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Ice belts res-pawn every 4 hours? I wonder what CCP is trying to do.
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El 1974
Green Visstick High
#21 - 2013-06-08 06:44:37 UTC
Jason Xado wrote:
A skilled Retriever pilot with an orca boost can churn out 128 block an hour. The cheapest ice in null sec out there is currently selling at 270,000 ISK a block. That is 34,560,000 ISK per hour.

...

Sure I would love to be abe to exclusively mine Dark Glitter as I did before the patch. Dark Glitter is currently selling for 670,000 per block which would make the maxed our Hulk pilot from above 113,900,000 ISK per hour. That would be great, but I don't think that was the devs intention. I just want to make sure we are using real numbers here.

I'm going to test out the whole respawning at downtime thing this weekend because I am hearing a lot of different statements about it.

I think he's looking at the local price in his nullsec region. In most nullsec space many ice products will be worth less than they are worth in Jita. Rorquals cannot keep up with ice miners to compress ice, so you can't really look at Jita prices. If you get 670k for a block of uncompressed Dark Glitter then I'd advice you to sell your stock quickly.
Tinu Moorhsum
Random Events
#22 - 2013-06-08 13:13:10 UTC
Ireland VonVicious wrote:
I think this shows that 4 hrs is just too big of a gap.

Idea


Not at all. what it's showing is that there is an over capacity of ice miners in high sec.
Jason Xado
Doomheim
#23 - 2013-06-09 00:23:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Jason Xado
El 1974 wrote:

I think he's looking at the local price in his nullsec region. In most nullsec space many ice products will be worth less than they are worth in Jita. Rorquals cannot keep up with ice miners to compress ice, so you can't really look at Jita prices. If you get 670k for a block of uncompressed Dark Glitter then I'd advice you to sell your stock quickly.


Hmmmm. I guess I assumed most null sec ice miners had a [redacted by Xado Corporate Security] to Jita. I do appologize.

As far as compression goes, I was worried about it when I heard of the expansion. However now that I am no longer mining exlusively Dark Glitter and I am mostly mining racial ice the compression isn't really a big issue as racial ice does not need to be compressed. My compression lines only have to keep up with the higher end ice, which is a much smaller portion of the whole after the expansion.

Anyway, not sure I would sell my ice for less than Jita market value, but to each his own :-)
Kardek Stormlord
The Fallen Legion
#24 - 2013-06-09 00:52:45 UTC
Looks like the bots were all patched in the last 24-36 hrs.

I was pretty amazed at how many miners dropped off but bang the waves of solo retrievers are back lol
Dave Stark
#25 - 2013-06-09 07:56:47 UTC
of course the bots were fixed instantly. any one who thought warping to something on the scanner menu rather than a bookmark would break all the bots was deluded. "oh noes, we have to open a different menu to warp to an ice belt, bots will never be able to do that"
Artemis Ellery Sazas
Shock and Awe Inc.
#26 - 2013-06-09 11:28:21 UTC
If they were trying to remove botting and 50 ship mining fleets, epic fail. All they really managed to accomplish is to hurt the small, casual ice mining corp. Botting is back from what I am seeing. They will now mine a bigger percentage of available ice and sell it for higher profits as the ice price rises. Win win for botters!

For me personally I could really care less about ice mining. However I did do a little afk ice mining while watching a ballgame or something, but now I just log off.

Instead of teasing high sec miners with 30 minutes ice belts, I think they should have moved all the ice to low & null like was planned. They could also ban the use of multibox programs and stop the 50 ship mining fleets. Why not offer a reward to increase reporting suspected botters? For every confirmed botter, maybe CCP could pay out 100, 200, 500 million isk? Offering rewards, along with CCP fighting botting programs may be a better alternative. The best anti-botting tool CCP has is other players, so empower them to help you fight illegal activities. If a program like that already exists, I'm sorry I've never heard about it. I believe there were better ways to change ice mining and have a better system than is currently running.

