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"ICE" is gone!!! for the Mom and POP..... Walmart has taken over!

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GreenSeed
#41 - 2013-06-11 03:20:25 UTC
Robert Saint wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Ice prices are down over the last week.


i noticed that and was trying to figure that one out.

I suppose it's just an adjustment to an over inflated price.

Anyone care to speculate.



ice prices at current levels are just people bots selling their stock from before the changes. seeing as most systems with 200 24/7 ice miners are down to less than 50 supply has been cut in half, even with lasers cycling at 2x speed.

just do some simple math, before changes any given belt would have at least 80 macks mining at any given moment, with the rest flying back and forth. that's 5.6k ice cubes per hour. at current rates if every icebelt gets mined in one second, and the 4hr timer immediately starts, the maximum a highsec system can generate averages to 625 cubes/h Shocked

protip: buy isotopes now, sell them at 2k+ isk in 3 months. Blink

also, keep this in mind, out of the 8 systems i usually scout for fleets, half either remain alive far past the point they should, because they are being mined by only 10 - 15 miners with no or crappy boosts. or they are being mined in less than 10 minutes by some dude with 20 covs.

the two options are terrible for ice prices.

since ice respawns 4 hours from the moment the last roid gets mined out, the longer that takes the lower supply gets generated. having a belt stay alive more than 20 - 25 minutes means that highsec is actually generating less than "80% of all ice consumed".

in the other hand, having one guy mine it all up is also unhealthy for the market, since he wont sell his supply unless he needs to plex, any excess wont be sold until ice reaches his desired price point. what you end up is a naturally occurring cartel, because the extractors don't want to sell, once they PLEXEd for the month, moment that now happens in only 17hrs, thanks to the new ice cycle time.

(17hrs is the mining time any multi account miner has to mine per month, regardless of how many accounts he has, to pay for all accounts. 10 accounts take the same time to plex as 500)
MadMuppet
Critical Mass Inc
#42 - 2013-06-11 03:25:06 UTC
The new ice mechanic sucks (for me), so I no longer bother even trying to mine ice. I've sold all my ice mining equipment, put what stocks of ice I had on the market at stupidly high prices, and go on with the game. I don't agree with something becoming a four hour waiting game, I'll go explore or something instead.

Then again, in the 'big picture' it does make a certain amount of sense for the game as well. My biggest concern is that the very mechanic actually will encourage automation by players so that they will not spend hours waiting for ice to happen. I am not talking about a bot that will actually do the mining, but a monitoring application so that players will not spend hours bouncing back to the couple nearby systems to find the ice.

If I were to change it, I would put ice as a 'limited random' instance in any system, but actually require players to scan it down rather than just making it a 'free green dot' on the system. Oh well, they made their call and I'll live with it for now.

This message brought to you by Experience(tm). When common sense fails you, experience will come to the rescue. Experience(tm) from the makers of CONCORD.

"If you are part of the problem, you will be nerfed." -MadMuppet
Digital Messiah
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2013-06-11 03:26:24 UTC
Robert Saint wrote:
Elizabeth Aideron wrote:
so dont mine ice 24/7



That's like saying, don't RUN MISSIONS when you want to.

If mission agents handed out missions every 4 hours, that wouldn't work either.


In fact that's a GREAT idea..... have ICE in mission spawns like they have ORE......

Someone hasn't ever declined a mission or been offered 6 empire faction missions in a row

Something clever
Solutio Letum
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#44 - 2013-06-11 03:30:58 UTC
Oh noes another thread... where is ccp to lock them D:!!!
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#45 - 2013-06-11 05:57:13 UTC
While the hisec folks are complaining, the nullsec and lowsec folks are making bank. Halving the cycle time means it is now actually possible to harvest ice in "dangerous" space. It would not surprise me at all to see that hisec is only producing 60% of current supply. I have been in hisec ice fields that lasted two or three hours, but the price of ice continues to fall. Pilots are simply not bothering to harvest the limited ice that is available.

The small operators are having a good time. There is no room for "Walmart scale" operations anymore.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#46 - 2013-06-11 06:12:22 UTC
Robert Saint wrote:
Speaking from someone who has been playing EVE a little too much lately, please review this post with the understanding that not everyone plays full time.

"ICE is failing with the new setup because it doesn't allow a player to select ICE mining as a profession"

If a person plays only an hour or so a day, they can't select ICE as a profession period and expect to grow in the trade, due to the limited supply and spawn times. I had a bunch of miners that I was milking the system with before the update and YES, it was gravy ISK. So, after the patch I bailed on the big league production and just thought to have a miner or two mine every once in a while, but there just isn't enough ICE to make it a profession, when you are competing with the big league boys. I went out to the spawns only to find them filled with ORCA fleets ripping them up in less then 30 minutes per spawn.

This post isn't to complain for me, as I have already moved on - out of ICE.

It's for EVE in general and the casual players, those interested in getting into ICE as a profession in a Mom and Pop sort of way. It's just not there any more unless the player is willing to change his playing time, which seems pretty "ridiculous" seeing it's not a real job.....please!


DO THIS TO FIX ICE.

Just change the cycle time to 2 times longer than it was (not shorter as you did). Cutting it in half was a mistake! If it takes twice as long as it use to harvest, then the ICE will remain in space longer and allow more players to mine during what ever time they log in. The price will adjust to the new variable. Just make sure that the same allocation of ICE per day is limited, and adjust the spawn times dynamically, not every 4 hours per spawn.

