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CCP! Please clarify the future plans for WiS!

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Mekela
Vinyl Roid
#781 - 2011-11-06 22:25:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Mekela
Malcanis wrote:

I would assume that CCP are still going ahead with the WiS project, but it's very obvious that there's still a lot of fundamental work on the Incarna engine to be done before we can even start to expect to see anything go live on TQ. Until then, it's pointless to ask CCP to assign a huge dev team to a project that's barely out of Alpha. When we see a devblog asking us to log into SiSi to test the multiplayer capability of the Incarna engine, that's the time to start asking about Incarna content. Until then you're wasting your breath.


This is the problem, from listening to Hillmar we have heard they are abandoning WiS. I understand the need to cut back but his exact quote
Quote:

CEO Hilmar Pétursson said "the community has spoken loud and clear", and that developing an expansion experience like Apocrypha is now "very much what we're aiming for".

"We're releasing the racial variants of the Captain's Quarters this year and that's mainly because we had that work completed," Pétursson said. "It also includes some optimisations and other fixes.

"I think the community has spoken loud and clear that they want more classical Eve features to come out, and that's the priority for us.

"Incarna is there, and we might pick it up at some point later down the line, but the voice of the community is quite clear. People want more spaceships, and more flying in space features. That's very much what we are responding to.


We the people think abandoning WiS is what is happening. We don't want a huge team working on it, we want "a team". We want it to grow. And don't give me "It can't work right now" How many MMO's are there that are face to face interaction, and your saying they can't do it on a smaller scale right now?

And for you FiS only people I'll happily contract all my stuff to you right after you give me a billion to cover costs of um stuff. I promise to pay you back 10 times as much
Ranka Mei
TANoshii Incorporated
#782 - 2011-11-06 22:28:18 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Ranka Mei wrote:
Flamespar wrote:

I'll give you the opportunity to sell me the concept with WiS. Tell me why I should even care and why it is even remotely relevant for a game that has just done fine and dandy without it since launch?

Tl;dr: 'Standing still is going backwards.'

Agreed - look what happened to EVE when the part of it that people could actually play was left to stagnate for 2 years.

It wasn't stagnate; they were just expanding the horizon to places you cared not to look. :)

Seriously, all y'all should have given Incarna a chance; it could have propelled EVE forward by leaps and bounds. Instead we'll get several more years of tinkering about with old stuff now first.

-- "All your monies AUR belong to us!" -- CCP
Jita Alt666
#783 - 2011-11-06 22:35:19 UTC
Selene D'Celeste wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
When it was originally presented to us, the WiS project was "sold" to the player-base as an 'as-well-as' feature - something that was pretty much a free bonus from the WoD project, requiring not much more than some art dev resources to reskin it.

The truth was that it swiftly turned into an 'instead-of', with virtually all CCP's resources being diverted into WoD and incarna, leaving almost nothing for Space-EVE. Originally, I was as optimistic and inspired by the prospect of getting out of my pod as anyone, but the way things turned out has left a huge dent in the credibility of the project.

The people who joined EVE for the spaceships are going to continue to be bitterly hostile to any proposals for WiS until it can be satisfactorily demonstrated that it'll be the 'as-well-as" deal we were originally offered. That WiS development will not unduly compromise FiS development. (Not to mention that there will also have to be a clear and coherent plan for the actual WiS gameplay and content - something which to this day we're still lacking.)

I would assume that CCP are still going ahead with the WiS project, but it's very obvious that there's still a lot of fundamental work on the Incarna engine to be done before we can even start to expect to see anything go live on TQ. Until then, it's pointless to ask CCP to assign a huge dev team to a project that's barely out of Alpha. When we see a devblog asking us to log into SiSi to test the multiplayer capability of the Incarna engine, that's the time to start asking about Incarna content. Until then you're wasting your breath.


I wonder how many people actually take the time to read the good posts like this one.


Malcanis has a tendency to make good posts.
Ranka Mei
TANoshii Incorporated
#784 - 2011-11-06 22:37:53 UTC
Mekela wrote:

We the people think abandoning WiS is what is happening.

