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(Odyssey) Exploration Site Mechanics

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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#521 - 2013-06-10 19:32:24 UTC
Diablo Aeglaeca wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Diablo Aeglaeca wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:

If you're seeking to get this dumbed down/made easier... or to keep CCP from making it even more challenging through iteration... you're not going to find much support. Especially as people get better at it and discover it's really not all that difficult, merely more entertaining.


I seem to remember only asking for a minor tweak to the scattered can timers, making them last a little longer. mostly for inventory management. I didn't imply anything else.



If needed, minor tweaks will happen. However asking for longer can timers is simply an attempt to become more able to reap all of the rewards by yourself, which is at cross purposes one of the design objectives.



1st off, I was fine being able to reap the benefits from before just fine thanks. I actually needed help in the previous version...
the new version is counter intuitive to your "design objectives" stated in your argument because now it only takes me 1 person to do it...lol


you are trolling?


No, but either you are or you can't keep your story straight.

You now say you only need one person to do better than the old system, and yet you said were wanting the cans to stick around even longer so you could farm it more efficiently solo.

Quote:
My argument is that by the time you have blown the core, you have earned your loot. Just how combat sites have earned their chance an officer spawn or rare loot drop. when you pop it, loot drops, you collect, fair deal. You don't have to frantically chase explosion particles that loot like loot cans in the hopes of looting what you already earned.

it's not a fair system. Just make the expiration timers on the scatter-cans a few minutes. That is fair. This way CCP only needs to tweak a value in the coding and won't have to remove any fancy art/design/ animations etc. easy fix.


Get your story straight please, then we'll talk. Smile

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Charley en Cedoulain
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#522 - 2013-06-10 19:33:29 UTC
CCP Bayesian wrote:
Johan Toralen wrote:

You gotta see the positives of it. While you can't cloak for long in a site without it despawning it also means someone else can't wait there cloaked to pop you. Tho i think sites would be more fun for both hunter and prey if cloaking was a-ok. I also don't see the point of sites despawning from the probe scanner after the first container is hacked. Would make for some interesting situations if the competition could chime in halfway through.


If CCP Prime checked his changes in for the patch tomorrow these issues should be fixed. The sites will despawn on completion, when all containers have been either failed or hacked successfully rather than at any other time. The probe scan problem in particular was a regression from the previous behaviour. The cloaking a somewhat over zealous fix for the problem of cloaked ships keeping other kinds of sites around indefinitely and preventing their respawn.



Thank you! Though I have to ask, what was the probe scan problem?
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#523 - 2013-06-10 19:33:53 UTC
Diablo Aeglaeca wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Diablo Aeglaeca wrote:
so which is it then? changes to discourage farming? changes to encourage team play? anybody have a clue?

currently this is a solo-farming heaven, low barrier for entry, value of loot items are nearly halved as the prices crash?

you think its getting bad now, just wait until you hear from all of those passive isk players who use R&D agents. Can't wait to hear their thoughts when they realize the value of those data cores they passively farmed for a year are worth 1/3 to a 1/2 what they used to be.

And yet you complain about not being able to farm specific loot. I think you'd better get your argument straight.

Yes, solo play is still possible and profitable.
Yes, it is more difficult to farm specific loot with 100% accuracy.
Yes, to get 100% of the now larger (and more valuable) drops you need to bring a friend, and presumably split it with him.
Yes, there will probably be some tweaks to can dispersion... but it's doubtful they will make it easier to solo.

Supply and demand will stabilize, as they always do... and if any adjustments to the drops need to be made that is easily done over time. It's going to be a little while before they can get a clear picture as to how prices will be affected, post patch speculation and everyone trying out the new shiney will take a little while to die down... and is not something to base adjustments on just yet.



why do i get the feeling you are CCP trying to sell me an idea I didn't ask for and convince me that this system is better than the way I LIKED IT BEFORE. please leave me alone, I don't like it. That's my opinion. Those are my suggestions, some of the suggestions I also have seen other players express. Any further inflammatory posts and I will have to report you for trolling. You are singling me out of the rest of the conversation that others are having. WHY? TROLL!

Because you are the one contradicting themselves every other post, which is typical troll behavior. Blink

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Diablo Aeglaeca
Dark Alliance
#524 - 2013-06-10 19:34:01 UTC
CCP Bayesian wrote:
Johan Toralen wrote:

You gotta see the positives of it. While you can't cloak for long in a site without it despawning it also means someone else can't wait there cloaked to pop you. Tho i think sites would be more fun for both hunter and prey if cloaking was a-ok. I also don't see the point of sites despawning from the probe scanner after the first container is hacked. Would make for some interesting situations if the competition could chime in halfway through.


