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To Federals, Regarding Heth

Author
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2013-06-11 23:58:00 UTC
I've had a think since last night, and I've had a change of opinion. I know how much a lot of Federal capsuleers want to be a part of all this. Gods and spirits, I know I do, and I know we've got a hell of a lot of good reasons to want that. But stay out of it for now. Stay clear, stay back, stay patient, keep a clear head and wait. Let the Caldari set their own house in order for now.

Trust me, I know how you feel. Heth might be the State's responsibility, but that doesn't mean he isn't just as much our problem as theirs. We certainly have a right to see this man brought to justice. Some Federals might demand justice on our terms, but that's asking a lot. I'm perfectly happy for it to be justice on the State's terms, because at least it's justice. Just as long as someone with a shred of sanity holds him to account for the things he's done, I'll be satisfied - and so should you.

The Federation involving itself in the State's internal affairs has not, via historical precedent, ended positively with any regularity or frequency, nor has the opposite. The State most certainly doesn't desire the intervention of the Federation's capsuleers, and given what I saw last night, it's very, very unlikely they'll need us unless there's a drastic change of circumstances. As a friend pointed out to me: "if it's just Caldari, there's the possibility, however slim, that Heth might submit to surrender and trial. If he becomes convinced that the CEP are under the sway of Gallentean agents, it'll definitely be a fight, and good people will die needlessly."

I know some of you will not be so easily swayed. Some of you will no doubt want to be a part of whatever action is taken against Heth no matter what anyone says, so if you must involve yourself, attach yourself to the fleet of a reputable CEP-aligned Caldari organisation who is willing you have you around, follow their orders, stay in the back ranks (figuratively, if not literally) and stay quiet. The Federation certainly has a huge stake in the outcome of this standoff, but it isn't our standoff to have, and it isn't our dispute to resolve. We can certainly hope for an outcome - and the outcome everyone should be hoping for, incidentally, is a resolution of this situation that does not involve the pointless deaths of thousands of crewmen - but this isn't our battle to fight. Avoid intervening unless the CEP asks you to do so, and if you absolutely must fight in it without their approval, fight for the interests of the Caldari State and its people, not ours, and certainly not our own personal motivations.

As much pain as he's caused for us, we can't be the ones to get rid of Heth. That's just us imposing our will on their civilization, and that's never served the long-term interests of either society. Trust the State, just this once. They have just as much reason to see justice done as we do, most likely more.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Evi Polevhia
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#2 - 2013-06-12 00:16:48 UTC
Sometimes I think you are a decent human.

Gallente should stay as far away from this as possible. Every Gallente that shows up is another one Heth and Kim can point to in validation for the persecution they feel. And this all coming from you I hope will give credibility to the idea. I hope many more prominant Gallente Capsuleers publicly step forward and echo this.
Anslo
Scope Works
#3 - 2013-06-12 00:19:58 UTC
I'm not prominent but I'll say what I said before. If you REALLY wanna help, get guns and ships to Luminaire or the Border and STAY on the Federation's side of it.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-06-12 00:28:42 UTC
Anslo wrote:
I'm not prominent but I'll say what I said before. If you REALLY wanna help, get guns and ships to Luminaire or the Border and STAY on the Federation's side of it.

That also works. In fact this probably works even better.

Heth would have to be utterly insane to attempt to repeat the events of five years ago, but recent events have left me completely unconvinced that he isn't utterly insane. Algogille and Luminaire are excellent places to camp out to intercept him if he tries something.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Sepherim
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2013-06-12 01:27:38 UTC
It doesn't happen often that one enters into the IGS and sees captains acting responsibly and with solid suggestions. Fortunately this is one such rare occasion, and congratulations for it captain Ixiris and captain Anslo. You honor your contry and your people with your words, and with your deeds if you fly up to them.

Sepherim Catillah Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris Liuteneant Ex-Imperial Navy Imperator Commander

James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#6 - 2013-06-12 01:33:52 UTC
A noble sentiment.

But why then should we afford the now gentle State this prize or any other measure of amity whatsoever.

Have they demonstrated anything other than utter contempt for the Federation, its culture, people and government.

Many of the same villains that now howl for Heths head have served in his campaigns with zeal.

No matter what you do, or do not, they will blame and hate.
Mebrithiel Ju'wien
Anshar Incorporated
#7 - 2013-06-12 01:35:41 UTC
Evi Polevhia wrote:
Sometimes I think you are a decent human.


That's how he lures you in.

But seriously, I don't know if that's a compliment or not coming from a Sansha drone.

Andreus, it's like I said on the related feed on this - I'm quite happy to let the State teach Heth his lesson and what it means to be Caldari.
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#8 - 2013-06-12 01:43:26 UTC
Mr. Syagrius, that is the exact sentiment that will fuel the continuation of these senseless wars between the empires.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?

Anslo
Scope Works
#9 - 2013-06-12 01:44:20 UTC
James Syagrius wrote:
A noble sentiment.

But why then should we afford the now gentle State this prize or any other measure of amity whatsoever.

