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PvP sucks when you are new
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NightCrawler 85
Phoibe Enterprises
#21 - 2013-06-11 16:40:30 UTC
Apherolaz wrote:


I have tried to learn - believe me, i have. I've spent more hours reading and watching videos about what to do, than i have playing the game. I mistakenly thought that if i learnt some useful combat skills and techniques, i might be able to offset my lack of skill points and crummy hardware.


The fact that you have spent time outside of EVE trying to learn is great, believe me. But EVE is also the kind of game were you wont "really" learn until you do it. So keep going out there, look for fights, get blown up in cheap ships, and eventually you will know what ships you can stand up against, and what ships you should run away from if at all possible.
PVP also has some luck involved in it. Finding a "fair" fight can be very hard, but they are out there.

You said you were also looking for other younger players to fight against... I can imagine this is quite difficult since many new players have a.. fear or concern about PVP since they are convinced they need X amount of SP to do anything in PVP.

So, there really is not much advice i can give you...
Ask in local for players around your age that wants to duel for practice.
Go on roams with your corp/alliance/friends.
Join a group like RVB were you can* get useful advice, and get a chance to see both smaller and larger fleets.

*As far as i know RVB don't officially "train" new players but if your patient and polite some of the older players there are willing to set off some time to help you and answer questions.

Phoibe Enterprises

The Eve Reader -  Audio Recordings of Eve Chronicles
Praxis Ginimic
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2013-06-11 16:51:11 UTC
What you seem to be missing, the reason that you're getting such a bad reaction from what is normally a warm and fuzzy community is that any skill only goes to lvl 5. If you choose a roll and specialize it only takes a few months to have just as much skill as a vet. They get insulted when some one implies that the countless hours of practice that have been put in can be boiled down to SP.

The only thing extra skill points allows for is diversity. Just keep shooting at stuff. Pay your dues like all the vets did. In 3 month's time you will wish you had picked this game up 10 yrs ago. I know I do
Nox Solitudo
That Random Worker Ant Colony
#23 - 2013-06-11 16:57:19 UTC
Apherolaz wrote:
I can't for the life of me find the part where i stated or even implied that i needed instant gratification / winning?

PvP is supposed to be one of the bigger draw cards for the game. However, PvP is only an exercise in frustration for new players - and this is pretty much what i had expected from the start. I didn't expect to be an invincible pirate pwning badass roaming 0.0 in my tech 1 Rifter. I expected that players who had been playing the game for years, and had accumulated stacks of ISK and skill points would stomp my guts out. This is why i never really bothered with Eve in the first place (before i was convinced otherwise).

I'm not saying the system is wrong and that it shouldn't be this way, im simply making an observation.

Again, i don't expect to be able to go toe to toe with veteran players.

What I had hoped was that maybe, if i was lucky, that at some point in amongst getting reduced to space scrap, i might actually chance across someone else unfortunate enough to be on the same level as myself; another lowly newbie in a lowly tech 1 frigate - and the thing is, i don't even care if i lose - i just want to be able to participate in something other than a completely one sided beat down. There just doesn't seem to be all that many newbies (or anyone tbh) playing the game, and what player base there is seems to be quite top heavy. I guess that is just what happens when you have a game that is as old as Eve is now.

I have tried to learn - believe me, i have. I've spent more hours reading and watching videos about what to do, than i have playing the game. I mistakenly thought that if i learnt some useful combat skills and techniques, i might be able to offset my lack of skill points and crummy hardware.



OK I actually put some effort into it and looked at your killboard.

http://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&view=kills&plt_id=1659100

Corporation: Fugutive Task Force
Alliance: Caldari State
Kills: 3
Losses: 10
Damage done (ISK): 0.45B
Damage received (ISK): 0.05B
Chance of enemy survival: 76.92%
Pilot Efficiency (ISK): 90.7%

3 of your losses are capsules - ask your corpmates how to avoid such deaths. 7 of your losses are frigates, which is absolutely okay. You have participated on kills of 1 batteship, 1 battlecruiser, 1 cruiser, all of them bigger ships than your rifter. I've seen at least one Condor participated to one of your kills, so either someone is running T1 frig for fun, or you were actually fighting in a fleet with at least one other newbie.

