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Situation in Haatomo

Author
Anslo
Scope Works
#61 - 2013-06-11 16:10:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Anslo
It doesn't work like that. We shoot them, they complain. They shoot us, we complain, etc. It doesn't work like that at ALL for anyone who has half a brain. Who the hell are you to say, as a member of the Federation, that someone doesn't have the RIGHT to complain about the destruction brought upon their own people from a war led by a madman holding a station hostage? Where the HELL do you think you have the authority to tell them what to do?

The CPD and TD are an issue, fine. But don't curse the whole of the State for the actions of the few.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#62 - 2013-06-11 16:14:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Fredfredbug4
Stitcher wrote:


And this may seem an alien concept, but merely being somebody's enemy is not an obstacle to respecting them, nor is it a reason to slaughter them. The Federation absolutely are the State's enemies - we're at war with them after all - but the relationship is a strange one, fuelled in some part by mutual respect.

We're only bitter enemies if we choose to be, and on this matter the Provists have chosen they wish to be myopic black-and-white thinkers who think that the only emotion to feel for an enemy is hatred. I'm proud of my people that most of us are able to have a more nuanced dynamic with them. We can be enemies without descending into murderous loathing.



We have so much respect for each other, yet we are willing to send millions to their graves in spite of it? The Caldari and the Gallente have both cooperated and enjoyed peace before, we can certainly do it again. Hell, were it not for this cooperation both our peoples may have become yet another race for the Amarr to subjugate under slavery.

Why, we were enjoying a century of peace (if an uneasy one) before Heth managed to ruin it all. We were even on the verge of signing a free trade agreement, the first since the outbreak of the Gallente-Caldari war.

If we have so much respect for each other, why not let something good come out of it? The first step would beridding our governments of the people who are willing to condemn billions to oblivion to support their own agenda. First on the list would clearly be Tibus Heth, though I will say, there are plenty in the Federation who are similar to that putrid man.

I'm not suggesting we reunite as one nation, I'm not even suggesting an alliance. It's just completely unnecessary to be shooting each other when at the end of the day, neither one of us have truly directly harmed the other.

It's completely ridiculous. I for one feel Caldari Prime should belong to the Caldari (it has their damn homeworld after all) but why fight over it? Why continue a squabble that few people alive can even remember? With the right people running the show (not Heth) I'm sure negotiations can take place.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!

Repentence Tyrathlion
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#63 - 2013-06-11 16:15:03 UTC
Good hunting, Verin, and to everyone trying to restore some sanity.

I've never been close enough to the State to have serious feelings about Heth beyond him being psychotic, but killing off Yanala was clear and final proof that he's a mad dog. It doesn't matter how anti-Federation you are, a paramilitary attempt to seize control of State assets out of no more tactical reason than blind hate is beyond redeemable.

It's not likely to happen, but I quietly hope that Heth's fate is to be led away, and forgotten. A quiet trial, without publicity or fuss, and then put somewhere he can never be relevant again. The best kind of end for such people.
Anslo
Scope Works
#64 - 2013-06-11 16:21:55 UTC
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
Why, we were enjoying a century of peace (if an uneasy one) before Heth managed to ruin it all. We were even on the verge of signing a free trade agreement, the first since the outbreak of the Gallente-Caldari war.

If we have so much respect for each other, why not let something good come out of it? The first step would beridding our governments of the people who are willing to condemn billions to oblivion to support their own agenda. First on the list would clearly be Tibus Heth, though I will say, there are plenty in the Federation who are similar to that putrid man.


Because we got a thing with cultural take over that led to this mess. Since we couldn't control the Caldari, we suggested to the Caldari how one should live with our goods and services and ...whatever the hell else we send. So I won't be surprised if the State wouldn't want an FTA.

That said, it'd be nice if the Fed and State could come to an accord of some form of industrial trade and scientific collaboration. I'd like to see a Fed/State summit occur where people can just..talk at a neutral location. Who knows, it might lead to a bonafide alliance in a century or two...maybe.

