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High Sec CTA. [UPDATED!]

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Mario Putzo
#101 - 2013-06-12 07:57:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Mario Putzo
Diomedes Calypso wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
Just a short list of small stones creating waves.

It's a terrible analogy.


I don't love it but I get the concept. I'm not locked to the words themselves.

I would guess what is really missing is some double meanings in the original language.

A more accurate analogy for those that need something more than < innoculously small but persistant> can lead to something < big and deadly> But I don't think "wave" necessarily meant "big and deadly" so much to the author. And a "wave " means many things and in poetry it is very often just not one meaning but a flavor of all meanings of the word (sin wave, tidal wave, wave at a football stadium, wave of a hand.... yes water was mentioned but the feeling of the other meanings isn't null unless your a hopelessly linear minded person that takes things literally)

.. but on the "deadly and big thing" I could instead stay something like could be

a small rock kicked from a trail can create a landslide....


BUT that is an entirely more constrained concept.


what is important is the CONCEPT of a what a Ripple is and the concept of what a Wave is, and their juxtaposition.

Even if the pebble induced ripple would never turn into a wave the real point I believe it is saying :
" a ripple is a fractal version of a wave"

Fractals are a quite interesting concept and one we had less words for empirically not long ago but for which poetry and verse and idiom had explored earlier.

A ripple itself is a very interesting thing .. something so small creating such a large pattern on a small pond. Yes it doesn't create a wave.. ...well it creates a tiny little lapping wave far from where it hit.... and PERHAPs that meaning is more apparent in the writer's other language.

You don't need to know the original language to let your mind contemplate the concepts together. Certainly the butterfly effect, or a small ripple of energy in a crowd flares outward into a riot (if you've ever experienced one you know it's force .... luckily my experience was more limited to taking down a field goal after a football game)

You spelling police are probably the same ones that get hung up on the preciseness of an analogy without trying to get the visceral relation.

Ripples and waves have all sorts of relations.. it is a fine analogy as long as you don't have this weird concept that words mean one and only one thing.



Actually its a quote from the video game final fantasy tactics, referencing a small idea that would become a revolution.

But it is applicable in a metaphoric sense. For example. American Democracy. French Democracy. Fascist Germany. Communist Russia.

the stone is a thought.
the ripple is the spread of the thought.
the wave is the thought coming to fruition.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#102 - 2013-06-12 08:11:56 UTC
So why not just say, "Sometimes, with enough determination, small ideas can result in huge changes"?
It makes a lot more sense and actually means what it says. Anyway, that's beside the point... Why are you posing as a high sec carebear to recruit miners to fight for TEST?

Oh god.
Mario Putzo
#103 - 2013-06-12 08:28:50 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
So why not just say, "Sometimes, with enough determination, small ideas can result in huge changes"?
It makes a lot more sense and actually means what it says. Anyway, that's beside the point... Why are you posing as a high sec carebear to recruit miners to fight for TEST?



What are you going to do about it. How do you know I am not a high sec character posing as a TEST member in disguise in order to cause a rift between your alliance and TEST resulting in the HBC pushing on Tribe. Thus opening the second front that GSF will so definitely need. Then again perhaps you remember Goons farming you and decide perhaps you now want to take your revenge. Perhaps you fear if Goons are quickly dispatched the eyes of N3 will quickly turn to you.

Or maybe I am in TEST and this is just an attempt to bring more numbers to fights we apparently already outnumber.


Or perhaps I am just a high sec guy who hauls ****, and reads the news from 0.0 because it interests him, and decided to fit a cheap ship pretty much anyone can fly, and set off and shoot some stuff.

Of course you need to provide a narrative to attract attention. When DickFleet does fly there will be a decent number of people, certainly not a number that means anything I would imagine, but enough that the people who come can have some fun, shoot some ****, see some giant fights, and likely live to tell about it....and if not, at no cost.

So yes it could be a conspiracy or it could be a guy saying lets take some cheap **** out, and shoot stuff for a day.