I don't know how exactly these 3 fights occured, but this is precisely what you as a newbie can do - cooperate with you team and add your bullets / ECM / web / points to final victory.

Also, it's good that you've joined a corp. Go roaming with them and soon you'll have more kills and more importantly - more experience.
Haulie Berry
#24 - 2013-06-11 17:11:37 UTC
Apherolaz wrote:


I have tried to learn - believe me, i have.



Okay, and? My takeaway from this is that you haven't learned yet. I'm quite certain I could roll a new character and be scoring kills in FW in fairly short order.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#25 - 2013-06-11 17:13:54 UTC
Apherolaz wrote:
It annoys me that i was right. I shouldn't have bothered. Unfortunately i've signed up for 3 months of this. Sigh, what a waste.

Go apply to Brave Newbies Inc.

Fighting and dying with friends is what makes EVE great.
Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
#26 - 2013-06-11 17:34:05 UTC
Rig your rifters and stop using the old cookie cutter rifter fit because that's what you read was the leetz pro newb ship. That's old news, most frigates these days are viable pvp ships and can hang with a rifter or outperform it.

Start looking up people's killboards who kill you and search their losses to see how they are fitting.

See you learned 2 things now...
Verra Keyne
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2013-06-11 17:49:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Verra Keyne
Apherolaz wrote:
I can't for the life of me find the part where i stated or even implied that i needed instant gratification / winning?

PvP is supposed to be one of the bigger draw cards for the game. However, PvP is only an exercise in frustration for new players - and this is pretty much what i had expected from the start. I didn't expect to be an invincible pirate pwning badass roaming 0.0 in my tech 1 Rifter. I expected that players who had been playing the game for years, and had accumulated stacks of ISK and skill points would stomp my guts out. This is why i never really bothered with Eve in the first place (before i was convinced otherwise).

I'm not saying the system is wrong and that it shouldn't be this way, im simply making an observation.

Again, i don't expect to be able to go toe to toe with veteran players.

What I had hoped was that maybe, if i was lucky, that at some point in amongst getting reduced to space scrap, i might actually chance across someone else unfortunate enough to be on the same level as myself; another lowly newbie in a lowly tech 1 frigate - and the thing is, i don't even care if i lose - i just want to be able to participate in something other than a completely one sided beat down. There just doesn't seem to be all that many newbies (or anyone tbh) playing the game, and what player base there is seems to be quite top heavy. I guess that is just what happens when you have a game that is as old as Eve is now.

I have tried to learn - believe me, i have. I've spent more hours reading and watching videos about what to do, than i have playing the game. I mistakenly thought that if i learnt some useful combat skills and techniques, i might be able to offset my lack of skill points and crummy hardware.


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=7370

Also, some very important advice; LOSE THE ATTITUDE. Stop taking things in this game so seriously, and realize that "pvp" to a lot of people includes "making you angry" - if they get you mad, they "won". So sit down, chill out, if you get blown up, take it in stride, maybe even start a convo with the pilot that killed you and find out what you did wrong. Really.
Ace Menda
Gemini Lounge
#28 - 2013-06-11 18:07:33 UTC
NightCrawler 85 wrote:
Apherolaz wrote:


I have tried to learn - believe me, i have. I've spent more hours reading and watching videos about what to do, than i have playing the game. I mistakenly thought that if i learnt some useful combat skills and techniques, i might be able to offset my lack of skill points and crummy hardware.


The fact that you have spent time outside of EVE trying to learn is great, believe me. But EVE is also the kind of game were you wont "really" learn until you do it. So keep going out there, look for fights, get blown up in cheap ships, and eventually you will know what ships you can stand up against, and what ships you should run away from if at all possible.
PVP also has some luck involved in it. Finding a "fair" fight can be very hard, but they are out there.

You said you were also looking for other younger players to fight against... I can imagine this is quite difficult since many new players have a.. fear or concern about PVP since they are convinced they need X amount of SP to do anything in PVP.

So, there really is not much advice i can give you...
Ask in local for players around your age that wants to duel for practice.
Go on roams with your corp/alliance/friends.
Join a group like RVB were you can* get useful advice, and get a chance to see both smaller and larger fleets.

*As far as i know RVB don't officially "train" new players but if your patient and polite some of the older players there are willing to set off some time to help you and answer questions.


Confirming.

RvB is NOT a training community

They are 2 alliances in constant war with each other. But they don't care if you are 1 minute or 10 years old in EVE, you can join them and they do have a special division that is there to help new players to get their PvP feet wet without too much drama.

Are you in need of some nice chat? Are you new and want some help? Look no further and join: Crazy Dutch Guy
Drax Concrilla
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2013-06-11 19:58:15 UTC
"PvP sucks when you're new" - False. PvP sucks when you are uninformed. EVE is a game of knowledge, most of your PvP fights are going to be determined simply by what you engage or allow yourself to be engaged by.

It gets better. As others have said, there's multiple roles that you can fill with low SP in a gang. Pick one of these roles for now, and if your goal is something else then train for that in the meantime.

I've netted many kills on brand new characters while roaming with a brand new friend or after periods of inactivity on a trial account before resubbing. At a basic level all you need to get started is a scram/distruptor and some guns. A Rail Incursus is a great, great ship to start in and would take you less than a day to get into.
Forest Archer
State War Academy
Caldari State
#30 - 2013-06-11 20:07:46 UTC
Also as a side note from an outside perspective it doesn't seem like your corp is training you in the ins and outs of pvp well if at all.

Always willing to help all you have to do is ask, though if you're in the other fleet I may not help the way you want. Just a heads up. Pub Channel: Lost Souls Trading Post
Enockx Kaine
Doomheim
#31 - 2013-06-11 20:30:34 UTC
Dude I have only been here for like two weeks, but I think i might know what your problem is. You can't expect to jump into the first ship you have access to and just go straight to nullsec or whatever place you are flying and dying in. 1--you have no skills yet, so you don't have access to very many modules. 2--If you are just flying around by yourself, then someone with longer range guns is probably blowing you away before you can close the distance and shoot back.

Am I right? The only way you could be competitive is if you happened upon another lowbie in a tech 1 frigate with no skills. but those of us that are just beginning and really want to play the game for the long haul....like me....haven't even attempted any pvp yet. I am busy earning money and training skills so that my weak Tech 1 frigate can be a halfway decent tech 1 frigate.

Also, it is my understanding that almost no one flies around solo in null sec. If they APPEAR to be solo, then as soon as you roll up on them and open fire, some crazy Millenium Falcon looking thing with 17 lasers and a BFG from the original DOOM game will appear out of nowhere and swallow you whole.

Keep in mind I have never SEEN such a thing....I haven't left High sec yet. I am biding my time and gaining strength before I do. But when I DO decide to go out into the pvp places, I won't go alone. I don't think this game works like that if thats what you want to do. at least not until you are way stronger than two days in.
Praxis Ginimic
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2013-06-11 21:17:46 UTC
Enockx Kaine wrote:
Dude I have only been here for like two weeks, but I think i might know what your problem is. You can't expect to jump into the first ship you have access to and just go straight to nullsec or whatever place you are flying and dying in. 1--you have no skills yet, so you don't have access to very many modules. 2--If you are just flying around by yourself, then someone with longer range guns is probably blowing you away before you can close the distance and shoot back.

Am I right? The only way you could be competitive is if you happened upon another lowbie in a tech 1 frigate with no skills. but those of us that are just beginning and really want to play the game for the long haul....like me....haven't even attempted any pvp yet. I am busy earning money and training skills so that my weak Tech 1 frigate can be a halfway decent tech 1 frigate.