To be fair, a player should be able to log in whatever time they can play this game and have a feature available to them to check out or dive in to. It seems only the FULL TIMERS would not agree!

Peace

Not everybody can be an astronaut.
Not everybody can be a Ice-Miner.

Are Ice-Miners astronauts??

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP
St Mio
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#47 - 2013-06-11 06:18:12 UTC
Tippia wrote:
People keep talking about this new Intrusion Countermeasure Electronics that have been added to the game, but I just can't seem to find any. I mean, even the new exploration minigame calls it plain old “virus”, which is a different thing…

Three pages and no one got this reference? You should all be banned from the forums until you've finished reading Neuromancer.
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2013-06-11 07:11:51 UTC
why do people capitalize "ICE" and "ORE"? is this an abbreviation of something?

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#49 - 2013-06-11 07:59:35 UTC
Grimpak wrote:
why do people capitalize "ICE" and "ORE"? is this an abbreviation of something?

Yes. It stands for In-car entertainment and Outer-Ring Excavations, respectively.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#50 - 2013-06-11 08:03:50 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Grimpak wrote:
why do people capitalize "ICE" and "ORE"? is this an abbreviation of something?

Yes. It stands for In-car entertainment and Outer-Ring Excavations, respectively.


If you fly Emirates, ICE is "Information, Communication and Entertainment." That is the fancy name for their inflight entertainment system which also allows you to send SMS anywhere in the world for $3/message. They have a generous selection of movies and TV series though.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#51 - 2013-06-11 08:05:38 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Grimpak wrote:
why do people capitalize "ICE" and "ORE"? is this an abbreviation of something?

Yes. It stands for In-car entertainment and Outer-Ring Excavations, respectively.


Or for those of us old enough to remember when 'cyberpunk' was new and exciting, Intrusion Countermeasure Electronics.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#52 - 2013-06-11 08:41:14 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Grimpak wrote:
why do people capitalize "ICE" and "ORE"? is this an abbreviation of something?

Yes. It stands for In-car entertainment and Outer-Ring Excavations, respectively.

Or for those of us old enough to remember when 'cyberpunk' was new and exciting, Intrusion Countermeasure Electronics.

Yes, but that was back on page 1. I try to change to something new in every post. P
Liltha
Lost My Way Enterprises
#53 - 2013-06-11 09:49:49 UTC
Damn now I either have to go read Neuromancer again or play System Shock 2.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#54 - 2013-06-11 10:07:27 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Ice prices are down over the last week.


Of course, as usual all the bads who kept untold zillions of ice for "patch speculation" are panic dumping now.

Price will still drop, as it's easy to see how a double top has formed and double tops are evil things for those caught with stock in their hands.

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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#55 - 2013-06-11 10:10:54 UTC
Aidan Brooder wrote:

And never should be a full-time profession anyway.


It'd be fun if your RL employer told you that too.

Let me list how many other EvE professions cannot be done full time:














Done.

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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#56 - 2013-06-11 10:15:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Digital Messiah wrote:
Robert Saint wrote:
Elizabeth Aideron wrote:
so dont mine ice 24/7



That's like saying, don't RUN MISSIONS when you want to.

If mission agents handed out missions every 4 hours, that wouldn't work either.


In fact that's a GREAT idea..... have ICE in mission spawns like they have ORE......

Someone hasn't ever declined a mission or been offered 6 empire faction missions in a row


Maybe that someone knows that you can do a lot to circumvent those very rare occurrences.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#57 - 2013-06-11 10:18:21 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
While the hisec folks are complaining, the nullsec and lowsec folks are making bank. Halving the cycle time means it is now actually possible to harvest ice in "dangerous" space. It would not surprise me at all to see that hisec is only producing 60% of current supply.


That was the plan to begin with. Another hi sec to null sec wealth shift, to be seen in the long term "boiling the hi sec frogs" CCP strategy.

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Kult Altol
The Safe Space
#58 - 2013-06-11 10:31:47 UTC
Could they half stripper times please too hehe

[u]Can't wait untill when Eve online is Freemium.[/u] WiS only 10$, SP booster for one month 15$, DPS Boost 2$, EHP Boost 2$ Real money trading hub! Cosmeitic ship skins 15$ --> If you don't [u]pay **[/u]for a product, you ARE the [u]**product[/u].

Claude Maximillian Dibbler
Eidolon Reticulum
#59 - 2013-06-11 11:13:43 UTC
Join a corp in 0.0, where there is still to much ice.
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#60 - 2013-06-11 11:16:04 UTC
Robert Saint wrote:
I think the real issue is AFK or Relaxed game play. A Style of play that you can do in the background while doing something else.


That isn't "casual" play. More likely you want to pewpewpew, meanwhile pay for it with ice mining as it offered enough ISK to pay for it (let alone pay for the account via PLEXing).

Ice mining took a long time to do, and wasn't something for the true casual to do. Missioning is something someone can do in an hour or two a night.

Casual play is logging on for a couple of hours; or doing nothing else but some quick run; or not doing the harder stuff...as there isn't time or interest.

True casuals can manufacture; check on their moon goo; research or mission. All are profitable if you train for it.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell