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NSA Backdoor into US service providers.

Author
Metal Icarus
Star Frontiers
Brotherhood of Spacers
#61 - 2013-06-10 14:33:24 UTC
You're a suspect

AND You're a suspect

EVERYONE'S A SUSPECT!!!!

'merika, land of the free*

*void where prohibited**

**Prohibited in the United States of America
Kult Altol
The Safe Space
#62 - 2013-06-10 19:43:54 UTC
Your free not to use the Internet.




















Lol

[u]Can't wait untill when Eve online is Freemium.[/u] WiS only 10$, SP booster for one month 15$, DPS Boost 2$, EHP Boost 2$ Real money trading hub! Cosmeitic ship skins 15$ --> If you don't [u]pay **[/u]for a product, you ARE the [u]**product[/u].

Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#63 - 2013-06-10 22:41:31 UTC
jason hill wrote:

Canada and new zealand


Please forgive me. I didn't mean to leave out these important Anglosphere nations, especially as one day I'd like to live in one of them Bear.
Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#64 - 2013-06-10 22:45:19 UTC
Jada Maroo wrote:
People need to watch the full interview with Edward Snowden here.

This guy is not a crazy. Or a partisan. He's not some bitter traitor like Bradley Manning. He warns about exactly the concern I had earlier in the thread.


If I were him, I would have retained my honour, not betrayed my country, left my job to satisfy my sense of morality and lobbied for changes to law without giving the entire game away. Like Assange, this guy is just an attention seeker who wants everyone to know he's some kind of a big shot.

The most surprising thing that comes from this is the inadequacy of the NSA's psychological profiling of the people it employs.
Hrothgar Nilsson
#65 - 2013-06-10 22:50:01 UTC
This guy had access to an absolutely enormous amount of material. If he wanted to do a Bradley Manning, he could have done it by one or two orders of magnitude.
Kirjava
Lothian Enterprises
#66 - 2013-06-10 22:53:27 UTC
Victoria Sin wrote:
Jada Maroo wrote:
People need to watch the full interview with Edward Snowden here.

This guy is not a crazy. Or a partisan. He's not some bitter traitor like Bradley Manning. He warns about exactly the concern I had earlier in the thread.


If I were him, I would have retained my honour, not betrayed my country, left my job to satisfy my sense of morality and lobbied for changes to law without giving the entire game away. Like Assange, this guy is just an attention seeker who wants everyone to know he's some kind of a big shot.

The most surprising thing that comes from this is the inadequacy of the NSA's psychological profiling of the people it employs.

Part of the problem is it all being done behind closed doors, if you have secrets within secrets like this it gets problematic. As I understand it the Executive branch has told the Legislature about a top secret program which they then sign off on, authorised by a closed session of a secret Judicial which then interprets the top secret Legislature in a legal, though quite different manner for the Executive.

Thats the problem, going down the rabbit hole on which secrets people think they know, but just being manipulated into being secretive.

Frankly I could care less what the US does to spy on its own citizens, I'm concerned about actions that may be being done in the UK with GCHQ's involvement.

I am not ordinarily one to be politically proactive or a conspiracy theorist, but the existence of such a program is worrying as it now stands, how deep does the rabbit hole go? Wrapping my head around the data so far it doesn't seem as bad as was first indicated, but still somewhat unsettling.

[center]Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. /人◕‿‿◕人\ Unban Saede![/center]

Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#67 - 2013-06-10 22:54:00 UTC
Hrothgar Nilsson wrote:
This guy had access to an absolutely enormous amount of material. If he wanted to do a Bradley Manning, he could have done it by one or two orders of magnitude.


That doesn't mean he isn't a douche.
Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#68 - 2013-06-10 23:02:25 UTC
Kirjava wrote:

I am not ordinarily one to be politically proactive or a conspiracy theorist, but the existence of such a program is worrying as it now stands, how deep does the rabbit hole go? Wrapping my head around the data so far it doesn't seem as bad as was first indicated, but still somewhat unsettling.


Watch Haigh's statement to the commons today (on iPlayer, BBC Parliament). He makes it crystal clear what's going on.
Malaclypse Muscaria
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#69 - 2013-06-11 00:06:40 UTC
Kirjava wrote:
Frankly I could care less what the US does to spy on its own citizens, I'm concerned about actions that may be being done in the UK with GCHQ's involvement.

I am not ordinarily one to be politically proactive or a conspiracy theorist, but the existence of such a program is worrying as it now stands, how deep does the rabbit hole go? Wrapping my head around the data so far it doesn't seem as bad as was first indicated, but still somewhat unsettling.


US intelligence services do have a far more colorful history of being naughty and paranoid than their European counterparts, and in general European companies and politicians have kept a stronger stance on protecting and respecting the privacy of their citizens than across the pond... but regardless of cultural and legal differences, it all comes down to us flawed humans, no matter where we come from.

About a decade ago, I used to work for an Internet European multinational: regardless of all the stringent European laws protecting the private data of our users, and regardless of all the privacy legal statements decorating our website, one day when the company was going through a rough financial situation, one of the top managers personally came down to the engineering department and asked us point-blank to provide him with a full database dump of our users' private data, in an easy to use format, so he could sell it off to spammers or whatevers.

Every day, bad decisions are taken, no matter if it's on a school yard, a corporate office, or a government, no matter the country, the culture, or the political affiliation. It's all the same, it's just the wrapping and the magnitude of the consequences that varies: we are only flawed humans, and we never left behind the school-yard dynamics.




As an aside, and speaking of conspiracies, an interesting aspect I find in all these hoopla, is how it illustrates how those worldwide all-encompassing conspiracies the Alex Jones cultists are so in love with, could never work: here we have, the NSA / CIA themselves, entrusting access to their "super-secret" government spying program to some high school dropout working for some external contractor, with a personal record of giving money to the campaign of none other than Mr. I-Hate-Big-Federal-Government Ron Paul...

Alex Jones & co keep forgetting that, on one hand human stupidity is boundless. And on the other hand, that in order to be able to pull off the sort of vast conspiracies bent on decimating the human race they keeping spouting about, it would require the countless humans involved, all around the world, never making a mistake, never letting their tongues loose on the wrong sort of ears, never having qualms or second-thoughts on this whole let's-enslave-and-decimate-the-human-race business.
Jada Maroo
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#70 - 2013-06-11 02:11:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Jada Maroo
Victoria Sin wrote:

If I were him, I would have retained my honour, not betrayed my country, left my job to satisfy my sense of morality and lobbied for changes to law without giving the entire game away.


I know full well the reason he left the country and didn't bother speaking to Congress.

What's going to happen to the Congressman he contacts? They're going to get a phone call from the NSA letting them know they have the receipt of the Thai ladyboy locked away in their basement.

Next thing you know, Snowden is sold out, scooped up, and disappeared.
Rain6638
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#71 - 2013-06-11 05:59:44 UTC
he keeps referring to the rest of his life as if it's a definite time frame

also, according to this article he wants to work for CCP

[ 2013.06.21 09:52:05 ] (notify) For initiating combat your security status has been adjusted by -0.1337

Aragoni
Black Talon Command
#72 - 2013-06-11 07:23:34 UTC
Victoria Sin wrote:
Hrothgar Nilsson wrote:
This guy had access to an absolutely enormous amount of material. If he wanted to do a Bradley Manning, he could have done it by one or two orders of magnitude.


That doesn't mean he isn't a douche.


What makes him a douche really? You referred to him earlier as a "betrayer", but I have still to understand your logic. How can a person that warns the people about their government going outside the boundries be a betrayer? This guy is a hero that has more balls than Duke Nuke'em, and the people from all around the world (well except maybe North Koreans as they have no information to share to begin with) should treat him as such.
jason hill
Red vs Blue Flight Academy
#73 - 2013-06-11 08:02:49 UTC
well if everybody is so paranoid about the NSA monitoring you internet habits then This may be the software for you
Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#74 - 2013-06-11 08:07:58 UTC
Jada Maroo wrote:

What's going to happen to the Congressman he contacts? They're going to get a phone call from the NSA letting them know they have the receipt of the Thai ladyboy locked away in their basement.


What nonsense.
Hrothgar Nilsson
#75 - 2013-06-11 08:25:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Hrothgar Nilsson
The fact is given what his position was and what he knows, sending a letter to a congressman or lobbying would have placed him in a very bad situation.

Besides, before the specifics of what he revealed there were already tons of people writing, protesting, and lobbying against stuff just like the things he delivered hard proof on. The difference being those people didn't have proof or direct knowledge. Which is a 'your word against mine (the govt)' when the former knows nothing concrete.

Was he supposed to be extremely vague in his letters and lobbying? Vaguer than the know-nothings? Because saying the same thing as the people who had no proof or direct knowledge places him in the same situation he's in now, as an ex-CIA employee, ex-NSA contractor with direct knowledge.

In other words, he doesn't become a target of investigation, lose his job, career potential, get blacklisted, charged, arrested etc. because he's said anything different than what many others have said thousands of times, but because he said it while happening to know certain specific facts.

Right or wrong, him going about it the way he did was likely the only practical method that would have been effective.
Xpaulusx
Naari LLC
#76 - 2013-06-11 11:17:16 UTC
* Waits for Skynet in Utah to become self aware Ugh

......................................................

Kirjava
Lothian Enterprises
#77 - 2013-06-11 12:10:46 UTC
Heard Russia is now considering offering him political asylum should he request it. Its somewhat ironic to see the positions turned, with the US the paranoid surveillance state and Russia offering asylum in a political game. What are the odds of him being pardoned at the end of Obamas term or as part of a Republican manifesto?

[center]Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. /人◕‿‿◕人\ Unban Saede![/center]

Othran
Route One
#78 - 2013-06-11 12:25:46 UTC
jason hill wrote:
theres nothing new in this ...its been going on for ages I should know I worked for a company that was involved in doing it .
linky for those that don't believe .racal instruments


LOL you worked for Racal? Snap, although I left nearly 20 years ago. What a company that was once, Vodafone, Chubb, Decca etc. £100 invested in Racal in 1960 was worth £1.1m in 1990. Not a bad RoI mmm? Pirate
Zhula Guixgrixks
Increasing Success by Lowering Expectations
#79 - 2013-06-11 13:02:02 UTC
The appetite for power and control is bottomless. The more you give the more they want.
If the only foundation of "checks & balances" is to blindly trust them , it's not working anymore.

Lot of people in Europe still remember what is it to live in a dictatorship. So they are more sensitive to governmental lies.
And they lie a lot, everywhere.
I guess US has to make its own experience with it. The winter is coming ... ;-)

0ccupational Hazzard --> check out the true love story 

Kirjava
Lothian Enterprises
#80 - 2013-06-11 13:10:41 UTC
The anger is growing in the political circles this side of the Atlantic, Angela Merkel is from East Germany and we can expect her to take a certain perspective to this. The Italians are pretty angry too, and the G8 is being hosted in the UK this week.

I think they're going to grill the American delegates hard for an explanation as to why they are spying on Europeans, we had enough of that during the Cold War from the Soviets without worrying about America.

[center]Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. /人◕‿‿◕人\ Unban Saede![/center]