Also, it is my understanding that almost no one flies around solo in null sec. If they APPEAR to be solo, then as soon as you roll up on them and open fire, some crazy Millenium Falcon looking thing with 17 lasers and a BFG from the original DOOM game will appear out of nowhere and swallow you whole.

Keep in mind I have never SEEN such a thing....I haven't left High sec yet. I am biding my time and gaining strength before I do. But when I DO decide to go out into the pvp places, I won't go alone. I don't think this game works like that if thats what you want to do. at least not until you are way stronger than two days in.



NO
paritybit
Stimulus
#33 - 2013-06-11 21:42:10 UTC  |  Edited by: paritybit
I got tired of reading all the negative responses (including your responses to the responses), so I skipped them.

You can read it all, and it won't be enough. You can watch it all, and it still won't be enough. You should:

  • After a fight, be polite and ask why you had so much trouble. You won't always get a good response, but you might -- and it will help you.
  • Find a group of players who do very small gang and solo pvp and see if they'll let you tag along on a couple of roams. Ask them questions. Ask them lots of questions. Most of us are willing to teach new players.
  • Remember the answers. And if you forget, ask the question again. Nobody is perfect and it takes time to learn.
  • When you spot a potential target it's very helpful to have someone to ask questions about the the fight you might be facing. This goes back to finding a group of players who will let you ask them questions.
  • Have a good attitude. That is, don't get upset when things don't go your way (I'm not saying that you do) and most other pilots -- even hostile pilots -- will respond better to your questions.
  • Pick an area to fly and learn the people who fly there. If a group of pilots piles on excessive force every time, try not to fight them again. If another group offers good fights (even if you lose) remember them and keep at it.
  • Remember that the shaping of the fight is most of the victory -- you will want to fight something you know you stand a chance against and make sure that you'll be fighting on your terms rather than getting jumped by a much larger gang -- this takes experience and knowledge. This is where other people can help you until you have enough of these two valuable resources on your own.
  • There are many fights you cannot win. Avoid them. See all the above suggestions to figure out how to do that.


If you're having trouble, come to Placid and eve-mail me. I'll set you up with details about a public channel where people might help you. I'm a pirate, and this will set you up for piracy -- but if you have something else in mind join one of the many groups who claim to help newbies (such as Brave Newbies Inc. or Rifterlings) -- but make sure they have players in your timezone or your experience will be very bad.
Zak Breen
Breen Enterprises
#34 - 2013-06-11 22:20:29 UTC
Whoever has the bigger blob usually wins. It's BvB, not PvP. Skills take a lot of time to acquire and yes, you'll be inferior to nearly everyone when you first start. I think this is why EVE gets such a bad rep in the learning department. It's not a hard game at all - it just takes an insane amount of time to do anything. Sane people don't normally wait that long. (grin)

That said, perhaps EVE isn't for you? No shame in that.

Maturity, one discovers, has everything to do with the acceptance of not knowing. http://www.di.fm/spacemusic
Zanzbar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2013-06-11 23:30:12 UTC
Zak Breen wrote:
Whoever has the bigger blob usually wins. It's BvB, not PvP. Skills take a lot of time to acquire and yes, you'll be inferior to nearly everyone when you first start. I think this is why EVE gets such a bad rep in the learning department. It's not a hard game at all - it just takes an insane amount of time to do anything. Sane people don't normally wait that long. (grin)

That said, perhaps EVE isn't for you? No shame in that.


its only blob v blob if you let it be that way
Steel Olgidar
Sartre Compact
#36 - 2013-06-11 23:48:35 UTC
I'm still a newb and I haven't done much PvP, I have done a bit of FW but as others have said, spend some time training and making money. Learn better fits, I've been successful with a rifter only by taking advantage of its speed to get in close and **** with mg's.
If you really want to duke it out with another new player and have a fair fight, find me in minnie space and let's do it. I have frigates for days, bpo's to make more whenever I need and mining in my own time for materials and isk.

