, I'd be a rich man. Two of the most obvious problems are described in the dialogue above: emergency measures are unreliable, and the entire system, as conceptualized by the show's writers and tech advisors, is inherently unsafe. Not only do the fictional engineers of Star Trek ignore the sensible and time-tested engineering risk management principles of redundancy, diversity, isolation, and failure actuation, but whenever possible, they actually do the exact opposite! Consider:
1.
Instead of minimizing excess reactivity, they seem to be doing everything in their power to increase it. Evidence of the high excess reactivity of a warp core can be found every time one of 'em blows up. For example, in "Generations", they knew the reactor was going to blow five minutes before it actually did, and they couldn't do anything but evacuate. In "Disaster", we saw a similar scenario; the reactor was counting down to doomsday throughout the entire second half of the episode. The only way they could stop these catastrophes was to eject the entire warp core or restore the containment field. You would think that they could simply shut off the flow of antimatter into the chamber (or at the very least, redirect it out into space), but it appears that even if they do so, the warp core contains enough unreacted fuel at any time to destroy the entire ship. It's a textbook example of extreme excess reactivity.

2.
Instead of redundancy and diversity, they seem to have just one system for any given function. In "Contagion", they described exactly one emergency antimatter storage dump, whose failure caused the total destruction of the USS Yamato. In "The Naked Now", we found that the ship only has one central computer core, whose partial disassembly left the Enterprise helpless in the path of an oncoming chunk of iron. In several combat incidents, all of the weapons on the entire ship were disabled by a single hit. In "Generations", we found that they have only one warp core ejection system, and when it failed, the ship was doomed. They may occasionally speak of redundancy but they've given no evidence of it, so it seems apparent that the Enterprise lacks either redundancy or diversity (or both) in its critical systems.

3.
Instead of isolating critical systems from one another, they actually merge them as much as possible! All of the ship's systems share everything from physical enclosures to sensors and of course, a common centralized computer. That is why a virus was able to spread into every conceivable system on the entire ship after starting from just one point in "Contagion", rapidly affecting everything from doors to turbolifts, replicators, lighting, weapons, shields, communications, and of course, the warp core. Instead of envisioning multiple independent systems, some of which are isolated and some of which exchange data with one another, the writers chose to envision a single "Big Brother" computer which runs everything. It knows when you've been sleeping ... it knows when you're awake ... it knows when you've been bad or good, so be good for goodness' sake ...

4.
Instead of employing the "dead man's switch" principle, their entire design principle is to make the ship utterly dependent, minute by minute, second by second, on the continued operation of numerous active systems. Without the much-ballyhooed structural integrity field, the ship won't even hold together. Without various force fields and containment systems, the ship will explode in a fraction of a second. Even when they take a biohazard on board, they contain it exclusively with a forcefield, which means that the lives of the entire crew are dependent on the continued operation, millisecond by millisecond, of some forcefield generator. I know that bottles and walls may seem "primitive" to the pinheads who write the show, but they work. And in engineering, you use what works. Not necessarily the latest and greatest.


http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Essays/Engineering.html
Desuke Aramaki
Perkone
Caldari State
#9 - 2013-06-13 06:06:49 UTC
Rogue Lawyer wrote:
Hello.

As I was playing the game earlier I had Star Gate on TV in the back ground, it had me thinking being a Sci-Fi fan, which space series has best ships and how would Eveonline Technology compare with the others. I know you can't do an absolute stat comparison but one can try and have a bit of fun as well.

So, if a location in space was selected and a royal rumble was called and all the ships in Eve, Star Gate, Star Wars, Star Trek were thrown in who would rein supreme.



Can we add Macross (not robotech) and Starcraft too ? That would be cool.Big smile
Rogue Lawyer
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2013-06-13 11:27:57 UTC
Desuke Aramaki wrote:
Rogue Lawyer wrote:
Hello.

As I was playing the game earlier I had Star Gate on TV in the back ground, it had me thinking being a Sci-Fi fan, which space series has best ships and how would Eveonline Technology compare with the others. I know you can't do an absolute stat comparison but one can try and have a bit of fun as well.

So, if a location in space was selected and a royal rumble was called and all the ships in Eve, Star Gate, Star Wars, Star Trek were thrown in who would rein supreme.



Can we add Macross (not robotech) and Starcraft too ? That would be cool.Big smile


Sure, personally I think Star Gate would probably own everything, Asgard and the Ancient's would one pawnage all.
Niko medes
Freeman Technologies
#11 - 2013-06-13 13:30:54 UTC
Stargate ships would probably stand up against EVE Online ships the best.

With that, the only chance those ships would have would be against fully crewed EVE Online ships.. capsuleer manned vessels would probably react and respond far too quickly for a Stargate ship to counter or defend itself.
Velarra
#12 - 2013-06-13 21:54:02 UTC
Too many of the listed settings feature over the top plot devices, time travel and effectively universe changing magic because a script writer thought 'hey, lets be lazy!'. Heck, even Eve has it if you go looking. The problem of magical plot devices within the various settings you've listed leads to the answer to your question being: The results of such a hypothetical dreamland confrontation depend on who's writing the script / story.
Teinyhr
Ourumur
#13 - 2013-06-14 14:43:04 UTC
Rogue Lawyer wrote:
Hello.