If CCP Prime checked his changes in for the patch tomorrow these issues should be fixed. The sites will despawn on completion, when all containers have been either failed or hacked successfully rather than at any other time. The probe scan problem in particular was a regression from the previous behaviour. The cloaking a somewhat over zealous fix for the problem of cloaked ships keeping other kinds of sites around indefinitely and preventing their respawn.



Thank you so much, this will be a welcome patch/fix.
Diablo Aeglaeca
Dark Alliance
#525 - 2013-06-10 19:37:10 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Diablo Aeglaeca wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Diablo Aeglaeca wrote:
so which is it then? changes to discourage farming? changes to encourage team play? anybody have a clue?

currently this is a solo-farming heaven, low barrier for entry, value of loot items are nearly halved as the prices crash?

you think its getting bad now, just wait until you hear from all of those passive isk players who use R&D agents. Can't wait to hear their thoughts when they realize the value of those data cores they passively farmed for a year are worth 1/3 to a 1/2 what they used to be.

And yet you complain about not being able to farm specific loot. I think you'd better get your argument straight.

Yes, solo play is still possible and profitable.
Yes, it is more difficult to farm specific loot with 100% accuracy.
Yes, to get 100% of the now larger (and more valuable) drops you need to bring a friend, and presumably split it with him.
Yes, there will probably be some tweaks to can dispersion... but it's doubtful they will make it easier to solo.

Supply and demand will stabilize, as they always do... and if any adjustments to the drops need to be made that is easily done over time. It's going to be a little while before they can get a clear picture as to how prices will be affected, post patch speculation and everyone trying out the new shiney will take a little while to die down... and is not something to base adjustments on just yet.



why do i get the feeling you are CCP trying to sell me an idea I didn't ask for and convince me that this system is better than the way I LIKED IT BEFORE. please leave me alone, I don't like it. That's my opinion. Those are my suggestions, some of the suggestions I also have seen other players express. Any further inflammatory posts and I will have to report you for trolling. You are singling me out of the rest of the conversation that others are having. WHY? TROLL!

Because you are the one contradicting themselves every other post, which is typical troll behavior. Blink


not really. I don't like the loot scatter system. I'd like longer timers on the cans for loot management. That was my initial suggestion. Your arguments say that:

changes were made to prevent farming, well I'm saying that the changes have encouraged it
you said it was designed for team-play , I'm saying that the current setup encourages solo farming

the impact on the loot items themselves is evidence enough. all you are trying to do is instigate angry responses and confuse the topic. which is trolling.
CCP Bayesian
#526 - 2013-06-10 19:40:09 UTC
Charley en Cedoulain wrote:

Thank you! Though I have to ask, what was the probe scan problem?


It's not very noticeable but contributed to hackers being much safer, essentially the sig of the site disappeared after the first successful hack for anyone else looking. The only way people would be able to find you after that was via combat probing. Now there will be the danger of people cloaked in the site and people able to chance upon you which should increase competition. Adding more risk outside hisec.

EVE Software Engineer Team Space Glitter
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#527 - 2013-06-10 19:51:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Diablo Aeglaeca wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Diablo Aeglaeca wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Diablo Aeglaeca wrote:
so which is it then? changes to discourage farming? changes to encourage team play? anybody have a clue?

currently this is a solo-farming heaven, low barrier for entry, value of loot items are nearly halved as the prices crash?

you think its getting bad now, just wait until you hear from all of those passive isk players who use R&D agents. Can't wait to hear their thoughts when they realize the value of those data cores they passively farmed for a year are worth 1/3 to a 1/2 what they used to be.

And yet you complain about not being able to farm specific loot. I think you'd better get your argument straight.

Yes, solo play is still possible and profitable.
Yes, it is more difficult to farm specific loot with 100% accuracy.
Yes, to get 100% of the now larger (and more valuable) drops you need to bring a friend, and presumably split it with him.
Yes, there will probably be some tweaks to can dispersion... but it's doubtful they will make it easier to solo.

