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132 sensor strength Brutix vs. 5 light ECM drones. Results - predictable.

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FDIC Agent
Doomheim
#1 - 2013-06-12 20:06:23 UTC
I decide to use my Proteus alt to scout and provide max sensor strength bonus to help me from being jammed. I'm wandering around low sec and spot a drake. Setup to bonus and jump in my Brutix and go for him. My mid slots is a micro warp drive, scram and two OVERLOADED eccm modules and I have that new Gallente sensor strength skill at max.

132 sensor strength. Smile

Drake launches five light ECM drones. I get one cycle of antimatter off and I'm jammed... for two back to back 20 second cycles. So with no way to apply any meaningful damage, much less hold tackle; I die to the Drake. X

I come back with yet another Brutix two days later, attack a Cyclone. Out come the ECM dines when he starts to bleed armor. I get jammed and he warp away to a pos. X

You know, I don't really mind being jammed by a blackbird or other ECM specialized ship, but these ******* ECM drones need to be removed from the damn game already.
Trii Seo
Goonswarm Federation
#2 - 2013-06-12 20:09:12 UTC
Wow. Rolling a 1/132 badly, I wouldn't buy lottery tickets if I were you...

Proud pilot of the Imperium

Arek'Jaalan: Heliograph
Rellik B00n
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2013-06-12 20:10:15 UTC
have you ever heard the phrase "if you can't beat em, join em"?
[Of a request for change ask: Who Benefits?](https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=199765)
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#4 - 2013-06-12 20:11:01 UTC
Tears, glorious tears.....

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#5 - 2013-06-12 20:13:50 UTC
18% chance, so it's not exactly out of the ordinary…
Destination SkillQueue
Doomheim
#6 - 2013-06-12 20:14:38 UTC
Doesn't brutix have a solid dronebay too? Fit some ECM drones, then go forth and spread the hate.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#7 - 2013-06-12 20:17:42 UTC
FDIC Agent wrote:
I decide to use my Proteus alt to scout and provide max sensor strength bonus to help me from being jammed. I'm wandering around low sec and spot a drake. Setup to bonus and jump in my Brutix and go for him. My mid slots is a micro warp drive, scram and two OVERLOADED eccm modules and I have that new Gallente sensor strength skill at max.

132 sensor strength. Smile

Drake launches five light ECM drones. I get one cycle of antimatter off and I'm jammed... for two back to back 20 second cycles. So with no way to apply any meaningful damage, much less hold tackle; I die to the Drake. X

I come back with yet another Brutix two days later, attack a Cyclone. Out come the ECM dines when he starts to bleed armor. I get jammed and he warp away to a pos. X

You know, I don't really mind being jammed by a blackbird or other ECM specialized ship, but these ******* ECM drones need to be removed from the damn game already.



Then again the other night I put ECM drones on a dramiel 10 or 12 times and didn't get a single jam.

It's almost like random occurences aren't predictable

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
ISD Tyrozan
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#8 - 2013-06-12 20:18:41 UTC
Personal attack post has been deleted.

RULE 4. Personal attacks are prohibited.

ISD Tyrozan

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

@ISDTyrozan | @ISD_CCL
Aldap
State War Academy
Caldari State
#9 - 2013-06-12 20:20:02 UTC
I understand the frustration, I've been there.

Its well known ECM drones should more or less be completely removed from the game, the way they are now. Old and repeating subject in the forums. Generally speaking CCP know but they just couldn't care less... However, CCP_Rise may be able to change that in the future, as he always talked about how overall terrible ECM drones are to Eve as a game entirely, in his streams :-)

Try the sensor strength implants, they help. The lowgrade set only costs like 40mil total, and you'll feel a great difference vs ECM drones (won't do you that much good vs Falcons though).

An interesting article about Solo PvP: http://themittani.com/features/new-eden-solo
Trii Seo
Goonswarm Federation
#10 - 2013-06-12 20:21:25 UTC
OP I want the name of that pilot. I shall knock him out and torture for hours until he shares the secret of drone jamming.

Probability will always be the death of me, I'll just say my drone jammery has been so bad I started to consider combat drones a better pick.

Proud pilot of the Imperium

Arek'Jaalan: Heliograph
Ottersmacker
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#11 - 2013-06-12 20:21:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Ottersmacker
screw dishonour drones srsly, if not outright removed, they should self-destruct after the 1st cycle or something

tho isn't it like 7.5s to clear a flight of light dishonour with your smartbomb m8?

i just locked an open door.. strange, yet symbolically compelling.
FDIC Agent
Doomheim
#12 - 2013-06-12 20:22:07 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Tears, glorious tears.....

Haha. Nice exaggeration. I think frustration is a more accurate description.

My conclusion is to cross train up my alt to fly a Falcon and just jam the target every time. Even if they don't have ECM drones. Like someone said above, I'll just have to hop on the ECM anti-fun wagon.