And for good reason, of course. It's hard to be confident even about something they say they will do; which makes Incarna as good as abandoned.

Quote:
We don't want a huge team working on it, we want "a team". We want it to grow.

Yes; not a single WiS-lover would ever propose to drop working on FiS; but they can't just throw away all this potential either. Especially since I'm convinced they'll come to regret it.

-- "All your monies AUR belong to us!" -- CCP
Travis J Penken
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#785 - 2011-11-06 23:43:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Travis J Penken
Ranka Mei wrote:
Flamespar wrote:

I'll give you the opportunity to sell me the concept with WiS. Tell me why I should even care and why it is even remotely relevant for a game that has just done fine and dandy without it since launch?

Tl;dr: 'Standing still is going backwards.'

Are people still actively playing Freespace? (a game from 1998). Probably not. Why not, you ask? Because the game, by today's standards, is hopelessly obsolete. It was, at the time, amazing, though! You could actually fly around in space along all three axes! It was a breakthrough, in its own right. But nowadays everything about it feels aged... because it is.

Let me quote some from the infamous leaked Hilmar email.

"First of we have Incarna, an amazing technological and artistic achievement. A vision from years ago realized to a point that no one could have imaged but a few months ago."

He was right. As someone who plays 'The Other Sci-Fi' space game series, Mass Effect, I can attest to the Incarna engine being superior, by far, to anything the competition has. So few have been willng to give him credit for it; but it's no less true. With Incarna Hilmar realized an unparalleled masterpiece in virtual reality, clear and simple. The man also said:

"Innovation takes time to set in and the predictable reaction is always to resist change."

That statement stands on its own.

You delude yourselves into thinking CCP has 'seen reason' or something, simply because you won (yes, you won). Rather, what you have done is sabotaged CCP and their solid innovation track for the future. You voted with your feet, and CCP saw no other way than to give in. You probably think that's a good thing. 'Moar power to the people!' and all. But, like Freespace, EVE needs to evolve. And by evolving I don't mean tinkering a bit with skins, or nerfing this, or buffing the other; or adding ships even. That's all just marginal stuff. CCP is diligently working on it, because you made them, essentially; but, in effect, you are halting their carefully planned progress. As the poet said, The greatest enemy of progress is not stagnation, but false progress.

To remain still a viable Sci-Fi space game, a decade from now, EVE needs grow: not just in number of players, but conceptually. Incarna, I believe, was the ticket. It was the opening up of a 3D virtual reality realm with near endless growth-potential. Now that door is closed.

I tell you what will happen. And Hilmar already knows this, of course. You think Bioware (the makers of Mass Effect) are sitting still? Think again. They probably scared themselves sh*tless when they saw the Incarna engine. And they're all working on something similar now, you can bet on it. And the funny part is, they won't even have any catching up to do, as, guess what, CCP themselves just dropped further development on Incarna 'voluntarily.' And, five years from now, they'll have it; or something very close to it. And CCP will have lost the advantage. You did that.

Proud of yourself, little man?



I really dont know where to begin, but my god's are you thickheaded or what's wrong with you?
The players are not here to pay for an experince that MAY occour in 5 years from now. They want to experince EVE now, not in a distant future that may come.

What the players DID do, was to make CCP refocus on the actual gameplay in EVE. What was released pissed players off compleatly. Not because we didnt want WIS, we DID.

What we got was pre-alpha code, that should have stayed in a developer's corner for another year or 2, before the players even saw any of it. What INCARNA did, was to alienate WiS from the players, giving nothing of value to the gameplay and promoting it as "awesome". Now, everything called INCARNA or WiS will be viewed with huge scepsiss, distrust and hate. That is what incarna did.

What can CCP do about it? Hide it in a closet, until it's got a point. Having an avatar for no reson doesnt make up for total neglect of the game for the famous 18 months, and even longer for the engine to work with multiple avatars in the same location. (imagine Jita 4-4 with incarna!)
Nypheas Azurai
Azimuth Enterprises
#786 - 2011-11-06 23:55:36 UTC
Ranka Mei wrote:

Seriously, all y'all should have given Incarna a chance; it could have propelled EVE forward by leaps and bounds. Instead we'll get several more years of tinkering about with old stuff now first.

I just want to note that we should be happy that Incarna was stopped in its tracks, had it been left to progress we'd get NEX and fluff, and not meaningful WiS as we saw it in E3 2008.

Everything else is true: that halting development of a new & better WiS in favor of falsely pretending progress is in fixing bugs that should have been addressed years ago is alarming in that some of the playerbase is actually falling for it. It's as if Himlar had said "we've realized what the EVE community wants, and it's more Flying in Space; therefore as effective tomorrow we've fired all our market and economy staff so they can work on FiS fulltime. No MORE ECONOMY!" and suddenly the people are to cheer this as good!? (only the short-sighted could believe this will result in anything but stagnation)

We the players, both WiS, and FiS, but especially the FiS-ers have to shake off this manipulation attempt by CCP.
We cannot let ourselves be fooled into the false dichotomy that it's "fix the game OR expand its horizons" when it should be "fix the game AND expand its horizons".
Astrid Stjerna
Sebiestor Tribe
#787 - 2011-11-07 01:21:08 UTC
Nypheas Azurai wrote:

We the players, both WiS, and FiS, but especially the FiS-ers have to shake off this manipulation attempt by CCP.
We cannot let ourselves be fooled into the false dichotomy that it's "fix the game OR expand its horizons" when it should be "fix the game AND expand its horizons".


You can't expand your horizons when your rudder's broken.

CCP has to focus its attention somewhere -- and it has to be either development of Incarna-related features (which takes time and manpower away from bug-testing and balancing) or more bug-testing and balancing (which does the same thing for Incarna features). If they do both at once, they're not going to be able to do either properly.

I can't get rid of my darn signature!  Oh, wait....
Nypheas Azurai
Azimuth Enterprises
#788 - 2011-11-07 02:47:37 UTC
Astrid Stjerna wrote:

You can't expand your horizons when your rudder's broken.

Neither can you sit in the middle of nowhere and go "MAYBE at some point later down the line" we'll look into getting the sails back up. That's my point, you're in trouble until both are working: If you fix your rudder and break your sails you're no further ahead than with a broken rudder and working sails.

Right now, they're fixing the rudders, but CCP better have more than just a "maybe some time" attitude towards how they're going to expand EVE into the future.
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#789 - 2011-11-07 02:52:41 UTC
Nypheas Azurai wrote:
Neither can you sit in the middle of nowhere

Fixing, improving, and adding to the actual Eve gameplay that people are paying for isn't sitting in the middle of nowhere.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Henry Haphorn
Killer Yankee
#790 - 2011-11-07 03:08:51 UTC
Nypheas Azurai wrote:
Astrid Stjerna wrote:

You can't expand your horizons when your rudder's broken.

Neither can you sit in the middle of nowhere and go "MAYBE at some point later down the line" we'll look into getting the sails back up. That's my point, you're in trouble until both are working: If you fix your rudder and break your sails you're no further ahead than with a broken rudder and working sails.

Right now, they're fixing the rudders, but CCP better have more than just a "maybe some time" attitude towards how they're going to expand EVE into the future.


Just be glad they're fixing the core issues of the game such as unbalanced hybrids, handicapped destroyers, insurance payouts to suicide gankers, etc, etc, etc. By the way, the majority of the players here made their voices heard on the first day of the Incarna release and they said fix the core issues first. And they said it, not just with guns on a monument, game-news articles and epic threadnaughts, but also with their wallets by unsubbing their accounts.

As a result, CCP apologized and now they're working on the core issues while the WiS fanboys (who didn't make that much noise) were left whining. That's what happens when you have a majority vote. Live with it.

Adapt or Die
Nypheas Azurai
Azimuth Enterprises
#791 - 2011-11-07 03:35:26 UTC
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Nypheas Azurai wrote:
Neither can you sit in the middle of nowhere

Fixing, improving, and adding to the actual Eve gameplay that people are paying for isn't sitting in the middle of nowhere.

Fixing is not expansions, people pay for maintenance and expansion (maintenance/patches are expected).


Henry Haphorn wrote:

As a result, CCP apologized and now they're working on the core issues while the WiS fanboys (who didn't make that much noise) were left whining. That's what happens when you have a majority vote. Live with it.

You must be living under a rock because many WiS-ers along with FiS-ers were amongst the most vocal (case-in-point: I'm among the many who voted by unsubbing, so you can't separate my voice out) and the reasons for voting aren't as simple as you make them. If you thought through it a bit more you'd realize that WiS had the most to lose from Incarna (what's worse, not caring about a feature, or caring about a feature and seeing it implemented poorly?) and so were just as peeved as anyone else.

But attitudes like that - "just be glad" - are giving CCP the easy way out: that they can simply choose FiS over everything else and fool the FiS-ers into thinking that fixing a weapons system that's been broken for 5 years or other neglected game mechanics constitutes an expansion or overall progress of the game.

Keep making it easy for them, at least if CCP thinks that all they need to do is break then fix gameplay every year and not expand, then it makes it easier for competitors to slip in and improve. And competition is the best thing that could happen right now.
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#792 - 2011-11-07 03:39:48 UTC
Nypheas Azurai wrote:
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Nypheas Azurai wrote:
Neither can you sit in the middle of nowhere

Fixing, improving, and adding to the actual Eve gameplay that people are paying for isn't sitting in the middle of nowhere.

Fixing is not expansions, people pay for maintenance and expansion (maintenance/patches are expected).

Huh?

I think your point was that Eve was somehow stagnating because they were refocusing on actual Eve gameplay and not Barbies in space and I countered by saying that by fixing bugs, improving existing parts of the game and then adding to the core gameplay that Eve players are paying a monthly subscription for is proof that the game isn't stagnant.

Your response doesn't make any sense.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Azahni Vah'nos
Vah'nos Family
#793 - 2011-11-07 04:17:32 UTC
Nypheas Azurai wrote:
Ranka Mei wrote:

Seriously, all y'all should have given Incarna a chance; it could have propelled EVE forward by leaps and bounds. Instead we'll get several more years of tinkering about with old stuff now first.

I just want to note that we should be happy that Incarna was stopped in its tracks, had it been left to progress we'd get NEX and fluff, and not meaningful WiS as we saw it in E3 2008.

Everything else is true: that halting development of a new & better WiS in favor of falsely pretending progress is in fixing bugs that should have been addressed years ago is alarming in that some of the playerbase is actually falling for it. It's as if Himlar had said "we've realized what the EVE community wants, and it's more Flying in Space; therefore as effective tomorrow we've fired all our market and economy staff so they can work on FiS fulltime. No MORE ECONOMY!" and suddenly the people are to cheer this as good!? (only the short-sighted could believe this will result in anything but stagnation)

We the players, both WiS, and FiS, but especially the FiS-ers have to shake off this manipulation attempt by CCP.
We cannot let ourselves be fooled into the false dichotomy that it's "fix the game OR expand its horizons" when it should be "fix the game AND expand its horizons".

Personally I think that Incarna with it's no content microtransaction shopfront NEX Store just showed how disconnected CCP had become from the playerbase. People like CCP Zinfandel, CCP Apollo and anyone else involved in the NEX Store have a lot to answer for. It also shows how little they care for the integrity of the game.

I'm sure if the playerbase was made up of mostly young teens then there wouldn't have been the backlash CCP recieved from the whole NEX/WiS/Gold ammo debacle, but telling the EVE players it's raining whilst your pissing on them just doesn't fly when dealing with people who are wise enough to know better. CCP clearly never heard the business acronym 'Don't boil the frog' and the people that thought the NEX Store was a good idea have shown that they don't care one bit for the future of EVE.