But still, that's the future. We're in the present. Let the State do their thing. You wanna help? Get your heap to Luminaire and take a nod from the Brutor Combat manual; stuff as much ammo as you can in your hold and nail as many guns to your ship as you can.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#65 - 2013-06-11 16:25:18 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Maybe when we first captured Caldari Prime was terrorism too?

Yes, absolutely. The State, its military comandeered by the Provists, broke about every international treaty the State ever signed with both the Federation and CONCORD when it entered sovereign Federal territory without Federal consent. Demanding terms under the threat of murder and genocide is absolutely terrorism, and any attempt to say otherwise is duplicitous.

Diana Kim wrote:
When we were defending CN Shiigeru against gallentean attack, was it terrorism too?

No, but ordering an Oblivion strike on the planet absolutely was.

Diana Kim wrote:
When we captured Intaki, and all other federal systems, was it terrorism?

Seizing control of planetary and interplanetary resources from the governments that rightfully own them and installing occupational regimes? That might not be terrorism, but it's certainly just as bad. Occupying and blockading the homeworld of a race? That's hypocricy, if nothing else.

Diana Kim wrote:
We are at WAR, and gallente are our enemies!
We must fight them to protect our homes, our relatives, our citizens and our corporations!

Your homes, your relatives, your citizens and your corporations are in danger because the State, under the coerced and illegitimate command of Tibus Heth, started a war. That the Federation is the thing threatening homes, relatives, citizens and corporations is not in dispute. But the reason they're threatening them? It's because of Heth's war.

Heth started a war on the basis of the belief that every citizen in the State desired war, but he didn't think to consult with any of those citizens - from the lowest factory worker to the highest admiral or CEO - before he plunged every single one of them into a war for survival against a strategically and numerically superior force. He wanted to claim all of the glory of victory but he didn't want to shoulder any of the consequences of failure.

He has failed.

You have failed.

And now you're paying for it.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#66 - 2013-06-11 16:35:55 UTC
Pilots, we're getting off subject. This is about Heth's failed attempt to start a proletarian revolution, and the CEP's decision to contain and hopefully arrest him.

Please, for the love of all that's good, let's not make this yet another tired rehashing of the disagreements between the Federation and the State. We've had centuries to go over that ground. We'll find nothing new there.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?

Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#67 - 2013-06-11 16:46:37 UTC
I think that Heth is himself more motivated by Gallentean hatred than by proletariat idealism, Miss Priano.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Svetlana Scarlet
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#68 - 2013-06-11 16:56:18 UTC
It seems incredibly imprudent for the Kaalakiota board to remain silent as their CEO is declared a terrorist by the CEP and appears to have finally lost the remaining sanity to he had. I can't imagine I'm the only one watching their stock value plummet like a rock and waiting to buy at bargain prices.

Considering that Home Guard troops are evidently involved in this standoff on the side of the the CEP, and I haven't heard of any objection from Kaalakiota's CEP delegation to these actions, their silence is rather perfunctory at this point. Perhaps they should just tell everyone what they already suspect and tell us who is actually in charge in Nonni.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#69 - 2013-06-11 16:58:26 UTC
Stitcher wrote:
The theft of naval assets by an unauthorized party - terrorism
The planned invasion of a foreign power in violation of the Yulai treaty - terrorism
The hijacking of a station's security systems - terrorism
Annexing several decks of said station and welding shut the doors - terrorism

Terrorism is just type of warfare targeted on terrifying enemy forces.
I consider this type of warfare cheap and not professional, because it won't work against professional military units, that are impervious to frightening and will continue operation regardless.

What you have listed are professionally conducted operations, that were targeted at achieving a directly set goal, that doesn't include frightening something or somebody.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Nicolas Merovech
Doomheim
#70 - 2013-06-11 17:00:14 UTC
Svetlana Scarlet wrote:
I am curious what demanded the Navy's involvement. Has there been any statement from the CEP as to why they felt they needed to intervene in this case?