I tried the the counter module to ECM and it was pointless. The mechanics around ECM need a serious revamp. Until then, I'll be jamming every person I come across in every fight I get into, sorry.
Dave Stark
#13 - 2013-06-12 20:23:57 UTC
oh look, another whine about rng being random.
FDIC Agent
Doomheim
#14 - 2013-06-12 20:25:39 UTC
Aldap wrote:
I understand the frustration, I've been there.

Its well known ECM drones should more or less be completely removed from the game, the way they are now. Old and repeating subject in the forums. Generally speaking CCP know but they just couldn't care less... However, CCP_Rise may be able to change that in the future, as he always talked about how overall terrible ECM drones are to Eve as a game entirely, in his streams :-)

Try the sensor strength implants, they help. The lowgrade set only costs like 40mil total, and you'll feel a great difference vs ECM drones (won't do you that much good vs Falcons though).

How many millions and millions of ISK do I have to invest in implants, modules and a second account ($$$) with anti ECM bonuses to counter a group of drones that cost around 50k ISK??
Mayhaw Morgan
State War Academy
Caldari State
#15 - 2013-06-12 20:26:10 UTC
FDIC Agent wrote:
132 sensor strength. Smile . . .Drake launches five light ECM drones. I'm jammed . . . attack a Cyclone. Out come the ECM dines when he starts to bleed armor. I get jammed . . .


That's probably what you deserve for trying to be "emergent". You might have won if you had fit your ship JUST LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE and played the game JUST LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE. ECM is a problem. Why are you trying to overcome problems when you could be playing the game JUST LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE?
FDIC Agent
Doomheim
#16 - 2013-06-12 20:27:23 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
FDIC Agent wrote:
I decide to use my Proteus alt to scout and provide max sensor strength bonus to help me from being jammed. I'm wandering around low sec and spot a drake. Setup to bonus and jump in my Brutix and go for him. My mid slots is a micro warp drive, scram and two OVERLOADED eccm modules and I have that new Gallente sensor strength skill at max.

132 sensor strength. Smile

Drake launches five light ECM drones. I get one cycle of antimatter off and I'm jammed... for two back to back 20 second cycles. So with no way to apply any meaningful damage, much less hold tackle; I die to the Drake. X

I come back with yet another Brutix two days later, attack a Cyclone. Out come the ECM dines when he starts to bleed armor. I get jammed and he warp away to a pos. X

You know, I don't really mind being jammed by a blackbird or other ECM specialized ship, but these ******* ECM drones need to be removed from the damn game already.



Then again the other night I put ECM drones on a dramiel 10 or 12 times and didn't get a single jam.

It's almost like random occurences aren't predictable

If it is such a great mechanic, this dice roll, how about you ask CCP to make everything follow it as well?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#17 - 2013-06-12 20:28:20 UTC
FDIC Agent wrote:
If it is such a great mechanic
Who said it is?
Rath Kelbore
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#18 - 2013-06-12 20:35:27 UTC
Tippia wrote:
18% chance, so it's not exactly out of the ordinary…


Can we see the math on that?

Chance to jam = 1 - (1 - Jam Strength / Sensor Strength)^Jammers

That's the formula I've always thought was correct.

1-(1-1/132)^5 = approximately .037 or 3.7 percent.

That being said, I can understand the OP's frustration at getting jammed by ecm drones so often.

I plan on living forever.......so far, so good.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#19 - 2013-06-12 20:40:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Rath Kelbore wrote:
Tippia wrote:
18% chance, so it's not exactly out of the ordinary…


Can we see the math on that?

Chance to jam = 1 - (1 - Jam Strength / Sensor Strength)^Jammers

That's the formula I've always thought was correct.

1-(1-1/132)^5 = approximately .037 or 3.7 percent.
Ah, I misread sensor and jamming strength. 5 ≠ 1.
Rath Kelbore
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#20 - 2013-06-12 20:41:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Rath Kelbore
Tippia wrote:
Rath Kelbore wrote:
Tippia wrote:
18% chance, so it's not exactly out of the ordinary…


Can we see the math on that?

Chance to jam = 1 - (1 - Jam Strength / Sensor Strength)^Jammers

That's the formula I've always thought was correct.

1-(1-1/132)^5 = approximately .037 or 3.7 percent.
It's correct, but your result is for one drone, not for all five. You've missed the ^5 part.

5/132 = 0.03788 / 3.8% for a single drone.
1-0.03788 = 0.9621 / 96.2% for the ship to not be locked by one drone
0.9621⁵ = 0.8243 / 82.4% for the ship to not be locked by five of them.
1-0.8243 = 0.1757 / 17.6% for the drones to get a successful jam.


1 light ECM drone has a jam strength of 5?????

Edit: Was typing this as you posted above apparently :)

I plan on living forever.......so far, so good.
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