Have they demonstrated anything other than utter contempt for the Federation, its culture, people and government.

Many of the same villains that now howl for Heths head have served in his campaigns with zeal.

No matter what you do, or do not, they will blame and hate.


Because Heth's bullshit doesn't reflect the State's true feelings. If you can't differentiate that then we're doomed to repeat our past mistakes.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#10 - 2013-06-12 02:42:39 UTC
Anslo wrote:
James Syagrius wrote:
A noble sentiment.

But why then should we afford the now gentle State this prize or any other measure of amity whatsoever.

Have they demonstrated anything other than utter contempt for the Federation, its culture, people and government.

Many of the same villains that now howl for Heths head have served in his campaigns with zeal.

No matter what you do, or do not, they will blame and hate.


Because Heth's bullshit doesn't reflect the State's true feelings. If you can't differentiate that then we're doomed to repeat our past mistakes.

The States True feelings.

You are a wise man indeed to have knowledge of such things. So how are we to judge these “true feelings” save through their actions.
Makkal Hanaya
Revenent Defence Corperation
#11 - 2013-06-12 02:44:23 UTC
I have to agree with this.

The State's business is its own. People from all the empires should let them sort out these issues on their own.

Render unto Khanid the things which are Khanid's; and unto God the things that are God's.

James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#12 - 2013-06-12 02:53:46 UTC  |  Edited by: James Syagrius
Makoto Priano wrote:
Mr. Syagrius, that is the exact sentiment that will fuel the continuation of these senseless wars between the empires.

I cannot disagree, what you have said is fact.

But not all war is senseless and too much has already been lost to forgive.

Perhaps thou bright minds and brave hearts can find a way.

But forgive my bitterness, I am not the man I was.
Steffanie Saissore
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#13 - 2013-06-12 02:57:43 UTC
Were we to demand Heth be given to us for judgement, or go into Caldari space without invitation from the CEP, I fear we would be repeating an unfortunate incident that played out within Federation space not too long ago.

We have to respect the requests of and the sovereignty of the CEP to deal with their own citizens. If you are concerned, follow Captain Anslo's suggest and watch to the border.

Unless the CEP or the Caldari Navy requests otherwise, it is probably for the best of all parties involved that we remain out of this State matter.

Stay vigilant.

We travel in the dark of the new moon,

A starry highway traced on the map of the sky

Shiho Weitong
Perkone
Caldari State
#14 - 2013-06-12 03:09:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Shiho Weitong
Anslo wrote:
James Syagrius wrote:
A noble sentiment.

But why then should we afford the now gentle State this prize or any other measure of amity whatsoever.

Have they demonstrated anything other than utter contempt for the Federation, its culture, people and government.

Many of the same villains that now howl for Heths head have served in his campaigns with zeal.

No matter what you do, or do not, they will blame and hate.


Because Heth's bullshit doesn't reflect the State's true feelings. If you can't differentiate that then we're doomed to repeat our past mistakes.


Forgive my interruption captain, but I feel I must protest.

The state does not feel. It simply reasons, then reacts.
The state cares not for trivial human emotion, nor should it.
Whatever serves the state better, is the path the state should take.

We give ourselves willingly to the study of warfare, intrigue and tactics, so that our dynasties may study philosophy, math and art.
Our personal feelings on the subject does not matter. We are of the state and we must act as such.

Ed: Reasoning have been in short supply for a bit more than 5 years, but luckily the market is evolving.
Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#15 - 2013-06-12 03:15:02 UTC
Thank you, sir. You reflect the highest ideals of the Federation.

This difficult time will be over shortly.
Anslo
Scope Works
#16 - 2013-06-12 03:18:51 UTC
Shiho, sorry. That was poorly worded. I hope you got the idea I was trying (and failing) to get across hah.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Shiho Weitong
Perkone
Caldari State
#17 - 2013-06-12 03:26:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Shiho Weitong
Anslo wrote:
Shiho, sorry. That was poorly worded. I hope you got the idea I was trying (and failing) to get across hah.


No excuses needed Anslo.

I consider you a man of merit, and a man of straight words.
I did not read your comment as a convoluted attack of sorts, but merely as a case of a bad choice of words.
I just wanted to point out the fact, that we citizens are generally proud to keep our feelings a private matter, and as such, actions driven by emotion will usually be the actions of individual but powerful extremists and very rarely the state as a whole.

The CEP is historically, if nothing else, very good at running a pragmatic business.
Sorjat
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2013-06-12 03:28:49 UTC
Some very noble sentiments expressed captain Ixiris, very similar to some of my own that I have expressed before in other venues. Regrettably the affair is most certainly as much Gallente business as the madman Executor of the Caldari State has at his disposal a hundred or so capital ships of the line. We cannot dismiss the potential harm he is capable of against the Federation.

Federation Tripwire forces have recently been reinforced in Algogille. I am waiting there for a call for the General Mobilization of all Federal forces and a return to active service... should there be a need.