They found their opportunity to bring stability to the State, it seems.

Dr. Nicolas A. Merovech, Ph. D, M.D.

Shintoko Akahoshi
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#71 - 2013-06-11 17:09:02 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Stitcher wrote:
The theft of naval assets by an unauthorized party - terrorism
The planned invasion of a foreign power in violation of the Yulai treaty - terrorism
The hijacking of a station's security systems - terrorism
Annexing several decks of said station and welding shut the doors - terrorism

Terrorism is just type of warfare targeted on terrifying enemy forces.
I consider this type of warfare cheap and not professional, because it won't work against professional military units, that are impervious to frightening and will continue operation regardless.

What you have listed are professionally conducted operations, that were targeted at achieving a directly set goal, that doesn't include frightening something or somebody.


I couldn't agree more. The label of "terrorism" is simply being applied here to produce a certain response among the population.

Looking at the way this discussion is going, applying this label was a success...

Bio and writing

(Nothing I say is indicative of corporate policy unless otherwise stated)

Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#72 - 2013-06-11 17:11:07 UTC
Lai Dai Research Spacelane Security wishes to take this opportunity to re-iterate and clarify its division of authority.

Lai Dai Research Spacelane Security (LDRSS) is a security subsidiary of Lai Dai Research Biomedical and Cybernetic (LDRBC), which is a full member of the Lai Dai Corporation Group. Lai Dai Corporation is a major shareholder of the Caldari Executive Panel and as such, requires all subsidiaries and holdings to comply with the dictates of the CEP and any authority vested with the power of same.

As such: The executive board of LDRSS, in communication with LDRBC directorship, has requested the LDRSS Executor, Pilot Scherezad, to comply with the CEP and Caldari Navy in all circumstances. Further, it has clarified that the recent CEP statement has indicated a vote of no-confidence in Executor Tibus Heth. This is not the same as a removal of powers vested in Executor Tibus Heth, however.

LDRSS will follow all direction of the Caldari Navy, CEP, and authority figures within LDPS. Further, LDRSS will afford all reasonable respect to the office of the Executor and the person who holds same. In the case of conflict between these two directives, LDRSS is directed to side with the will of the CEP and Lai Dai Corporation.

Executor Scherezad
Lai Dai Kektimi Taashetiiro Tsusuvione - Lai Dai Research Spacelane Security
Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Doomheim
#73 - 2013-06-11 17:13:19 UTC
Svetlana Scarlet wrote:
It seems incredibly imprudent for the Kaalakiota board to remain silent as their CEO is declared a terrorist by the CEP and appears to have finally lost the remaining sanity to he had. I can't imagine I'm the only one watching their stock value plummet like a rock and waiting to buy at bargain prices.

Considering that Home Guard troops are evidently involved in this standoff on the side of the the CEP, and I haven't heard of any objection from Kaalakiota's CEP delegation to these actions, their silence is rather perfunctory at this point. Perhaps they should just tell everyone what they already suspect and tell us who is actually in charge in Nonni.


Hard for the Kaalakiota Board to object to anything when most of them are probably Provists appointed by the Executor himself.

Kurilaivonen|Concern

Ston Momaki
Disciples of Ston
#74 - 2013-06-11 17:14:56 UTC
DSTON is deploying the DSS Safe Harbor to Haatomo be available for rescue operations if needed. We hope there will be no violence and calm and restrained tempers will rule the situation.

The Disciples of Ston bid you peace

Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#75 - 2013-06-11 17:16:11 UTC
Stitcher wrote:
I think that Heth is himself more motivated by Gallentean hatred than by proletariat idealism, Miss Priano.


Agreed. I dare say that we've had this conversation before, in fact.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?

Svetlana Scarlet
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#76 - 2013-06-11 17:17:25 UTC
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:
Hard for the Kaalakiota Board to object to anything when most of them are probably Provists appointed by the Executor himself.

