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Jita Population Limit

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Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
#201 - 2013-06-10 17:16:09 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
CCP Explorer wrote:
No, the load would stay the same (because it's traffic related) and we would lower the cap accordingly with the number of spambots that would have gone away.

There are X pilots causing load and Y spambots. The cap is at X+Y.


Since the problem isn't going away as it's a player choice to trade in one place, how about increasing the hardware to compensate for it? More blades since it's traffic related and not data?

If not more hardware, financial incentives to redistribute the load? Because truthfully every faction zone should have their trade capital. Ferrying goods from Amarr or Gallente space to Jita to sale is not only a resource hog, it's a time hog.


Yes, it would make perfect sense to raise the trading tax in hubs. Raise it slightly in the 3-4 lesser hubs, and raise it drastically in Jita. Maybe double it in the lesser hubs (a x2 multiplier to the base value, skillz have x2 effect), and triple is in Jita (x3 multiplier to base value, skillz have x3 effect).

That'll create som incentive for everyone to consider conducting their business elsewhere. As opposed to me as a sole individual being fed up with it and trying to set up somehere else, and suffering the slow economy of a non-hub station.
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
#202 - 2013-06-10 17:30:15 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Condrad Antollare wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Amarr is only like 8 jumps away.


I'm pretty sure you missed the point, this thread is about getting into Jita, not Amarr - Please read before posting.


and the solution is to move to amarr. i think you missed the point.


But the problem isn't that I'm in amarr instead of Jita. The problem is that at least 10 times as much business, and probably more correctly 30-40 times as much business, is in Jita as is in Amarr. The problem isn't me being in Jita. The problem is everyone else being in Jita.

If I want to sell something, I can travel to Jita and sell is real fast, or I can travel to Amarr and put it up for sale, and maybe i'll be gone in a couple of days, eve if I massively underbid everybody ele

If I want to buy something, most often several different semi-obscure or are items, I can travel to Jita and buy it immediately from existing Buy Orders, at competetive prices, or I can travel to Amarr, and if I'm lucky half the items are actually available for sale, but at non-competetive prices, and even then I'll still have to put up Buy Orders for the other semi-obscure or rare stuff that I want, and wait a week or longer to get them filled.

I am completely powerless to solve this problem. I have no power to solve it. CCP, via changes - nay, improvements - to the game design, do have power to solve the problem. They can add differentaited station taxes. They can add stargate fees. They can do something that has an actual effect on the behaviour of the player mass.
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#203 - 2013-06-10 17:38:41 UTC
CCP Explorer wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Amarr is only like 8 jumps away.

^^ +10

I wonder if CCP is ready to reinforce Ammar like they do Jita if it becomes a larger trade hub. There's been outbreaks of TiDi there too in the last few weeks. I seem to recall Dr E saying in a presentation ~2years ago that Ammarr Empire population has been swelling which makes it a good trade hub.
We reinforced Amarr on 1 June on hardware in the class below Jita to provide better performance.


+10 Cool beans now there needs to be a player mentlity shift to support a 2nd major HUB.
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Socks the Fox
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#204 - 2013-06-10 20:53:13 UTC
Obunagawe wrote:

Jita is apparently single-threaded and already running on a i7 with 5GHz and 64GB RAM. They'd have to work out some way to make it multi-threaded and that will never happen.



That's not true. There's no way that's true. Please don't let that be true.

CCP Explorer, is that really true?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#205 - 2013-06-10 21:06:28 UTC
Socks the Fox wrote:
Obunagawe wrote:

Jita is apparently single-threaded and already running on a i7 with 5GHz and 64GB RAM. They'd have to work out some way to make it multi-threaded and that will never happen.

That's not true. There's no way that's true. Please don't let that be true.

CCP Explorer, is that really true?

Which part? It's true that large portions of the code is a single-threaded and that one of the main obstacles right now is the inability to make use of multiple cores for a single system (or even split it up into one core per grid or some other logical subdivision). That's why throwing more hardware at the problem solves almost nothing.