But then again....I could be a Goon just trying to set up some easy kills at a lowsec gate camp. Anything is possible.
OldWolf69
EVE-RO
Goonswarm Federation
#104 - 2013-06-12 08:29:21 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
So why not just say, "Sometimes, with enough determination, small ideas can result in huge changes"?
It makes a lot more sense and actually means what it says. Anyway, that's beside the point... Why are you posing as a high sec carebear to recruit miners to fight for TEST?

Because he can't quote that from Google or Wikipedia?
Mario Putzo
#105 - 2013-06-12 08:34:50 UTC
OldWolf69 wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:
So why not just say, "Sometimes, with enough determination, small ideas can result in huge changes"?
It makes a lot more sense and actually means what it says. Anyway, that's beside the point... Why are you posing as a high sec carebear to recruit miners to fight for TEST?

Because he can't quote that from Google or Wikipedia?



I actually had to dig deep for that one. I had to go to some post from 2007 to find it. Granted I knew what I was looking for just not who said it. Thats the whole point though. When you quote someone, or paraphrase them you have to provide them respect. So I google quotes, not because I need to, but because I respect the idea conveyed by the person (or personified character in this case).

Example.(paraphrased of course)

~SBUing Venal is a Good Idea.~
Space Monkeys Alliance ~2013
Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
#106 - 2013-06-12 08:40:50 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:


Actually its a quote from the video game final fantasy tactics, referencing a small idea that would become a revolution.

But it is applicable in a metaphoric sense. For example. American Democracy. French Democracy. Fascist Germany. Communist Russia.

the stone is a thought.
the ripple is the spread of the thought.
the wave is the thought coming to fruition.


Yep I buy that 100% ... of course it doesn't -only -mean that

Here's a broadly painted approach

Pebble - singular action at a place and time .. small , not overtly dangerous but struct cleanly
Ripple - Spreading in a radiating and echoing way (as opposed to a soaking or leaching, or flowing like a river directionally)
Wave - much larger impact a distance from the initial point and time

or something like that. "The spark the lit the fire" has very similar connotations yet the spark is less innocent and clearly the start of a volatile reaction where the pebble and the ripple .. and a wave imply more of push that can't be stopped rather than a consuming ridding force that can't be stopped. Subtle but significant.


So. to the Goons ? .. or to anywhere in EVE where an amorphous force with common motivations looks for a way to protect versus a large , cohesive and organized force ?


Actually that is a great concept that I'll contemplate a bit.

A strategy must work in a "nano" form, where independently individuals can create a wave without any real organization. ''
the three legs of the stool.. broad afk cloaking presence ...., boring , un fun and slightly irritating thoughts plastered in local and on cans "Buy windows 8 " lol that would get me . SBU's readily available for sale and some sort of standard operating procedure allowing a bit more anonymous funding via a Mercenary Model . would help... and a wave of a few dozen trillionaires willing to independently blow 10 billion over a month or two paying for an SBU to be put up ( or stolen when trying) daily.

.
Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
#107 - 2013-06-12 08:55:47 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
So why not just say, "Sometimes, with enough determination, small ideas can result in huge changes"?
It makes a lot more sense and actually means what it says. Anyway, that's beside the point... Why are you posing as a high sec carebear to recruit miners to fight for TEST?


Becaause .. your way is too literal and doesn't say everything.

For one. "Determination" isn't really what is suggested. It is the idea of a ripple.. the spread of a force in a pattern of nature, not a bunch of people with a check list. And it's not the "result" either.... the "result" would anticipate a clear end ... the wave.. while singlular in some senses of the word has more of a taste of a Vector force .... without such a precise "end"


And.

I like the goons. I think all the hijinx they've done ruffling hairs in high sec is great!

I like Test too.. well I think.. I've been out of the game a couple years....I fleeted a bunch with goons as an ally of theirs and due to my almost oceanic play times it was easier (and they had better warp ins that didn't have the fleet getting killed compared to if i was in my actuall alliance fleet).

I'm not really sure what Test is like.. they were a bit too young on average for me with humor not quite as distilled bellow the rough edges in the goon way. What I do like about them is that they said... "heck this game is about shooting people.. let's be red to each other now so we have more to shoot" to the goons before i left 2 years ago.