As I was playing the game earlier I had Star Gate on TV in the back ground, it had me thinking being a Sci-Fi fan, which space series has best ships and how would Eveonline Technology compare with the others. I know you can't do an absolute stat comparison but one can try and have a bit of fun as well.

So, if a location in space was selected and a royal rumble was called and all the ships in Eve, Star Gate, Star Wars, Star Trek were thrown in who would rein supreme.



I would consider EVE the weakest if it weren't for the Titans that dwarf almost every ship in the other universes. Off the top of my head, only a Super Star Destroyer is bigger, but considerably fewer in number - and, clearly size isn't everything. Obviously there are tons of variables, like, does the titan superweapon work in this fight as it normally does (taking down smaller capships with one shot)? If so, most other universes would be shaking in their boots - of course depends on are titans as commonplace as they are in-game or canonically relatively few in number?

Basically Star Trek universe, altough I loathe to say so, would probably be squashed like a bug by the other three. The winner would likely be Star Wars simply because it is more fantasy than sci-fi, and having ridiculous amounts of firepower and manpower. I remember reading somewhere (and the information is from Star Wars tech manual) that a single star destroyer turbolaser has the destructive power in excess of gigatons of TNT.
Naomi Hale
#14 - 2013-06-14 15:04:45 UTC
Personally,

Coolest looking - SSV Normandy SR-2 (Mass Effect)

Most Powerful - V'ger (Star Trek - The Motion Picture) followed closely by the Tardis (Doctor Who)

Most Iconic - Either the Millennium Falcon or Star Destroyer (Star Wars)

Ugliest - Serenity (Firefly/Serenity) and Engineers’ Ship (Prometheus)

Most useless - The USS Sulaco (Aliens) and The Event Horizon (Event Horizon)

Honourable mention - Borg Cube (Star Trek) for making geometry intimidating.

I'm Naomi Hale and this is my favourite thread on the forums.

Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2013-06-14 15:21:50 UTC
EVE would win because of manpower and production.

One capsuleer makes the vast majority of crew members obsolete. Capital ships requiring 30,000 crew only need a few thousand with a capsuleer. Also, capsuleers are immortal, so no need to

We also win in production. In most sci-fi settings, a titan sized ship takes years to make. Here it only takes several months.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!

Esna Pitoojee
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#16 - 2013-06-14 17:14:22 UTC
Unfortunately, even with the sheer numbers of vessels a New Eden-based society can churn out, I am inclined to say that the limited offensive power (and correspondingly limited defensive systems) will render those fleets fairly insignificant.

Consider, for instance, that a Clone Wars-era cruiser was equipped with 48 primary weapons each with an effective yield of 200 gigatons/shot (let alone secondary weapons); shield dissipation rates would be expected to receive fire from similar weapons. By the end of the Clone Wars, such vessels were considered outmoded for general fleet combat and had been replaced by significantly more potent vessels. By 0 ABY, even these 2nd-generation vessels were long since retired from general service and replaced by still-more-powerful vessels. A Star Destroyers' anti-starfighter weapons can be effectively measured as having an output of roughly 30TJ per shot; medium-caliber turbolasers may have a staggering output of 6,700TJ, with heavy anti-capital ship weapons scaling even higher.

Compared to this, for reference, a Revelation's capacitor has a stock capacity of around 57TJ - I can't be bothered to calculate yield-per-shot at the moment, but it is likely to be considerably lower than turbolasers' effective yield.
Tarn Ellecon
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2013-06-14 18:12:42 UTC
Cipher Deninard wrote:
I vote Battlestar Galactica ;D


So say we all.

"F*ck the Polis" - Socrates

Eija-Riitta Veitonen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#18 - 2013-06-14 18:16:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Eija-Riitta Veitonen
Naomi Hale wrote:
Personally,

Coolest looking - SSV Normandy SR-2 (Mass Effect)

Most Powerful - V'ger (Star Trek - The Motion Picture) followed closely by the Tardis (Doctor Who)

Most Iconic - Either the Millennium Falcon or Star Destroyer (Star Wars)

Ugliest - Serenity (Firefly/Serenity) and Engineers’ Ship (Prometheus)

Most useless - The USS Sulaco (Aliens) and The Event Horizon (Event Horizon)

Honourable mention - Borg Cube (Star Trek) for making geometry intimidating.


I hereby nominate the Shadow Battlecrab as absolutely best looking ship ever designed! Followed by Narn Regime Bin'tak Dreadnought and ISA White Star class.
Honourable mention: SA-23E Mitchell-Hyundyne Starfury (Aurora class) as probably the most realistic space fighter.

Enter Babylon 5 universe. While in terms of sheer power most of the regular races' ships fall way below ISDs, Vorlons may have something to say about that. The tech overall should be around or slightly above that of the StarGate universe.
Cipher Deninard
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2013-06-16 11:17:11 UTC
Rogue Lawyer wrote:
Interesting, totally forgot about that one, but thinking about it the ships in Battlestar Galatica would probably get owned.


They would, but only because the Battlestar ships tend to be more "realistic" than other sci fi series. No lasers or shields or anything like that. Star Trek or Star Wars ships would probably win based on how both were constructed with infinite resources and neither have the limitations of physics... (I haven't seen all of star gate yet so excuse my lack of knowledge on that subject)
Teinyhr
Ourumur
#20 - 2013-06-16 20:11:50 UTC
Of course, if James T. Kirk or Jean-Luc Picard are alive, every other universe loses automatically.
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