There are only three things worth nothing in Eve; ISK; Skill Points and Getting Blown up. Once you learn this, the universe truly sets you free.
Apherolaz
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2013-06-12 02:44:48 UTC
Zak Breen wrote:
It's not a hard game at all - it just takes an insane amount of time to do anything. Sane people don't normally wait that long. (grin)

That said, perhaps EVE isn't for you? No shame in that.



Yeah, so it would seem! - I do wish i had gotten into the game a long time ago.


I absolutely agree that it isn't for everybody. The game is pretty much as i expected it would be - i was just hoping i would be wrong! Anyway, i was just checking it out - i normally play World of Tanks and a few other games here and there. I probably should have seen out the trial first though, haha - so i DID learn something! :)

Thanks for the helpful responses though. I appreciate it.


All the best.
Enockx Kaine
Doomheim
#38 - 2013-06-12 03:34:23 UTC
Praxis Ginimic wrote:
Enockx Kaine wrote:
Dude I have only been here for like two weeks, but I think i might know what your problem is. You can't expect to jump into the first ship you have access to and just go straight to nullsec or whatever place you are flying and dying in. 1--you have no skills yet, so you don't have access to very many modules. 2--If you are just flying around by yourself, then someone with longer range guns is probably blowing you away before you can close the distance and shoot back.

Am I right? The only way you could be competitive is if you happened upon another lowbie in a tech 1 frigate with no skills. but those of us that are just beginning and really want to play the game for the long haul....like me....haven't even attempted any pvp yet. I am busy earning money and training skills so that my weak Tech 1 frigate can be a halfway decent tech 1 frigate.

Also, it is my understanding that almost no one flies around solo in null sec. If they APPEAR to be solo, then as soon as you roll up on them and open fire, some crazy Millenium Falcon looking thing with 17 lasers and a BFG from the original DOOM game will appear out of nowhere and swallow you whole.

Keep in mind I have never SEEN such a thing....I haven't left High sec yet. I am biding my time and gaining strength before I do. But when I DO decide to go out into the pvp places, I won't go alone. I don't think this game works like that if thats what you want to do. at least not until you are way stronger than two days in.



NO



NO?????? Not even MAYBE? or PERHAPS? just NO? REALLY?

I humbly ask for some enlightenment for I am an EvE Virgin. Flying spaceships for the very first time. An EvE Viiiiiiirrrrrrrrgin with your beam turret next to mine.

I could go on, but I won't. I DO want some enlightenment though. I want more knowledge.
Rynn Vendran
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2013-06-12 03:43:49 UTC
Untanas Volmyr wrote:
Every death or failure in this game is a learning process. Ship types, equipment used. Most common tactics. The best part of being a noob here is you don't have much to lose. There's pretty much a whole galaxy to gain.


This. Sure it sucks to get killed (podded, even worse) but you have to keep it in perspective and realize that the next time you're in that situation, you're going to react differently. I can totally see how the frustration issue could lead one to question why they even joined this game in the first place, but the rewards really do outweigh the despairing moments, of which there will be many. Just keep at it, apply the lessons learned and most importantly don't take it all too seriously. It really does get better.

Blink

_Hey now, hey now now, sing this corrosion to me... _
Eram Fidard
Doomheim
#40 - 2013-06-12 03:44:57 UTC
Apherolaz wrote:
Zak Breen wrote:
It's not a hard game at all - it just takes an insane amount of time to do anything. Sane people don't normally wait that long. (grin)

That said, perhaps EVE isn't for you? No shame in that.



Yeah, so it would seem! - I do wish i had gotten into the game a long time ago.


I absolutely agree that it isn't for everybody. The game is pretty much as i expected it would be - i was just hoping i would be wrong! Anyway, i was just checking it out - i normally play World of Tanks and a few other games here and there. I probably should have seen out the trial first though, haha - so i DID learn something! :)

Thanks for the helpful responses though. I appreciate it.


All the best.




Holy instant gratification, batman.

You need to take a look back over this thread, there are good responses, and idiots. Don't listen to the idiots.

Change your ****** attitude, find a decent corp, and HTFU

Poster is not to be held responsible for damages to keyboards and/or noses caused by hot beverages.