But.. certainly want other parties to attack the goons and attack TEST and the goons to attack the russians and the south to attack the north etc!

Any war is a good one in a WAR GAME ! (duh ! lol ) . I'm just brainstorming tactics an unconventional force could use to distract their enemy.

Distraction is all that can really be hoped for... but it could be a larger enough distraction and irritation that it could change habits a bit or at least get a bit of revenge to the degree that is sweet (and it might even introduce some people who thought they were care bears into war logistics and stategy in the game in a more pvp than pve type way!)

.
Mario Putzo
#108 - 2013-06-12 09:13:29 UTC
Diomedes Calypso wrote:



So. to the Goons ? .. or to anywhere in EVE where an amorphous force with common motivations looks for a way to protect versus a large , cohesive and organized force ?


Actually that is a great concept that I'll contemplate a bit.

A strategy must work in a "nano" form, where independently individuals can create a wave without any real organization. ''
the three legs of the stool.. broad afk cloaking presence ...., boring , un fun and slightly irritating thoughts plastered in local and on cans "Buy windows 8 " lol that would get me . SBU's readily available for sale and some sort of standard operating procedure allowing a bit more anonymous funding via a Mercenary Model . would help... and a wave of a few dozen trillionaires willing to independently blow 10 billion over a month or two paying for an SBU to be put up ( or stolen when trying) daily.


I think you are reading to much into the narrative. This is not an invasion. This is a flotilla of Ventures shooting Goons while they are in a position of vulnerability. Much like they take advantage of us Empire folk routinely. The Initiative is designed to get people into some cheap stuff and go partake in the biggest war EVE has seen. Low investment fun, that can actually have an impact in the out come of engagements.

If **** Fleet pins all the Logi down, and TEST or whatever blaps them, then GSF and friends subcap fleet becomes vulnerable, and once it is depleted the Capital (and Super Capital) fleets become vulnerable as well. This from a ridiculously low SP/Cost ship and fit.

Ideally people get to have fun and experience a large battle which is the ultimate underlying context of the narrative. Its not about honor, it not about money, its not about politics, those are just words. Its about going out to where the rest of EVE is, and having a good time with the community.

And whoring on killmails, without killing sec.
Mario Putzo
#109 - 2013-06-12 09:18:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Mario Putzo
Diomedes Calypso wrote:

Any war is a good one in a WAR GAME ! (duh ! lol ) . I'm just brainstorming tactics an unconventional force could use to distract their enemy.

Distraction is all that can really be hoped for... but it could be a larger enough distraction and irritation that it could change habits a bit or at least get a bit of revenge to the degree that is sweet (and it might even introduce some people who thought they were care bears into war logistics and stategy in the game in a more pvp than pve type way!)



Fit a pile of noob ships with cynos, warp one to each planet/belt/station and light cynos. It will cause the FC's of both alliances to WTF for a minute, potentially turning the tide of the battle.

Also potentially allows for 1v1s at planets as both fleets will send ships to investigate whose cyno it is.



Do this enough times, people become complacent. Then one day you decide to actually do something and drop a 500 man SlowCat fleet into system. (because all Carebears have carriers.)
Dave stark
#110 - 2013-06-12 09:21:32 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:
Diomedes Calypso wrote:

Any war is a good one in a WAR GAME ! (duh ! lol ) . I'm just brainstorming tactics an unconventional force could use to distract their enemy.

Distraction is all that can really be hoped for... but it could be a larger enough distraction and irritation that it could change habits a bit or at least get a bit of revenge to the degree that is sweet (and it might even introduce some people who thought they were care bears into war logistics and stategy in the game in a more pvp than pve type way!)



Fit a pile of noob ships with cynos, warp one to each planet/belt/station and light cynos. It will cause the FC's of both alliances to WTF for a minute, potentially turning the tide of the battle.