Supply and demand will stabilize, as they always do... and if any adjustments to the drops need to be made that is easily done over time. It's going to be a little while before they can get a clear picture as to how prices will be affected, post patch speculation and everyone trying out the new shiney will take a little while to die down... and is not something to base adjustments on just yet.



why do i get the feeling you are CCP trying to sell me an idea I didn't ask for and convince me that this system is better than the way I LIKED IT BEFORE. please leave me alone, I don't like it. That's my opinion. Those are my suggestions, some of the suggestions I also have seen other players express. Any further inflammatory posts and I will have to report you for trolling. You are singling me out of the rest of the conversation that others are having. WHY? TROLL!

Because you are the one contradicting themselves every other post, which is typical troll behavior. Blink


not really. I don't like the loot scatter system. I'd like longer timers on the cans for loot management. That was my initial suggestion. Your arguments say that:

changes were made to prevent farming, well I'm saying that the changes have encouraged it
you said it was designed for team-play , I'm saying that the current setup encourages solo farming

the impact on the loot items themselves is evidence enough. all you are trying to do is instigate angry responses and confuse the topic. which is trolling.

You do realize you just proved my point right? Smile

In essence you have just said, "The changes to the mechanic makes it easier for others to farm loot, and the timers aren't long enough because it makes it difficult for me to farm loot." Big smileBig smileBig smile

Pointing out the obvious flaws in your logic is not trolling my friend.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#528 - 2013-06-10 19:54:26 UTC
CCP Bayesian wrote:
Charley en Cedoulain wrote:

Thank you! Though I have to ask, what was the probe scan problem?


It's not very noticeable but contributed to hackers being much safer, essentially the sig of the site disappeared after the first successful hack for anyone else looking. The only way people would be able to find you after that was via combat probing. Now there will be the danger of people cloaked in the site and people able to chance upon you which should increase competition. Adding more risk outside hisec.

That should certainly put the risk back in the risk vs reward equation. Smile

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Charley en Cedoulain
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#529 - 2013-06-10 19:58:24 UTC
This will keep me out of lowsec then and push me farther into nullsec because I can just imagine reds sitting inside sites now and decloaking as soon as you warp in.
D'Angelo Barksdale
He's got a pineapple on his head
#530 - 2013-06-10 20:02:14 UTC  |  Edited by: D'Angelo Barksdale
CCP Bayesian wrote:
Johan Toralen wrote:

You gotta see the positives of it. While you can't cloak for long in a site without it despawning it also means someone else can't wait there cloaked to pop you. Tho i think sites would be more fun for both hunter and prey if cloaking was a-ok. I also don't see the point of sites despawning from the probe scanner after the first container is hacked. Would make for some interesting situations if the competition could chime in halfway through.


If CCP Prime checked his changes in for the patch tomorrow these issues should be fixed. The sites will despawn on completion, when all containers have been either failed or hacked successfully rather than at any other time. The probe scan problem in particular was a regression from the previous behaviour. The cloaking a somewhat over zealous fix for the problem of cloaked ships keeping other kinds of sites around indefinitely and preventing their respawn.


If the sites only despawn on completion then most of the sites will hang about with just the crap loot left in them as who's going to hack a can when there's nothing to gain from it.
Its fine as it is and cloaking in a site should let it despawn, if you're that scared of other players stay in high sec.

edit: i spent an hour in null sec scanning data sites and hacked 1 can in 3. cargo scanner ftw.
hulka Puhkastu
L.S.C CORPORATION
#531 - 2013-06-10 20:08:52 UTC
CCP Bayesian wrote:
Charley en Cedoulain wrote:

Thank you! Though I have to ask, what was the probe scan problem?


It's not very noticeable but contributed to hackers being much safer, essentially the sig of the site disappeared after the first successful hack for anyone else looking. The only way people would be able to find you after that was via combat probing. Now there will be the danger of people cloaked in the site and people able to chance upon you which should increase competition. Adding more risk outside hisec.


That is totally okey because I mean after all in such a game you should be able to prevent getting catched (not lose site while doing it) and to encourage to catch others ( for example cloakers waiting for prey to jump in) . And even to jump in to the sites off others and scoop the loot before they can. That is at least what i was expecting all the time in low and null :).
Charley en Cedoulain
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#532 - 2013-06-10 20:09:19 UTC
D'Angelo Barksdale wrote:
CCP Bayesian wrote:
Johan Toralen wrote:

You gotta see the positives of it. While you can't cloak for long in a site without it despawning it also means someone else can't wait there cloaked to pop you. Tho i think sites would be more fun for both hunter and prey if cloaking was a-ok. I also don't see the point of sites despawning from the probe scanner after the first container is hacked. Would make for some interesting situations if the competition could chime in halfway through.