All those players that for years have remained loyal to CCP and looked forward to the addition and expansion of the games content with WiS were given the shaft with the inclusion of the NEX Store. Yes thanks for being so loyal, but if you want to partake in the sandbox devoid content of WiS we've delivered so far that will $30-$80 on top of your subscription and/or PLEX and oh by the way we removed any sandbox elements that we told you before would be included just to give you that meaningless crap. How about CCP shows that they at least care just a little about those long term players as well as the newer ones and delivers the NEX Store items in a way that adds value/content to the sandbox that is EVE.

Not to mention that the NEX Store adds absolutely zero reason for new players to want to join EVE. So what was the intent of the NEX Store, an attempt to milk those loyal golden geese? you know the ones that helped CCP to get where they are. Future proofing the game? well if your gullible enough to swallow that line then you better go and get a job at the local brothel.

WiS could have been so much more than what it became or where CCP were headed with it. Regardless of peoples feelings towards WiS whether they be good or bad, with some meaningful sandbox gameply it had the potential to attract more players which would have meant a spillover of people into FiS content, thereby benefiting everyone. Unfortunately CCP kneecapped WiS with their shortsightedness with things like the NEX Store and thought that $80 monocles and the like was content for a sandbox game.

CCP made the mistake of making people choose between FiS and WiS by virtually abandoning FiS for the last 2 years and also allowing glaring bugs to remain. The release of Incarna with the problems surrounding it was the last straw for many and also included very little unless you call the NEX Store content. I'm sure that if work on new content/fixes for FiS had continued whilst they worked on WiS then there wouldn't be the resentment towards WiS that we see now.

Nex (Cash Shop) / Aurum - removing sand from the sandbox since Incarna. Currently the only use for aurum is to buy virtual items in the in-game store, but Cockerill expects to expand its uses in the future.

Nypheas Azurai
Azimuth Enterprises
#794 - 2011-11-07 04:19:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Nypheas Azurai
Ladie Harlot wrote:
I think your point was that Eve was somehow stagnating because they were refocusing on actual Eve gameplay and not Barbies in space and I countered by saying that by fixing bugs, improving existing parts of the game and then adding to the core gameplay that Eve players are paying a monthly subscription for is proof that the game isn't stagnant.

Your response doesn't make any sense.

stag·nant
- characterized by lack of development, advancement, or progressive movement: a stagnant economy.

Knowing the definition of words helps to make sense of them. Take note particularly of "advancement" and "progressive". You can be working vigorously on a project but so long as that work is simply in-place and doesn't move it forward, it's still stagnant. Fixing, patching, improvements help stop EVE from breaking, but expanding, that's venturing into something new. FiS isn't new and none of the proposed changes for Winter imply they're adding any new element to FiS. Guess what's a perfect new element that they've been talking about adding since 2006? WiS. And now they're already resigned on not making it happen "maybe, for some time later".

Stagnant


Azahni Vah'nos wrote:
WiS could have been so much more than what it became or where CCP were headed with it.
CCP made the mistake of making people choose between FiS and WiS by virtually abandoning FiS for the last 2 years and also allowing glaring bugs to remain. The release of Incarna with the problems surrounding it was the last straw for many and also included very little unless you call the NEX Store content. I'm sure that if work on new content/fixes for FiS had continued whilst they worked on WiS then there wouldn't be the resentment towards WiS that we see now.
^^
This person gets it.
CCP are clever, they pit us against each other (FiS vs WiS) and say "choose!", when they know very well it should have been both. There are no winners here as long as people keep allowing themselves to believe that
a) Incarna was WiS (it wasn't, neither party wanted Incarna)
b) one of either FiS or WiS can exist (both can be developed in tandem if CCP isn't preoccupied with WoD and vanities, it's why we pay a sub fee: for game maintenance AND new features that expand the universe)
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#795 - 2011-11-07 05:16:34 UTC
So again, this thread should have at least gotten a CCP "we hear you and we are looking at it", but no.