Also potentially allows for 1v1s at planets as both fleets will send ships to investigate whose cyno it is.


do you also sleep in a bed of candyfloss and play tag with the unicorns?
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#111 - 2013-06-12 09:48:14 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:
How do you know I am not a high sec character posing as a TEST member in disguise in order to cause a rift between your alliance and TEST resulting in the HBC pushing on Tribe.


There's already a rift between my alliance and TEST and the HBC doesn't exist. Some general you're going to make.

Oh god.
Sajuk'ar
Papil Babla LLC
#112 - 2013-06-12 10:44:30 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:
Sajuk'ar wrote:
MORE! Give us more fresh VICTIMS!!!

MAIM! KILL!! BURN!!!


~It is part of a good man to do great and noble deeds, though he risk everything.~
Plutarch


~Let the Galaxy burn!~
Horus
Giovanni Ursula
Low Tax Hedge Funds
#113 - 2013-06-12 13:20:29 UTC
"In order to to provide maximum customer satisfaction, each employee must be devoted to Quality and Innovation. The Caldari Provisions leadership model is essential for creating a new market paradigm."

~Caldari Provisions Employee Handbook~
Mario Putzo
#114 - 2013-06-12 17:02:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Mario Putzo
Friends I bring you more important news. Today I will describe our plan of Action.

We will be forming up in New Caldari, at a currently unspecified time period, and heading out to do glorious battle in the volatile region of Fountain. For this we would like to see as many pilots in DickVentures as possible (see first post for the fit). Keeping it cheap, and low SP means more of you can partake in this great event.

Our goal on the battlefield for this particular excursion is simple. Our target is the GSF Subcap logistics fleet. Our primary initiative is to keep these ships from being able to warp. This forces GSF to keep its subcapitals on field to defend their logistics, or risk losing them uncontested as they warp in and out from pings.

The main purpose for this is to reduce the survival capability of the GSF subcap fleet, providing our commonly aligned "friends" the opportunity to take an advantage in safer deployment of Capitals or other escalations should they choose. Assuming logistics become eliminated we will go to work on pinning down other things such as eliminating the GSF own tackle, or holding their fleets for bombing runs by the other entities in the region.

Cheap Ships, Cheap Fits, Cheap Deaths.

For honor, for Empire.

(if you are interested please have a Venture prepared to go in New Caldari, time and date will be announced at a later time.)
Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations
#115 - 2013-06-12 17:11:15 UTC
I was going to head there myself, but I can join you and bring some friends.

See Bio for isk doubling rules. If you didn't read bio, chances are you funded those who did.
Giovanni Ursula
Low Tax Hedge Funds
#116 - 2013-06-12 20:40:58 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:
Friends I bring you more important news. Today I will describe our plan of Action.

We will be forming up in New Caldari, at a currently unspecified time period, and heading out to do glorious battle in the volatile region of Fountain. For this we would like to see as many pilots in DickVentures as possible (see first post for the fit). Keeping it cheap, and low SP means more of you can partake in this great event.

Our goal on the battlefield for this particular excursion is simple. Our target is the GSF Subcap logistics fleet. Our primary initiative is to keep these ships from being able to warp. This forces GSF to keep its subcapitals on field to defend their logistics, or risk losing them uncontested as they warp in and out from pings.

The main purpose for this is to reduce the survival capability of the GSF subcap fleet, providing our commonly aligned "friends" the opportunity to take an advantage in safer deployment of Capitals or other escalations should they choose. Assuming logistics become eliminated we will go to work on pinning down other things such as eliminating the GSF own tackle, or holding their fleets for bombing runs by the other entities in the region.

Cheap Ships, Cheap Fits, Cheap Deaths.

For honor, for Empire.

(if you are interested please have a Venture prepared to go in New Caldari, time and date will be announced at a later time.)


I am glad to see a fellow brother from the Caldari Provisions security directorate. Some fellow security officers and I (and some pilot from Aliastra and another random capsuleer, had a secret mission to invade the goons already. We had three retrievers, a badger, an Ibis and I think an Imicus. It was tough to tell. However it's all harder than it sounds. There were these bubbly things that didn't let us warp. lol i don't know what they are, but it's annoying.