I think the idea was to screw afk playing, mostly mining. However, can someone tell me the difference between afk mining and afk freighter flying. After all afk is afk. I would suggest on the next expansion CCP remove the autopilot button, since I bet there are many more player flying afk around Eve than mining afk.
Dave Stark
#27 - 2013-06-09 11:41:13 UTC
Artemis Ellery Sazas wrote:
Win win for botters!


botters don't win anything. the fact that instead of 23/7 mining they've now got like what, 4 hours worth of ice available to them every day means they're facing reduced profits too.
Artemis Ellery Sazas
Shock and Awe Inc.
#28 - 2013-06-09 13:01:21 UTC
I disagree slightly. Before a filled ore bay on a retriever would be 28 icicles with a belt of unlimited supply, at least where I am, so they were mining a very small % of total ice available. Now, if they are able to get to a site on re-spawn and mine the same 28 icicles, it's a much greater % of available ice. I believe the new sites have 2500 icicles? Ice mining will be divided between a much smaller pool of miners and depending on how they want to play the game, I can easily see a serious supply problem coming 6 months from now. You are right, the botters profits will suffer like the rest of the ice miners, but if they play the game right and stockpile they will win over time compared to normal, active miners because of the limited supply in the new ice belts.
Dave Stark
#29 - 2013-06-09 13:08:39 UTC
what? nothing in that situation favours botters at all.
Felicity Love
Doomheim
#30 - 2013-06-09 13:14:05 UTC
Ireland VonVicious wrote:
I think this shows that 4 hrs is just too big of a gap.

I'd like to see it cut down to every 2 hrs and just cut the amount that spawns in half.

This would really work against those big groups more. Idea


No, it wouldn't, because those big groups would show up anyway and strip the ice away in even less time than they already do.

Onoes, pilots need to think outside the box on this one. Idea

"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )
Jason Xado
Doomheim
#31 - 2013-06-09 14:46:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Jason Xado
Artemis Ellery Sazas wrote:
If they were trying to remove botting and 50 ship mining fleets, epic fail. All they really managed to accomplish is to hurt the small, casual ice mining corp. Botting is back from what I am seeing. They will now mine a bigger percentage of available ice and sell it for higher profits as the ice price rises. Win win for botters!

For me personally I could really care less about ice mining. However I did do a little afk ice mining while watching a ballgame or something, but now I just log off.

Instead of teasing high sec miners with 30 minutes ice belts, I think they should have moved all the ice to low & null like was planned. They could also ban the use of multibox programs and stop the 50 ship mining fleets. Why not offer a reward to increase reporting suspected botters? For every confirmed botter, maybe CCP could pay out 100, 200, 500 million isk? Offering rewards, along with CCP fighting botting programs may be a better alternative. The best anti-botting tool CCP has is other players, so empower them to help you fight illegal activities. If a program like that already exists, I'm sorry I've never heard about it. I believe there were better ways to change ice mining and have a better system than is currently running.

I think the idea was to screw afk playing, mostly mining. However, can someone tell me the difference between afk mining and afk freighter flying. After all afk is afk. I would suggest on the next expansion CCP remove the autopilot button, since I bet there are many more player flying afk around Eve than mining afk.


1.) Multiboxing is valid gameplay. It allows a level playing field for smaller groups (or solo players) to compete with larger groups.
2.) Please do not confuse botting with multiboxing, they are not the same thing.

Thank you for your cooperation, it is much appreciated.
Moonlit Raid
Doomheim
#32 - 2013-06-09 17:23:21 UTC
I think they've done well actually with what they've done. cranking out 50 ships for 5 minutes of mining isn't really worth it any more. I never really liked that ice belts didn't run out.

If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.

Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.
Dave Stark
#33 - 2013-06-09 17:27:51 UTC
Moonlit Raid wrote:
I think they've done well actually with what they've done. cranking out 50 ships for 5 minutes of mining isn't really worth it any more. I never really liked that ice belts didn't run out.


your average high sec ice site is still worth over half a billion isk per spawn. if you can mine all of it in 5 mins then that's worth the time, for sure.
Morgan Knight
Halcyon Knights Incorporated
#34 - 2013-06-10 17:42:36 UTC
Lyra Jedran wrote:
I don’t see what all the fuss is about. My mining fleet mines in a system that takes 2 and a half hours to chew the ice anomaly. There is another system with an ice belt three jumps away that takes even longer to finish off their ice anomaly. If I felt like it I could mine ice all day long going back and forth. As always in Eve the rich get richer as they can afford to plan ahead and bankroll larger mining fleets.Hooray for progress.


Your experience is clearly not the norm though. I mine in a very out of the way system with no station, the ice belt there lasts about 1-2 hours depending on the time of day, as I recall the nearest alternative belt is 8 jumps away in a very busy system. I’m all for stopping the botting but a 4 hour respawn is painful. Even if you do see the previous spawn get totally mined out, it then requires you to either plan your day around getting on EVE at a set time, not mine ice or rely on luck. As other have said, two hours would be much nicer.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#35 - 2013-06-10 23:51:28 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
what? nothing in that situation favours botters at all.

