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What are good armor tanked ships for sleeper sites?
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Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2013-06-12 15:31:18 UTC
Nash MacAllister wrote:
Got ya. Not everyone had perfect Tengu skills on our end so it made for quite a bit of no-dps time for people. Big smile Still quite substandard to our current fleet though.


RR tengu's also suffer from needing the CPU sub which kills your lock range.

And yes when the corp is on we have much better fleets to run. But I like being able to not have to rely on others (I sometimes play odd hours).
Piolp
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#22 - 2013-06-12 15:59:12 UTC
Nash MacAllister wrote:
Mr Kidd wrote:
2 Tengus make you 200mil/hr/pilot.


Personal experience in C4 has shown that if you count the time to make improved BM's, run the sites, and salvage, you are not anywhere near that rate. About 160mil/hr/pilot is the best you can hope for, and that is with dual/triple boxing scouts and salvagers, no improved BM's, and not using Tengu. And that rate is the same for 2 people, or 6-7, depending on how good the fleet comp is. I am not sure if you are, but there is a frequent tendency to only count "in-site" time in the ISK/hr calcs and that is only part of the picture.

Armor is not going to compete with shield in terms of ISK/hr, but if its what you have, go with it. RR Domi with Sentries can make it happen.

I can say for many fleet comps, running C4 sites got much tougher with the Ship Resist nerf.



4 tengus, 3 RR 1 salvage, 2 pilots duelboxing with a 3rd account on entrance and watching dscan like a mofo, make easy 200m an hour... run 3 barracks sites an hour with this set up on a damn near daily basis!
Nash MacAllister
Air
The Initiative.
#23 - 2013-06-12 16:48:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Nash MacAllister
Piolp wrote:
Nash MacAllister wrote:
Mr Kidd wrote:
2 Tengus make you 200mil/hr/pilot.


Personal experience in C4 has shown that if you count the time to make improved BM's, run the sites, and salvage, you are not anywhere near that rate. About 160mil/hr/pilot is the best you can hope for, and that is with dual/triple boxing scouts and salvagers, no improved BM's, and not using Tengu. And that rate is the same for 2 people, or 6-7, depending on how good the fleet comp is. I am not sure if you are, but there is a frequent tendency to only count "in-site" time in the ISK/hr calcs and that is only part of the picture.

Armor is not going to compete with shield in terms of ISK/hr, but if its what you have, go with it. RR Domi with Sentries can make it happen.

I can say for many fleet comps, running C4 sites got much tougher with the Ship Resist nerf.



4 tengus, 3 RR 1 salvage, 2 pilots duelboxing with a 3rd account on entrance and watching dscan like a mofo, make easy 200m an hour... run 3 barracks sites an hour with this set up on a damn near daily basis!


Off topic at this point but unless I see a loot list with exact times and prices, over multiple sessions, I say no way. Especially not in RR Tengu. I/we have been tracking dozens of sessions, with multiple fleet comps, excellent skills, pulling Jita prices on the spot, and ~160/hr is the best seen. That is 20% lower than your claim, which is a big difference. It is usually in the 140's since people aren't always completely focused. The reason for tracking exact details is for tweaking fleet comps to maximize effectiveness and in turn ISK/hr. I have seen time and time again, even in our own corp, people think they are making a certain ISK/hr based on educated guessing but when they actually calculate it out, it isn't the case. Track the moment you hit warp to the first site, to the minute the salvager clears the last site, pull actual prices, and see...

EDIT: Sorry to come across as arguing, it was not my intent. To each their own but I am quite confident in my statements as I have quite a bit of data to back them up. In the end, what you "make" in ISK/hr is not my concern. As long as it keeps you and your guys flying shinies and PVP'ing, it is a win for us all. Big smile

Yes, if you have to ask yourself the question, just assume we are watching you...
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2013-06-12 21:33:13 UTC
Nash MacAllister wrote:


Off topic at this point but unless I see a loot list with exact times and prices, over multiple sessions, I say no way. Especially not in RR Tengu. I/we have been tracking dozens of sessions, with multiple fleet comps, excellent skills, pulling Jita prices on the spot, and ~160/hr is the best seen. That is 20% lower than your claim, which is a big difference. It is usually in the 140's since people aren't always completely focused. The reason for tracking exact details is for tweaking fleet comps to maximize effectiveness and in turn ISK/hr. I have seen time and time again, even in our own corp, people think they are making a certain ISK/hr based on educated guessing but when they actually calculate it out, it isn't the case. Track the moment you hit warp to the first site, to the minute the salvager clears the last site, pull actual prices, and see...

EDIT: Sorry to come across as arguing, it was not my intent. To each their own but I am quite confident in my statements as I have quite a bit of data to back them up. In the end, what you "make" in ISK/hr is not my concern. As long as it keeps you and your guys flying shinies and PVP'ing, it is a win for us all. Big smile



Well, you're probably right if you run sites indiscriminately. But I did qualify my statement with "focus". Obviously, I'm not making 200mil/hr/tengu running Termini. But if a particular type of site averages100mil in loot/salvage and I can run 4 of those in 1hr, then yeah, that's 200mil/hr/tengu. I'm not factoring in prep or salvage times. If you are, that would be the discrepancy.