I want to respond to a couple of running comments in the recent replies.

WiS and NeX are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS!!!! WiS does not need NeX!!! Stop claiming WiS means NeX!

CCP did not focus all of CCP in WiS instead of FiS!! They focused all of CCP on consoles and vampires!!! So stop claiming WiS is why FiS work didn't happen.

Finally ask yourself, if you think the winter expansion is awesome, this is what CCP has done in less than 90 days of reasonable resources on Eve, why the heck have we been told over and over that what we wanted in general from Eve was impossible when we have been asking for most of the winter expansion for years. Clearly they had every warm bodied sentient being working on non-Eve content. There hasn't been anyone working on Eve content of any kind (and that includes WiS) for some time.

We are getting the "vampires ate my homework" excuse because if there was the amount of work they claimed they were doing for WiS in Eve and not vampires they would open the door even it wasn't as cool as promised. If history proves anything CCP is not shy about releasing unfinished content.

There never was any more WiS completed than the stations. We caught CCP in a lie. There are no vast station interiors ready to walk around in that would have been completed if they were anywhere near on track for the Incarna delivery they promised this winter. Our subscriptions went to vampires and consoles, not WiS as stated.

CCP bet the farm that Vampire games would be bigger than Eve and tried to get WoD out before the Eve community wised up. They tricked us with the promise of a "new shiny" of Incarna but couldn't deliver a vampire game either. Now once they finally have to work on Eve we see how much they could be delivering if they weren't funneling our subscriptions into non-eve efforts.

So WiS haters, you are misguided, CCP nearly killed Eve for the stuff out of Eve, not WiS which they clearly never worked on much.

Issler
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#796 - 2011-11-07 05:43:28 UTC
Issler Dainze wrote:
So again, this thread should have at least gotten a CCP "we hear you and we are looking at it", but no.

That's because it's clear that this thread is 5% you and other people who really want Space Barbie and 95% people trolling you for it.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#797 - 2011-11-07 05:48:06 UTC
Nypheas Azurai wrote:
Knowing the definition of words helps to make sense of them. Take note particularly of "advancement" and "progressive". You can be working vigorously on a project but so long as that work is simply in-place and doesn't move it forward, it's still stagnant. Fixing, patching, improvements help stop EVE from breaking, but expanding, that's venturing into something new. FiS isn't new and none of the proposed changes for Winter imply they're adding any new element to FiS. Guess what's a perfect new element that they've been talking about adding since 2006? WiS. And now they're already resigned on not making it happen "maybe, for some time later".

This boils down to all the other arguments: "If Eve doesn't expand the direction *I* want then it is stagnating". You are told about all the ways the game is growing and expanding but because you're not getting more outfits for your Dolly Dressup you try to dismiss them completely.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Azahni Vah'nos
Vah'nos Family
#798 - 2011-11-07 07:06:18 UTC
Issler Dainze wrote:
So again, this thread should have at least gotten a CCP "we hear you and we are looking at it", but no.

I want to respond to a couple of running comments in the recent replies.

WiS and NeX are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS!!!! WiS does not need NeX!!! Stop claiming WiS means NeX!

CCP did not focus all of CCP in WiS instead of FiS!! They focused all of CCP on consoles and vampires!!! So stop claiming WiS is why FiS work didn't happen.

Finally ask yourself, if you think the winter expansion is awesome, this is what CCP has done in less than 90 days of reasonable resources on Eve, why the heck have we been told over and over that what we wanted in general from Eve was impossible when we have been asking for most of the winter expansion for years. Clearly they had every warm bodied sentient being working on non-Eve content. There hasn't been anyone working on Eve content of any kind (and that includes WiS) for some time.

We are getting the "vampires ate my homework" excuse because if there was the amount of work they claimed they were doing for WiS in Eve and not vampires they would open the door even it wasn't as cool as promised. If history proves anything CCP is not shy about releasing unfinished content.