As much as I would like give the Caldari the opportunity to resolve matters the Caldari way, aka 'kill each other'. Events are moving rapidly and can change on a moments notice. As generous as your suggestion is to give our enemies space to resolve their internal matters, and is no doubt genuine, I think it is foolish in the extreme and a potentially a very costly mistake.

Remember this Captain. Only one thing, and one thing alone can salvage Tibus Heth's reputation at this point... and that would be a successful campaign against Federal forces. Are you so sure those 'surrounding' Caldari forces won't join him on his campaign? What about his allies the Amarrians?? How do you know that he is 'cornered'? Because your enemies told you so?? This is potentially pure Caldari Psi Op.

The time has come to up the ante. I implore the Federal Senate to order the full-scale mobilization of Federal forces and defend our space before it is too late.

Insanity is not hubris, not pride; it is inflation of the ego to its ultimate - confusion between him who worships and that which is worshipped. Man has not eaten God; God has eaten man.

-- PKD

Steffanie Saissore
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#19 - 2013-06-12 03:45:33 UTC
Sorjat wrote:
Some very noble sentiments expressed captain Ixiris, very similar to some of my own that I have expressed before in other venues. Regrettably the affair is most certainly as much Gallente business as the madman Executor of the Caldari State has at his disposal a hundred or so capital ships of the line. We cannot dismiss the potential harm he is capable of against the Federation.

Federation Tripwire forces have recently been reinforced in Algogille. I am waiting there for a call for the General Mobilization of all Federal forces and a return to active service... should there be a need.

As much as I would like give the Caldari the opportunity to resolve matters the Caldari way, aka 'kill each other'. Events are moving rapidly and can change on a moments notice. As generous as your suggestion is to give our enemies space to resolve their internal matters, and is no doubt genuine, I think it is foolish in the extreme and a potentially a very costly mistake.

Remember this Captain. Only one thing, and one thing alone can salvage Tibus Heth's reputation at this point... and that would be a successful campaign against Federal forces. Are you so sure those 'surrounding' Caldari forces won't join him on his campaign? What about his allies the Amarrians?? How do you know that he is 'cornered'? Because your enemies told you so?? This is potentially pure Caldari Psi Op.

The time has come to up the ante. I implore the Federal Senate to order the full-scale mobilization of Federal forces and defend our space before it is too late.


There was nothing said about not defending our borders. A full mobilization however would appear as an act of aggression and would, in fact, grant Heth a sliver of credibility in the eyes of the State.

What you ask, nay are demanding, would be playing into the hands of the likes of Heth and Provosts like Captain Kim. Get a hold of your passion and realize that patience and vigilance in this matter are more conducive than rash action. If you feel the need to run across the border on some notion that Heth "might" act the Federation, that is your choice and your doom. I would merely ask that you do not doom the Federation that you claim to protect to a similar doom through brashness and bravado.

I am somewhat dubious of your claims that Heth has access to a hundred capital ships of the line. Cite your source, otherwise you are fear-mongering and doing no one any favors.

Watch, and wait. Let the Caldari Navy and the CEP deal with the situation. Respect the CEP's authority in this matter. This is in Caldari space and is a Caldari matter. If you cannot see that, then ask yourself the question: would you want the Caldari, the Amarr, or the Minmatar deciding they knew how best to handle a Gallente issue in Gallente space?"

We travel in the dark of the new moon,

A starry highway traced on the map of the sky

Sorjat
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2013-06-12 04:48:04 UTC
I respect your views Captain Saissore and I assure you that I am waiting with my railguns locked and loaded in Algogille. I have said as much and I am urging preparation. As much as you may pretend otherwise, internal Caldari affairs are a Federal matter all the more so because we are currently at war with them.

As for your concern about appearances it makes no difference to me if the State Executor Tibus Heth invades Federal space based on the 'appearance of a threat', he has a mood swing or he drinks too much Quafe in the morning. We are at War not at peace and if he comes we have to meet force with force, not sentiments of respect.

As for my sources, like everyone's they are sketchy at best and like most things from Caldari space... of dubious quality. What I am certain of though is that a large number of Caldari capital ships are massing in the Caldari Border Zone right now as we speak. Apparently from different factions but we can't know for sure. We all know the Caldari martial codes demand a resolution in combat, which is fine, if they direct it at each other.

But what if not? The Amarrians have an awful lot invested in Tibus Heth and have undoubtedly thought of taking advantage of the situation. Furthermore, all Caldari have been humiliated by the loss of the Shiigeru... their martial code demands revenge. How can you be so sure they won't rally to Heth's banner or whoever eventually replaces him? Instead of complacency and coddling our enemies sensitivities what is needed a real show of Gallentean resolve. You can't fight a war by just blocking someone else's punches all the time.

In a previous post I suggested that Tibus Heth take personal command next time he invades. Sometimes, just sometimes, we do get what we wish for...

Insanity is not hubris, not pride; it is inflation of the ego to its ultimate - confusion between him who worships and that which is worshipped. Man has not eaten God; God has eaten man.

-- PKD

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