Also someone attacked us and destroyed a badger and I think one of the retrievers. I got away though lol. But CONCORD did nothing. NOTHING! I cant believe it. the mission was a succes though. We shot up a goon station. lol those things have a lot of hitpoints. Some other goons called the black legion attacked us and we all died, but shooting the station was worth it.

Anyway, I'll be there in my retriever tomorrow. it has more drones than a venture. it also has a larger ore bay. Maybe we can shoot the station again. I think they cost more than ships.
Mario Putzo
#117 - 2013-06-12 23:28:00 UTC
Giovanni Ursula wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
Friends I bring you more important news. Today I will describe our plan of Action.

We will be forming up in New Caldari, at a currently unspecified time period, and heading out to do glorious battle in the volatile region of Fountain. For this we would like to see as many pilots in DickVentures as possible (see first post for the fit). Keeping it cheap, and low SP means more of you can partake in this great event.

Our goal on the battlefield for this particular excursion is simple. Our target is the GSF Subcap logistics fleet. Our primary initiative is to keep these ships from being able to warp. This forces GSF to keep its subcapitals on field to defend their logistics, or risk losing them uncontested as they warp in and out from pings.

The main purpose for this is to reduce the survival capability of the GSF subcap fleet, providing our commonly aligned "friends" the opportunity to take an advantage in safer deployment of Capitals or other escalations should they choose. Assuming logistics become eliminated we will go to work on pinning down other things such as eliminating the GSF own tackle, or holding their fleets for bombing runs by the other entities in the region.

Cheap Ships, Cheap Fits, Cheap Deaths.

For honor, for Empire.

(if you are interested please have a Venture prepared to go in New Caldari, time and date will be announced at a later time.)


I am glad to see a fellow brother from the Caldari Provisions security directorate. Some fellow security officers and I (and some pilot from Aliastra and another random capsuleer, had a secret mission to invade the goons already. We had three retrievers, a badger, an Ibis and I think an Imicus. It was tough to tell. However it's all harder than it sounds. There were these bubbly things that didn't let us warp. lol i don't know what they are, but it's annoying.

Also someone attacked us and destroyed a badger and I think one of the retrievers. I got away though lol. But CONCORD did nothing. NOTHING! I cant believe it. the mission was a succes though. We shot up a goon station. lol those things have a lot of hitpoints. Some other goons called the black legion attacked us and we all died, but shooting the station was worth it.

Anyway, I'll be there in my retriever tomorrow. it has more drones than a venture. it also has a larger ore bay. Maybe we can shoot the station again. I think they cost more than ships.


o7 Corp brother!

I am glad to see you and your friends have found some enjoyment in the PVP content, even if your ultimate goal was not realized.

The bubbly things you speak of are warp diruption bubbles, they will lock you down regardless of the strength of the warp drive on your ship. (which includes these lovely DickVentures) and they are the typical way of immobilizing enemy ships in 0.0 conflict, specifically large fleet engagements.

But I have great news, Warp Bubbles are stationary (for the most part Heavy Interdictors have some mobility). This is why I have called for a fleet of Ventures. Unlike your choice of heavy slow ships, the smaller faster Venture will allow one to escape the warp bubble, and warp. Due to the +2 Warp Stability native to all Ventures this means if we can keep out of bubbles we can more or less warp in and out as we please.

While I see your point about more drones, and bringing potentially more tank and dps, the fact that a large less mobile composition would ultimately lead to ruin. The smaller size of the Venture means long ranged Turret weapons will have a harder time hitting us, and missiles will effectively deal less damage. The largest threat to the fleet itself is other Frigate sized ships such as interceptors.

As for our targets I don't think we will be shooting a station unless one happens to be vulnerable in our travels. Our target will be the Logistic back bone of the Goon subcap fleet. This will be the single easiest, and most impactful target for our small DickVentures to tackle.

I hope to see you in fleet when it is announced, if you wish to bring your retriever by all means bring it along, although understand that there is a higher risk involved in bringing a larger, slower ship.