It's also why they're looking more into cutting out large chunks and kind-of-multithread it by offloading certain tasks onto specialised servers — brain-in-a-box and the distributed dispatcher are two of those monolithic blocks of non-system-specific tasks that could be done by somewhere else than within the main solar system loop.
Doc Spectre
Doomheim
#206 - 2013-06-10 21:10:56 UTC
Um.... It's a closely guarded secret that the Jita Server is an old 8088XT with a 10 Megabyte MFM hard drive. Running DOS 1.0... So relax, its as good as it gets...
Malak Dawnfire
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#207 - 2013-06-10 21:18:15 UTC
If Jita is full how will I travel there to stay with my family for the 4th of July this year!??!? CCP DO SOMETHINGAttentionAttentionAttention
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#208 - 2013-06-11 01:15:43 UTC
Socks the Fox wrote:
Obunagawe wrote:

Jita is apparently single-threaded and already running on a i7 with 5GHz and 64GB RAM. They'd have to work out some way to make it multi-threaded and that will never happen.



That's not true. There's no way that's true. Please don't let that be true.

CCP Explorer, is that really true?


Multithreading provides limited benefit when the order of operations is critical. The overhead for checking that everything's being reported in the same order is generally quite large.

Guess what, order of operations in space in EVE are critical, so...

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Raiz Nhell
Tactically Challenged
The Initiative.
#209 - 2013-06-11 01:28:10 UTC
Would love for people to realise that Jita is not the be all and end all... There is nothing special about Jita... apart from the fact that it has a pop cap...

If you are so desperate for the Jita market then dock up in Perimeter... 1-5 jumps isn't exactly a massively big deal... I always set my market to show the region.


There is no such thing as a fair fight...

If your fighting fair you have automatically put yourself at a disadvantage.
Super spikinator
Hegemonous Conscripts
#210 - 2013-06-11 02:08:18 UTC
Condrad Antollare wrote:
CCP Explorer wrote:
Noddy Comet wrote:
CCP Veritas wrote:
People sitting in station chatting contribute practically zero load to the machine running the solar system.
Yet they add to the total population limit, correct?
There are X pilots causing load and Y spambots. The cap is at X+Y.


Get a better server? I thought this was a sandbox but apparently the devs are trying to put a hold on economic growth in Jita


There are more people in Jita at peak than a world of warcraft realm can handle in total. The amount of processing needed for Jita is phenomenal. The next needed step really to "solve" Jita would be to rewrite the entire game. The next best thing is what they are doing, while encouraging people to explore other hubs (Amarr finally qualified for its own node so could handle Jita like traffic now for example).
Noddy Comet
Lysdexic Agnostics - Thier is no Dog
#211 - 2013-06-11 10:52:38 UTC
Fact:

If everyone went to Ammar instead of Jita, the spambots would never figure it out and follow which would solve everyone's problem here.

LETSDOOEEET!

[i]"The biggest problem with quotes on the Internet, is that just because it's on the Internet too many believe them to be real" -[/i]Abraham Lincoln's "Berlin Wall" speech at the 1984 Winter Olympics.
CCP Explorer
C C P
C C P Alliance
#212 - 2013-06-11 19:31:21 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Explorer
J3ssica Alba wrote:
There was a point when Jita could handle 2450 I think or at least more than 2300 before it shut the gates, now after Odyssey its 2050. Why?
The all-time record in Jita is 2,400. Otherwise replied to here https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3171380#post3171380 and here https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3171428#post3171428

Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Senior Development Director | EVE Online // CCP Games | @CCP_Explorer
Mycool Jahksn
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#213 - 2013-06-11 19:37:16 UTC
I dont care if you increase the Jita pop cap to 3000. JUST DO IT.

It's a trade hub for gods sake, it's not PVP grounds.

If it takes 3 seconds to perform an action in Jita I'll take that any day over the fact that I never can get into Jita during primetime.

If you lock people out of Jita you're hindering the player driven world by forcing people to use other trade hubs against their will.

My interests include but are not limited to throwing rocks at bee hives.

There are more stars in the universe than all of the grains of sand on earth.
CCP Explorer
C C P
C C P Alliance
#214 - 2013-06-11 19:37:33 UTC
Maximus Andendare wrote:
CCP Explorer wrote:
There are X pilots causing load and Y spambots. The cap is at X+Y.
If you can identify the bots--the Y figure--and botting is not allowed under the EULA, why haven't you guys just banned the bots already? I get that scamming is part of the game (a profession?), but botting and spamming local using a bot is disallowed and ought to result in many juicy bans.
Replied to here https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3175100#post3175100

Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Senior Development Director | EVE Online // CCP Games | @CCP_Explorer
Makari Aeron
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#215 - 2013-06-11 19:39:28 UTC
Here's a novel idea that I'll get yelled at for saying: use a different trade hub.

CCP RedDawn: Ugly people are just playing life on HARD mode. Personally, I'm playing on an INFERNO difficulty.

CCP Goliath: I often believe that the best way to get something done is to shout at the person trying to help you. http://goo.gl/PKGDP
CCP Explorer
C C P
C C P Alliance
#216 - 2013-06-11 19:40:10 UTC
Socks the Fox wrote:
Obunagawe wrote:
Jita is apparently single-threaded and already running on a i7 with 5GHz and 64GB RAM. They'd have to work out some way to make it multi-threaded and that will never happen.
That's not true. There's no way that's true. Please don't let that be true.

CCP Explorer, is that really true?
A solarsystem is the smallest load balancing unit and is a single-threaded process. We are working on one project to offload a lot of the work to another process (see Brain in a Box in this thread) and have more ideas that we intend to look at a later date.

Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Senior Development Director | EVE Online // CCP Games | @CCP_Explorer
Maximus Andendare
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#217 - 2013-06-11 19:57:45 UTC
CCP Explorer wrote:
Maximus Andendare wrote:
CCP Explorer wrote:
There are X pilots causing load and Y spambots. The cap is at X+Y.
If you can identify the bots--the Y figure--and botting is not allowed under the EULA, why haven't you guys just banned the bots already? I get that scamming is part of the game (a profession?), but botting and spamming local using a bot is disallowed and ought to result in many juicy bans.
Replied to here https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3175100#post3175100
Which is it? Do you guys know who the spambots are or not? Here (quoted link from above), you say you don't know, but below you say that you know how many spambots you have. If you know how many spambots you have--meaning you can identify a spambot over a player--then where is the disconnect from identifying the actual spambots and banning them? "Ok, we know *this* is a player (causing load) and *this* is a bot." << Bingo! Ban the bot.

CCP Explorer wrote:
No, the load would stay the same (because it's traffic related) and we would lower the cap accordingly with the number of spambots that would have gone away.

There are X pilots causing load and Y spambots. The cap is at X+Y.


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Rhnra Pahineh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#218 - 2013-06-11 20:04:31 UTC
The issue of Jita isn't the number of players, but the virtually unlimited volume of goods allowed in the market. By putting a quota on the volume or introducing a new tax, starting a 0% and increasing with the volume if that last is bigger than a step. As said earlier in this thread: there are a lot of systems around jita that could be used to balance the load. But multi-threading is probably better, up to a point maybe?
Tanaka Aiko
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#219 - 2013-06-11 20:05:23 UTC
CCP Explorer wrote:
Logging in is an act of docking. Your character needs to be added to the solarsystem (in the station) and your skills and bonuses set up (e.g., skills that control what ships you can board and bonuses that control the size of your cargohold).

Do you really care about our skills and what ship we are in? After all you check that when we try to undock isn't it?
Haulie Berry
#220 - 2013-06-11 20:09:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Haulie Berry
Tanaka Aiko wrote:
CCP Explorer wrote:
Logging in is an act of docking. Your character needs to be added to the solarsystem (in the station) and your skills and bonuses set up (e.g., skills that control what ships you can board and bonuses that control the size of your cargohold).

Do you really care about our skills and what ship we are in? After all you check that when we try to undock isn't it?



Uh... yes? Obviously? Many skills still have an impact while docked (e.g., trade skills), and, as mentioned, many of your ship stats are still relevant while docked (fitting stats, cargohold, etc.).