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Exploration loot prices

First post
Author
Paul Uter
Doomheim
#1 - 2013-06-08 08:37:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Paul Uter
Now with almighty logic of CCP by making exploration in your face super easy and super abundant how far do you think prices will crash ??

How will that influence success of an expansion.
Arkenai Wyrnspire
Incorruptibles
#2 - 2013-06-08 08:44:58 UTC
If lots of people are doing it, that's a successful expansion.
Of course, there's always going to be someone like you who cries about everything.

Someone.

Tyco Iinuit
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2013-06-08 08:45:31 UTC
If prices crash as you predict, then people will search alternative ways to make isk, rather than exploring. Then , the decrease of explorers will make prices rise, reaching an equilibrium state, where true explorers will succeed and make profit and ocasional hype exporers will return to mining or pve.

The REAL problem is not where you point IMHO, the problem is at the ridiculous short loot tables, I ran around 20 sites, and got lots of the same blueprints (even the faction ones that I got) and decryptors, expect those to be cheaper every day. If the loot tables are expanded, then prices wouldn´t crash , due to high diversity of goods being retrieved by exploration. The problem is really there. Every data site and relic you get the same 60-80 items.
Rhyonda Mcklenn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4 - 2013-06-10 17:25:07 UTC
Loot prices are already down near worthless. None of the decryptors over a million anymore. Many far lower. There is also alot of noise in the pricing (it is all over the place). CCP has killed the market on these. It may recover eventually, but given the number of people I see exploring, this is not likely anytime soon. I used to make by doing exploring easily double what i could highsec mining in a day. Now, it is not even half. Without the ability to make enough money to buy a PLEX, i'm probably dropping out of what used to be a fun game.

Its easy for d*cks on the board to minimize the troubles of casuals like myself, but for CCP they need to look at this as making it tougher for newbs to get into a 10 yr old game.

What kills me about the explor changes is that it was completely unnecessary. They broke what did not need fixing.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#5 - 2013-06-10 17:28:31 UTC
Rhyonda Mcklenn wrote:

What kills me about the explor changes is that it was completely unnecessary. They broke what did not need fixing.



Citation needed

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann

CCP Bayesian
#6 - 2013-06-10 17:40:15 UTC
We're revisiting the loot but a lot of this is due to the sheer increase in number of people using the feature. Six times more people doing it makes a huge supply side change! The data and relic sites in particular are seeing a awful lot of visitors. Things will obviously adjust as people drift off to other things and in part the depressed prices for the loot will help with that as it will move on those who are just taking part in the immediate gold rush post changes.

EVE Software Engineer Team Space Glitter

Diablo Aeglaeca
Dark Alliance
#7 - 2013-06-10 17:56:09 UTC
CCP Bayesian wrote:
We're revisiting the loot but a lot of this is due to the sheer increase in number of people using the feature. Six times more people doing it makes a huge supply side change! The data and relic sites in particular are seeing a awful lot of visitors. Things will obviously adjust as people drift off to other things and in part the depressed prices for the loot will help with that as it will move on those who are just taking part in the immediate gold rush post changes.


I guess it depends on the loot changes? Making what used to be valuable by making it valuable again through scarcity? Which will require even more sites to be run to reach the value of last? Ever heard of the term dilution? Adding more loot will just make those items added less valuable. Every item added, it's value will go down. Making certain items more rare just makes farmers just have to farm more....more work less reward at that point. We were told that we should be making about what we used to make before. That lasted a few days until everyone found out how EASY it is lol and that is the problem, it's too easy for everyone, not just too easy to get into as well.

Previously, out in null, I used to have to run a site with 1 probe/hack/salvage toono and 1 good PVE fit BC or something. what was the intent with the changes here? To make people buddy up? Because that's the way the old system worked before it was changed. there is no need to buddy up now. Does CCP want to ruin game play for mulit-boxers with 5 accounts or more (like myself)?

Now you are in catch 22 loot table equilibrium / market changes balancing act. Just seems to me to be a lot of work for CCP. I'd suggest re-adding the same rats that were there before. This brings back "team play" not "solo farming".

I put a lot of though, skill training and effort as well as real life money and in game isk into being able to run these sites Pre-Oddysey. Now all that effort seems a little wasted and look at all the problems CCP is going to have work through. Ugh, what a mess Cry

Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#8 - 2013-06-10 18:00:25 UTC
Yup there is no way a successful multi-million pound company like CCP ever considered the extremely basic and obvious market forces that this change would bring.







http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_mrNQBLSMU






"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann

Ioci
Bad Girl Posse
#9 - 2013-06-10 18:07:03 UTC
CCP Bayesian wrote:
We're revisiting the loot but a lot of this is due to the sheer increase in number of people using the feature. Six times more people doing it makes a huge supply side change! The data and relic sites in particular are seeing a awful lot of visitors. Things will obviously adjust as people drift off to other things and in part the depressed prices for the loot will help with that as it will move on those who are just taking part in the immediate gold rush post changes.



Anyone who cries about cheap decryptors needs to use them first.

They want to make ISK from their loot?
I want to actually have a snowballs chance in hell of saving ISK when I invent and produce my own ships. It doesn't work out that way though.

R.I.P. Vile Rat

Johan Toralen
IIIJIIIITIIII
#10 - 2013-06-10 18:31:11 UTC
CCP Bayesian wrote:
We're revisiting the loot but a lot of this is due to the sheer increase in number of people using the feature. Six times more people doing it makes a huge supply side change! The data and relic sites in particular are seeing a awful lot of visitors. Things will obviously adjust as people drift off to other things and in part the depressed prices for the loot will help with that as it will move on those who are just taking part in the immediate gold rush post changes.