I don't know what you run or how you run it. All I can suggest to you is know your triggers and know how to manipulate those and know which targets to get out of the way first so you can work on getting into position for when you trigger the next wave.

Don't ban me, bro!
Oska Rus
Free Ice Cream People
#25 - 2013-06-12 22:01:18 UTC
Abaddns with guardian support might work. But for anything smaller than blaping dreads shield tanking is usually better for pve.
Rall Mekin
End-of-Line
#26 - 2013-06-14 22:18:03 UTC
Le'Mon Tichim wrote:
Remote repair laser Legion. I've run with some recently, and they're tough nuts to crack.


I'm a legion pilot (technically), and I borrowed one of the EU TZ guys in our corp and went running with them last Saturday. They work well, but you fly them completely differently than a remote rep tengu fleet (the legions are remote rep, as well).

I didn't read the whole forums, so I'm not sure if a similar RR fit has been posted. I'll read more later and probably post the one their using.
Blodhgarm Dethahal
8 Sins of Man
Stray Dogs.
#27 - 2013-06-24 19:26:15 UTC
Rall Mekin wrote:
Le'Mon Tichim wrote:
Remote repair laser Legion. I've run with some recently, and they're tough nuts to crack.


I'm a legion pilot (technically), and I borrowed one of the EU TZ guys in our corp and went running with them last Saturday. They work well, but you fly them completely differently than a remote rep tengu fleet (the legions are remote rep, as well).

I didn't read the whole forums, so I'm not sure if a similar RR fit has been posted. I'll read more later and probably post the one their using.


You got a fit for that RR Legion? I always found the DPS and Range abysmal compared to the Tengu so I gave up and kept on using my Tengus.

On another note.. RR Sentry Proteus works as well and if you have good drone skills it seems to out perform the RR Tengu that we use. Its basicly a scaled down Domi all in all, perfect for raiding your static C4 without worring about shoving battleship fleets through.
QT McWhiskers
MultiPass Inc.
The 5th Seal
#28 - 2013-06-25 02:26:40 UTC
3 guards (two MAY work but you run the risk of one being neuted and the other being shot) and 4 armor tech 3s should do just fine for sites. I recommend Ham legions as their range is significantly better than prots. Or laser legions if you really want to reach out and touch someone. 1 webbing painting loki is all you need for those sites.

So with 7 people you have enough to clear the sites. We use this for c5s. IDK how well this would work in c4s I can only assume that its better in c4s.
Andrew Indy
Cleaning Crew
#29 - 2013-06-28 04:09:45 UTC
Dato Koppla wrote:

Just a minor nitpick, putting the pimp into your rigs isn't efficient as you can get a similar tank by putting the money into your reps instead for cheaper, it also means theres less sunk cost as it's easy to just unfit your reps and sell them if you want to change the fit/sell the ship.

In fact for the amount of money you have in this you can switch one rep to a Shadow Serpentis Rep, the other to a Centum C-Type Rep, use 2 T1 auxiliary nano pumps, retain similar tank stats (with slightly less capacitor stability) but have an extra rig slot to play with, I'd use a T2 Locus Coordinator bringing your range up to 40km. All for slightly less cost.


Fair Enough, I guess it really comes down to whether you will change your rigs. I have stuck with that same rig config for about a year now so it was a worth while investment. 2X T2 Rigs + T2 Reps is about the same rep amount (20 DPS less) than 2X T1 rigs and 2X Corelum C-Type Reps (cost 30mil more) and both setups use the same cap so they are really about the same.

If you pimp the rigs straight up it gives to the room to upgrade the reps without destroying rigs, when I am in a dodgy WH I fit T2 stuff, when i'm in my home C3 I fit Colerum B or C-types. It just means I can fit for the situation more easily.
Xequecal
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2013-06-29 16:14:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Xequecal
Why are people fitting webs on their PvE Legions? Is there something critical that I'm missing here?

Also don't you need an analyzer and/or a salvager in order to loot anything of real value from the sites?
Icarus Able
Refuse.Resist
#31 - 2013-06-30 20:14:51 UTC
Xequecal wrote:
Why are people fitting webs on their PvE Legions? Is there something critical that I'm missing here?

Also don't you need an analyzer and/or a salvager in order to loot anything of real value from the sites?


Webs to hit the frigs for full damage..Also Yes but you dont fit that on your combat ships you come back later to salvage.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#32 - 2013-07-01 20:44:09 UTC
Typhoons and RR/drone assist Domis are great. Just about anything with gaurdians as noted.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Archdaimon
Merchants of the Golden Goose
#33 - 2013-07-01 22:09:55 UTC
Why didn't you take this up with your corp?

Wormholes have the best accoustics. It's known. - Sing it for me -
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#34 - 2013-07-02 00:14:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Miton
Here is a comprehensive list of armour sub cap ships that are good for certain WH PVE activities in C4s and above:

Navy Geddon
Machariel
Vindicator
Loki
Guardian



For comparison, here is the shield list:

Nightmare
Golem
CNR
Vindicator
Machariel
Loki
Basilisk


You might notice a pattern.

PS: no, tengu does NOT make the shield list and a legion most certainly doesnt make the armour list.

There is no Bob.

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