Crime & Punishment

counterpoint: technetium

also you're dumb hth

Aha! I challenge you to a duel!
No one insults my good name without consequences.



PS: I wouldn't know the first thing about technetium, please elaborate.

The "technetium" does not bring new ISK into the economy, unlike Incursions (which is an ISK faucet).

Too many ISK faucets and you end up with widespread inflation.

Incursion Bear 1: "Why is there a Velator wreck in this OTA?"
Incursion Bear 2: "Be careful, they're can flagging the sites."

Protip: Watch out for those 'can flagged' sites!

~Andrei.

Wrong. I know a fair bit of economics, don't throw that bullshit at me please. Just because CCP isn't actively doing something about this doesn't mean that it isn't affecting the economy, either beneficially or adversely. It takes a MASSIVE change or a sizable length of time to affect a system the size of EVE's.

Addendum: And just because something doesn't unbalance the economy doesn't mean it's fair, or a good game mechanic. A lone pilot in a good incursion fleet can make 10 million isk every 5 minutes or better, plus LP. To catch up to this, you have to be making 50 million isk wallet flashes in nullsec.

It's not like you're going to make ANY money in incursions if you aren't fit out with really fancy equipment, either. The boundary for entry in many incursion fleets is "lots of shiny equipment" and that's basically it. It's a self-perpetuating loop, and people coming late to the game are cut out of it unless they were already rich. The rich get richer, and the poor can't get into a fleet and have to go back to slow missioning.

Go skunkworks!

These incubears have no sense of humor.

Aine, I don't think they're expressing any particular jealousy. I mean, I've made the offer several times that if people want to come along and be taught how it's done we'll teach them. A couple people have taken us up on it.

Even without that, I've seen a small handful of people doing it on their own. It's not difficult. Power power to them in those cases.

People can give us props for doing good work without wanting to stab us in the kidneys and replace us as Kings of This Week. You should probably chill out a bit.

I know saying we killed 100+ bil worth of ships sounds impresive, and I know you can all see it on our killboard, but for al the people who don't want to look trough pages and pages on our killboard, heres a basic flat list of the ships we have killed.

Battleships:
4x Bhaalgorns
33x Machariels
20x Nightmares
2x Rattlesnakes
6x Navy Ravens Issue
11x Ravens
10x Scorpion Navy Issue
1x Fleet tempest
3x tempests
2x Megathron Navy Issue
2x Megathron
3x Rokhs
2x Maelstrom

Logistics:
16x scimitars
3x guardians
48x basilisks

Command Ships:
2x Nighthawks

Marauders:
2x golems
1x Kronos
1x Paladin
3x Vargur

Strategic Cruisers:
4x Lokis
1x Tengu

Battle Cruisers:
1x Hurricane

And thats not including faction mods, people that have ejected, people who self destructed, and people we let go if they paid a ransom.

OK - so you have come to the conclusion that we cannot judge by ourselves whether Incursions are effectively unbalancing the EVE economy. We can guess, we can discuss, but we can't put a 99 % idiot proof theory on the table.

fair. Many forum trolls will call you stupid for coupling EVE and fair together, but I will look beside that.
Are incursions fair?

I am pretty sure Skunkworks would say no or that is what they are implying or simply this is the picture I get of them. There's something they dislike about incursions and therefore are out to hurt (grief) the pilots who participate in them.
I am also pretty sure that most nullsec-ponies would say no, it's not fair (even though most of them have no idea how incursions work and most of it are just what they've heard from a 3rd party, take a look for yourself in this thread!).



What I wrote in quote up there ^ are facts (and CCP statements). They are not to be discussed unless CCP themselves state otherwise.

One of Psychotic Monk's reasoning for doing this:



That reasoning is to be frank, completely ********. It's just his perspective, it is not backed up by anything. There's no data to say "Since incursions were introduced lowsec, nullsec and wormhole PVP has been stagnating. There's less PvP all over EVE and we can see an influx of pilots moving to highsec and more specifically incursion constellations."

Like I have said, but it seems like no one wants to argue with me on that. Only a few percent are actually doing incursions of the collective player base. I am not talking about how many pilots have TRIED incursions, but the size of pilots doing incursions on average of say a week. It's just a small percentage, but because it's getting so much attention from media and it's always visible on those journals or because we hear about it all the time through player news or these threads on the forum it seems like a lot, but it's not! It's only 5 % if not less.
Are you even aware that the realistic limit of how many pilots can (--->actively<---) run incursions in highsec before it gets absolutely ridiculously crowded is about 500 pilots?

So what is your problem? I mean honestly there's actually not a problem. Realistically there's no:

we're trying to save the EVE economy,
we're doing everyone a favor,
we hope that this can move pilots to nullsec and lowsec so we can PvP more.

^that sounds like utter bullshit to me.
We've agreed on, YOU as a griefer can't possibly save the EVE economy, you don't have the tools, the power or the knowledge.
You're not doing everyone a favor, because not everyone agrees with you and your perspective.

The interesting thing is .. we want more pilots in lowsec and nullsec. A very nice and honorable goal, but again it does not fit reality.
Killing someone's vessel continuously does not inspire people to go out and PvP. It makes them frustrated yes, it might work for some, yes, but it doesn't really give a sense of victory or in anyway encouragement to PvP.

"A guy just killed me, his reasoning is that he wants me to go PvP. Since he killed my ship and made me lose ISK I am going to listen to this lovely new friend of mine and do his bidding. I am going to start PvP'ing... even though I just lost some ISK I am sure a new PvP'er like me can earn some ISK for every day life in dangerous space.".... right?
Utter bullshit.

On the other hand if pilots in highsec get wealthy they will one day consider going into lowsec,nullsec to PvP. Why not? It's not like they are gonna lose anything but a ship and a few implants.
They can actually afford to lose what they fly.

Again, I don't see an overall clear reasoning for this besides reputation, tears and fun.