Actually it does. A bot can sit patently doing nothing for four hours, then the second a spawn shows log in the fleet and blob the field. A person will have a real hard time doing that without going insane in short order.

By the way, does a ice belt always spawn at downtime if the system was cleared before downtime? In other words, is someone who logs in right after downtime guaranteed to see ice? If so its a bit of an issue.

A player who's window for eve play starts 2 hours after downtime and ends 5 hours after downtime will almost never see ice. The first spawn of the day will have already been cleared and the next will come right at the end of his window. I thought the idea of the 4 hour timer was so anyone in any time zone would have an equal chance at ice. But for that to be so, the 4 hour timer has to bridge downtime.

Is the first spawn linked to downtime?

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Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#36 - 2013-06-11 01:17:52 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
what? nothing in that situation favours botters at all.

Actually it does. A bot can sit patently doing nothing for four hours, then the second a spawn shows log in the fleet and blob the field. A person will have a real hard time doing that without going insane in short order.

By the way, does a ice belt always spawn at downtime if the system was cleared before downtime? In other words, is someone who logs in right after downtime guaranteed to see ice? If so its a bit of an issue.

A player who's window for eve play starts 2 hours after downtime and ends 5 hours after downtime will almost never see ice. The first spawn of the day will have already been cleared and the next will come right at the end of his window. I thought the idea of the 4 hour timer was so anyone in any time zone would have an equal chance at ice. But for that to be so, the 4 hour timer has to bridge downtime.

Is the first spawn linked to downtime?


If you stay in system your scanner will not update with any new sites. Not sure if this was intentional or not but as of yet new sites that spawn will not show up in your display until you logout or leave system, so botters cannot just wait around (until CCP makes the sites refresh correctly, and even then, they repop in a different location).

They do not spawn at down time. The count down continues from whenever they were depleated counting downtime.

You may never see ice in the systems YOU are watching, but I've been in several systems where there have only been 5 - 10 people mining ice. If you're mining ice in heavily populated areas with popular ice belts thats your own fault. Do your research and find out of the way areas people don't mine, and then defend them against other miners.
Revolution Rising
Last-Light Holdings
#37 - 2013-06-11 03:36:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Revolution Rising
CCP cares nothing for mining except where it impacts PVP and 0.0 players.

Surely the past few years have made this clear ?

The mining profession has been broken for a long long time - there is little interest in fixing it from CSM, and none from CCP.

When they make a change like this and it impacts mining/industry, the care factor is close to zero from all parties concerned.

Perhaps if you worded it in such a way as it shows the impact that 4 hour respawns effect the PVP community or stop retention of new players, someone might care. Or if perhaps the entire economy were to fall apart because of it, they might change it.

.
Dave Stark
#38 - 2013-06-11 09:53:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
Vincent Athena wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
what? nothing in that situation favours botters at all.

Actually it does. A bot can sit patently doing nothing for four hours, then the second a spawn shows log in the fleet and blob the field. A person will have a real hard time doing that without going insane in short order.

By the way, does a ice belt always spawn at downtime if the system was cleared before downtime? In other words, is someone who logs in right after downtime guaranteed to see ice? If so its a bit of an issue.

A player who's window for eve play starts 2 hours after downtime and ends 5 hours after downtime will almost never see ice. The first spawn of the day will have already been cleared and the next will come right at the end of his window. I thought the idea of the 4 hour timer was so anyone in any time zone would have an equal chance at ice. But for that to be so, the 4 hour timer has to bridge downtime.

Is the first spawn linked to downtime?


players can sit patiently doing nothing for hours too. it's called mining :D

no, it doesn't respawn at downtime as far as i know because that'd make the new system completely pointless.

boohoo some one is too lazy to move to find ice when there isn't any in their system. well, **** them for being lazy. people do have an equal chance to mine ice, you people keep using this ****** argument like the respawn timer is at a fixed time in the day. tip: it's not.
Trilanttia
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2013-06-15 17:58:06 UTC
energypills wrote:
Mark Munoz wrote:
You do know that your ship can use star gates to travel to other systems that also spawn ice belts right?


Yeah I want to jump 24 slow alignments to another system to see if a belt just 'happens' to be there.


That is exactly what I have been doing. I thought I was never going to find an ice belt, but it only took me about 10-15 jumps to find one today. Tomorrow........ it may be a different story. I can mine ice now, I am much happier.
Kirkwood Ross
Golden Profession
#40 - 2013-06-16 03:13:21 UTC
The blog says ice belts respawn 4 hours after depleted. I've seen ice belts respawn in 4-7 hours after being depleted so i'm not sure what's up with that.
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