Corporate boards are appointed by the shareholders, not the CEO. I do not think most of the Kaalakiota board was ever made up of Provists, which made their decisions even more baffling. As far as I am aware, Tibus Heth is not a majority shareholder in KK either, only in Caldari Constructions (and no doubt there are a great many lawyers looking for any reason to end that particular issue at this moment).

It is clear already that Tibus Heth is no longer in charge of Kaalakiota, considering the corporation's actions over the last few days. The question is then...who is in charge?
Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Doomheim
#77 - 2013-06-11 17:29:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Svetlana Scarlet wrote:

Corporate boards are appointed by the shareholders, not the CEO. I do not think most of the Kaalakiota board was ever made up of Provists, which made their decisions even more baffling. As far as I am aware, Tibus Heth is not a majority shareholder in KK either, only in Caldari Constructions (and no doubt there are a great many lawyers looking for any reason to end that particular issue at this moment).

It is clear already that Tibus Heth is no longer in charge of Kaalakiota, considering the corporation's actions over the last few days. The question is then...who is in charge?


Of course they are and Heth-haan owns a significant stake in Kaalakiota interests and this might be presumption on my part, but the whole affair in New Caldari a few months back in addition to the, "Investigations" into, "Executives involved" in the, "Illegal massacre" of Kaalakiota employees would have probably changed management structures.

As for who is charge right now of Kaalakiota and more importantly, the Home Guard? I honestly have no idea, but I do hope that Ms. Haatakan Oiritsuu will be re-appointed to lead Kaalakiota back on the course it requires in the interim.

Present circumstances certainly makes discerning where my own contractual obligations must lie difficult without Oiritsuu-haani.

Kurilaivonen|Concern

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#78 - 2013-06-11 17:32:34 UTC
Svetlana Scarlet wrote:
It seems incredibly imprudent for the Kaalakiota board to remain silent as their CEO is declared a terrorist by the CEP and appears to have finally lost the remaining sanity to he had. I can't imagine I'm the only one watching their stock value plummet like a rock and waiting to buy at bargain prices.

Considering that Home Guard troops are evidently involved in this standoff on the side of the the CEP, and I haven't heard of any objection from Kaalakiota's CEP delegation to these actions, their silence is rather perfunctory at this point. Perhaps they should just tell everyone what they already suspect and tell us who is actually in charge in Nonni.


DECLARED TERRORIST?

AND WHAT?

Really. And what?
You can declare ME terrorist, if you want. WHAT IT WILL CHANGE? Really?
That I will try to terrorize your crew? Possible. But not likely, because I prefer more professional approach.
I would simply destroy them - no terrorism needed.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#79 - 2013-06-11 17:35:42 UTC
Shintoko Akahoshi wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
Stitcher wrote:
The theft of naval assets by an unauthorized party - terrorism
The planned invasion of a foreign power in violation of the Yulai treaty - terrorism
The hijacking of a station's security systems - terrorism
Annexing several decks of said station and welding shut the doors - terrorism

Terrorism is just type of warfare targeted on terrifying enemy forces.
I consider this type of warfare cheap and not professional, because it won't work against professional military units, that are impervious to frightening and will continue operation regardless.

What you have listed are professionally conducted operations, that were targeted at achieving a directly set goal, that doesn't include frightening something or somebody.


I couldn't agree more. The label of "terrorism" is simply being applied here to produce a certain response among the population.

Looking at the way this discussion is going, applying this label was a success...

I must add, that only among STUPID population.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#80 - 2013-06-11 17:44:02 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
DECLARED TERRORIST?

AND WHAT?

Really. And what?
You can declare ME terrorist, if you want. WHAT IT WILL CHANGE? Really?
That I will try to terrorize your crew? Possible. But not likely, because I prefer more professional approach.
I would simply destroy them - no terrorism needed.

By all means, continue to make threats of violence towards Pyre-Falcon.

However it turns out, it's sure to be entertaining.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.