There never was any more WiS completed than the stations. We caught CCP in a lie. There are no vast station interiors ready to walk around in that would have been completed if they were anywhere near on track for the Incarna delivery they promised this winter. Our subscriptions went to vampires and consoles, not WiS as stated.

CCP bet the farm that Vampire games would be bigger than Eve and tried to get WoD out before the Eve community wised up. They tricked us with the promise of a "new shiny" of Incarna but couldn't deliver a vampire game either. Now once they finally have to work on Eve we see how much they could be delivering if they weren't funneling our subscriptions into non-eve efforts.

So WiS haters, you are misguided, CCP nearly killed Eve for the stuff out of Eve, not WiS which they clearly never worked on much.

Issler

Unless your spaceship is going to have legs and be walking around in stations then the NEX Store is part of WiS. CCP have tied the two together and no matter how much you 'shout' about it not being the case, the fact remains that they are. And right now we can only speculate as to how deeply Aurum would have been interwoven into WiS, but seeing comments from the very people driving the NEX Store/Aurum it isn't hard to imagine where it was headed.

Please tell me where the NEX Store doesn't have it's taint on WiS. The very avatar that you will use to walk around that environment is tied to the NEX for a start.

So CCP has already taken something from Ambulation and instead of being player crafted it's in the NEX Store, but your argument is that it now has nothing to do with WiS ... umm ok. With the release of Incarna CCP said they were going to issue everyone with basically an orange jumpsuit if they got podded and the only way to get other clothing items was through the NEX Store. They didn't go through with it due to player backlash at the time, but gives you an idea of their thinking on how they would try to force people into using the NEX Store if they could.


I believe with WoD/WiS they simply have not been able to get it to work with multiple players in the same space yet. Notice how there has not even been a screenshot of WoD let alone a video and then realise how much we saw of Ambulation even in it's unfinished state. If it was working as intended within Carbon, then CCP would be making noise about it and showing it off.

Or perhaps WiS was going to be so NEX'orized that CCP decided not to further enrage the playerbase and are rethinking how it should be done. Theories are fun aren't they.

Nex (Cash Shop) / Aurum - removing sand from the sandbox since Incarna. Currently the only use for aurum is to buy virtual items in the in-game store, but Cockerill expects to expand its uses in the future.

Viejo Melholm
NecroRise Squadron
Galaxy Spiritus
#799 - 2011-11-07 07:29:42 UTC
Don't need WiS. CCP can get back to it after CCP fix all broken gameplay in space.
Nypheas Azurai
Azimuth Enterprises
#800 - 2011-11-07 07:40:47 UTC
Ladie Harlot wrote:
This boils down to all the other arguments: "If Eve doesn't expand the direction *I* want then it is stagnating". You are told about all the ways the game is growing and expanding but because you're not getting more outfits for your Dolly Dressup you try to dismiss them completely.

The more you try to debase the problem with strawmen names, the more ridiculous your argument appears. Simply calling something "pew pew" or "space barbie" doesn't make it any more legitimate to any rational person.

As the person before you stated, it's not about what "I" want in specific, it's about what constitutes an "expansion". Yes personally I want this to be WiS, but honestly if it was any other expansion, say DUST integrated with EVE, or an arena for PVP, or anything that is actually expansive and not just patches, I'd go with it (although clearly WiS was the logical choice given they've been talking about it for years).

And I think it's worth reiterating what another poster said: don't be so misguided as to think EVE suffered from WiS development when it suffered from a lack of development in general. Are we told the game is "growing and expanding"? by whom, CCP? I don't recall them using the word "expanding", but they must love you if they can get you to believe 5-year-old patches are expansions. Patches they pieced together in the aftermath of rage in less than a few months, while the year of paid subs was diverted to non-EVE work. You want to see what we, the players, mean and expect by expansion? Let's find out the kind of work they can do when dedicating an entire year to EVE (hint: Red moon rising, Apocrypha, even to an extent Dominion had it been followed through properly and not divvied up between DUST and a clickfest).