The issue is multilayered. Just tweaking the loot tables will not fix the situation. It's a lose-lose situation really. Less loot = less income. Identical loot as now = less income due to falling prices. Main issue to me seems that the entry barrier to run the "hard" sites is way too low both in skill requirement and initial investment in ship and equipment.

As Diablo Aeglaeca mentioned you promised during the Sisi test that explorers will get roughly the same after Odyssey as before. This is all falling through the roof now due to the easy mode farming. Please reconsider to bring back the rats after failure. At least in null and low. That would go a long way already in my opinion. And if the number of explorers still stays so high please think about a wider variety in loot or ways to create more demand for the loot items.
Eru GoEller
State War Academy
Caldari State
#11 - 2013-06-10 18:38:33 UTC
Arkenai Wyrnspire wrote:
If lots of people are doing it, that's a successful expansion.
Of course, there's always going to be someone like you who cries about everything.

But, there's no expansion to be seen here, it's just an altered way of doing things the easiest
possible way.
Diablo Aeglaeca
Dark Alliance
#12 - 2013-06-10 18:39:56 UTC
Eru GoEller wrote:
Arkenai Wyrnspire wrote:
If lots of people are doing it, that's a successful expansion.
Of course, there's always going to be someone like you who cries about everything.

But, there's no expansion to be seen here, it's just an altered way of doing things the easiest
possible way.



quoting for truth
Paul Uter
Doomheim
#13 - 2013-06-10 18:43:35 UTC
Eru GoEller wrote:
Arkenai Wyrnspire wrote:
If lots of people are doing it, that's a successful expansion.
Of course, there's always going to be someone like you who cries about everything.

But, there's no expansion to be seen here, it's just an altered way of doing things the easiest
possible way.



So it is actually a contraction ...
Suicidal Blonde
Alchemical Aquisitions
#14 - 2013-06-10 18:43:57 UTC
Please don't bring back the rats on failure. At the moment im happy to sit and see where this iterates too. ( loot spew still sucks)
I would add a higher barrier for entry in another way.
I dont know what but im not paid to come up with ideas. im just a forumite.

Hmm. Well that was a mostly pointless post.
Ho hum.
Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#15 - 2013-06-10 18:53:01 UTC
mm.. talking about doing relic and data sites i tried it last night for first time..
i made 5mil roughly according to my cargo-bay est price in about 1 1/2 hours half that time was trying to find any sites to enter they seem to get probed and completed very fast....

I would either suggest more sites with more items per can/more valuable items or start adding some faction items in there maybe some of the more expensive meta 4 items like meta4 damage control. some mining/ice meta items are expensive.
basically meta items that are expensive that should be cheaper... maybe add some new storyline items/buff current ones so they are worth buying.

it could be like a item price control if something becomes too expensive for what it does than increase seeded amounts and lower other items that become too cheap. etc..

'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium Nerf missile range into place where is the TD missile change?  ..projectiles should use capacitor. ABC's should be T2 HABC and nerf web strength its still too high

Johan Toralen
IIIJIIIITIIII
#16 - 2013-06-10 18:53:58 UTC
Suicidal Blonde wrote:

I would add a higher barrier for entry in another way.
I dont know what but im not paid to come up with ideas. im just a forumite.


One thing that i suggested several times is higher skill requirements for virus strenght and coherence. For example in the null sites the strenght and coherence of firewalls, suppressors etc could be doubled. But players could go around that by spending 1-2 months for new skills "hacking specialization" and "archaeology specialization" to double their own stats. Or it could be tied to the existing skills for the racial encryption methods. That would make lot of sense actualy because thers plenty of these books around in profession sites.
Steve Spooner
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#17 - 2013-06-10 19:05:15 UTC
I'm not complaining, I used to have to risk a tengu to make 100 mill a hour, now I use a 2 mill fit heron and make double that from a decent site. Big smileBig smileBig smile
Diablo Aeglaeca
Dark Alliance
#18 - 2013-06-10 19:11:39 UTC
Steve Spooner wrote:
I'm not complaining, I used to have to risk a tengu to make 100 mill a hour, now I use a 2 mill fit heron and make double that from a decent site. Big smileBig smileBig smile



anybody who ran the sites last week, before the weekend, needs to run them again. Try tonight. Sites that last week were putting good isk out are diluted now since the value of items crashed.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#19 - 2013-06-10 19:15:47 UTC
Diablo Aeglaeca wrote:
Steve Spooner wrote:
I'm not complaining, I used to have to risk a tengu to make 100 mill a hour, now I use a 2 mill fit heron and make double that from a decent site. Big smileBig smileBig smile



anybody who ran the sites last week, before the weekend, needs to run them again. Try tonight. Sites that last week were putting good isk out are diluted now since the value of items crashed.


Nope, not where I am.


You should try harder.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann

CompleteFailure
DAWGS Corp.
Deepwater Hooligans
#20 - 2013-06-10 19:19:34 UTC
Diablo Aeglaeca wrote:

I put a lot of though, skill training and effort as well as real life money and in game isk into being able to run these sites Pre-Oddysey. Now all that effort seems a little wasted and look at all the problems CCP is going to have work through. Ugh, what a mess Cry


Is it CCP's fault that you chose to skill a certain way and spend real and in-game money on something that you assumed would always stay the same? When has Eve ever not gone through iteration and changes?
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