If CCP Prime checked his changes in for the patch tomorrow these issues should be fixed. The sites will despawn on completion, when all containers have been either failed or hacked successfully rather than at any other time. The probe scan problem in particular was a regression from the previous behaviour. The cloaking a somewhat over zealous fix for the problem of cloaked ships keeping other kinds of sites around indefinitely and preventing their respawn.


If the sites only despawn on completion then most of the sites will hang about with just the crap loot left in them as who's going to hack a can when there's nothing to gain from it.
Its fine as it is and cloaking in a site should let it despawn, if you're that scared of other players stay in high sec.


And let lowsec pirates have free reign and spend the whole day just blasting explorers and scooping up our loot? Yeah no thanks. I cloak up for a reason. If I could pilot a combat ship that has great scanning capabilities and stand a fighting chance in pvp (Aka T3) I would, but I can't so no.
hulka Puhkastu
L.S.C CORPORATION
#533 - 2013-06-10 20:09:41 UTC
Charley en Cedoulain wrote:
This will keep me out of lowsec then and push me farther into nullsec because I can just imagine reds sitting inside sites now and decloaking as soon as you warp in.


Lol you think that will not happen to you in null? that was a good one ^^
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#534 - 2013-06-10 20:16:48 UTC
D'Angelo Barksdale wrote:
If the sites only despawn on completion then most of the sites will hang about with just the crap loot left in them as who's going to hack a can when there's nothing to gain from it.

Or you could just force two successive failures. This takes at most 10 seconds per can, not counting the travel time between cans.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Charley en Cedoulain
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#535 - 2013-06-10 20:19:43 UTC
hulka Puhkastu wrote:
Charley en Cedoulain wrote:
This will keep me out of lowsec then and push me farther into nullsec because I can just imagine reds sitting inside sites now and decloaking as soon as you warp in.


Lol you think that will not happen to you in null? that was a good one ^^


No, not by watching local and staying friendly nullsec it won't happen to you, just requires a bit of observation, nice try there.
CCP Prime
C C P
C C P Alliance
#536 - 2013-06-10 20:53:40 UTC
The fixes going in tomorrow are:

A site will not despawn until all containers that contain loot have either been hacked or destroyed.
So you can go in there to find the most valuable can, hack it and cloak as needed or you could cloak and wait for your prey to appear.

The signature for the site will be visible until all cans that have loot have been hacked or destroyed.

Fleet logs will show the loot all members of the fleet managed to gather, and who gathered what.

Software Engineer Team Prototyping Rocks 2 3 5 7 11 13 17 19 23 29 31 37 41 43 47 53 59 61 67 71 ...
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#537 - 2013-06-10 20:55:35 UTC
there are areas of low that are nearly as unpopulated as null with the added benefit of not having the risk of running into bubble camps.

and a covops frigate costs nothing compared to what it makes.

forums.  serious business.
Haulie Berry
#538 - 2013-06-10 20:56:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Haulie Berry
CCP Prime wrote:
The fixes going in tomorrow are:

A site will not despawn until all containers that contain loot have either been hacked or destroyed.



This is bad, and is going to result in a lot of sites that have been stripped of any significant value just hanging around indefinitely. At least have them despawn if they've been touched and vacated.
Charley en Cedoulain
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#539 - 2013-06-10 21:03:56 UTC
Haulie Berry wrote:
CCP Prime wrote:
The fixes going in tomorrow are:

A site will not despawn until all containers that contain loot have either been hacked or destroyed.



This is bad, and is going to result in a lot of sites that have been stripped of any significant value just hanging around indefinitely. At least have them despawn if they've been touched and vacated.


Id rather go in and find a site with containers left alone that have positron cords or skill books left. you don't always need the loot worth hundreds of millions of isk, every little bit counts.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#540 - 2013-06-10 21:06:25 UTC
Haulie Berry wrote:
CCP Prime wrote:
The fixes going in tomorrow are:

A site will not despawn until all containers that contain loot have either been hacked or destroyed.



This is bad, and is going to result in a lot of sites that have been stripped of any significant value just hanging around indefinitely. At least have them despawn if they've been touched and vacated.

I think people are going to "trip" those low value sites to get rid of them faster. Greed is an excellent incentive to be tidy.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.