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Ships n Stations

Author
Hyper Visor
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2013-06-10 09:51:07 UTC
This fixes nothing, just something that occurred to me while jumping through the depths of space last night...

Apart from the rear thrusters, ships on the whole are pretty lifeless looking objects. They're also able to slow down, twist and turn without any sign of other propulsion. Which gives a pretty unrealistic effect. Why not add forward and side thruster effects? Such a simple change will add a lot to the look and feel of a ship, and give it a bit of life.

The other thing I wanted to suggest was station exit point placement. If I was, for example, not sitting at my desk tapping out this forum post, and instead planning to build a colossal inter-galactic space station. Why on Earth would I design the exit point for ships to be from a side of the station where it would force ships to navigate around the whole structure before being able to safely warp away! OR in EVE's case warp straight through the station, as if by magic. This is such a simple fix. Redesign offending stations, so that the ships exit is at a point where all stargates are warpable, mainly above or below the station.

I would place these visual changes above the new jump effect, as flying through a solid structure totally takes you out of the experience, and EVE is all about the ships.
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#2 - 2013-06-10 09:55:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximus Aerelius
Perhaps you read my post and perhaps you didn't regarding Undocking - More Routes Out of Station but I'd be curious to know your thoughts.

I like the side-thrusters\maneuvering thruster idea...I'd love to see us able to flip ships bow over stern like in BSG instead of being in a submarine stylee in space.
Goti fase
Faulcon de Lazy
#3 - 2013-06-10 10:26:22 UTC
Bit like the ships in Nexus - The Jupiter Incident?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibViWr9cAWw

Not the best video for showing what I mean but there are snaps of ships using maneuvering thrusters.
Hyper Visor
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-06-10 10:28:53 UTC
Yeah I saw and +1 it. I didn't want to hijack the thread, as this suggestion deals more on the visual impact flying through solid structures has, and the design principles behind stations.

I'll post feedback on your thread :D
Hyper Visor
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2013-06-10 10:39:40 UTC
Good shout Goti, yeah something like that.

Death to submarines in space!
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#6 - 2013-06-10 13:20:11 UTC
Hyper Visor wrote:
Yeah I saw and +1 it. I didn't want to hijack the thread, as this suggestion deals more on the visual impact flying through solid structures has, and the design principles behind stations.

I'll post feedback on your thread :D


I'd appreciate that. I too am wholly against flying through solid structures but I think this is covered by the "creates a rift in space and time" although I won't go into the in's and outs. I don't have YouTube access at work but I'll sub to this thread and check out that video. If it's like how the Vipers in Battlestar Galatica (BSG) manoeuvre then I'm in for a "HELL YEAH!" Cool
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#7 - 2013-06-10 13:30:52 UTC
I have often felt that the business of warping through solid structures could be solved by making the warp tunnel opaque, as it is when you warp through a planet.

Maneuvering thrusters might be interesting, but they could also result in creating lag or increasing the demand on one's GPU.

Be careful before going around saying "We need to totally redesign how ships can fly in EVE". Part of what makes it nice is that flying isn't overly complicated and involved unless you want it to be. That being said, perhaps the answer to my concern is that some kind of a switch be added to allow a pilot the ability to toggle between "Standard" and "Active" flight control.
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#8 - 2013-06-10 13:39:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximus Aerelius
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
I have often felt that the business of warping through solid structures could be solved by making the warp tunnel opaque, as it is when you warp through a planet.

Maneuvering thrusters might be interesting, but they could also result in creating lag or increasing the demand on one's GPU.

Be careful before going around saying "We need to totally redesign how ships can fly in EVE". Part of what makes it nice is that flying isn't overly complicated and involved unless you want it to be. That being said, perhaps the answer to my concern is that some kind of a switch be added to allow a pilot the ability to toggle between "Standard" and "Active" flight control.


Nice post and things to consider, we are restricted by what our technology can handle IRL but would it put that much strain on a GPU to at least add a little thruster action. I know we need to be wary for the people on older cards though, good caution advisory.
Hyper Visor
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2013-06-10 13:47:25 UTC
It wasn't a suggestion for manual piloting, just a visual representation on how your ship is making the maneuvers it's doing.
I also imagine this would be under the category of; Trails, Missile Effects, GPU Particles, etc, and would be optional.

For the stations, I can understand the whole space rift thing, but for me that's a cop out. OK for planets I guess, as by that point the ship has potentially reached "full" warp. But from starting right next to a structure? Hmm, just looks wrong to me.
Hyper Visor
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2013-06-10 13:53:08 UTC
Here's a really bad example of the thruster effect: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wXlFrlg9_Q but the closest I've found to what I'm thinking.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#11 - 2013-06-10 14:05:01 UTC
You weren't suggesting manual piloting, but someone else seemed to be. As far as thrusters are concerned, when someone says "navigational thrusters" I tend to think back to the Star Citizen demo.
Hyper Visor
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2013-06-10 14:14:47 UTC
Yep that's more like it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92rb-8mYHE0 @ 05:15
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#13 - 2013-06-10 17:07:40 UTC
Hyper Visor wrote:
Here's a really bad example of the thruster effect: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wXlFrlg9_Q but the closest I've found to what I'm thinking.


This is definitely what I was thinking with my BSG reference (couldn't YouTube it at work). This would be so awesome but the other links could be a stepping stone to this as the ultimate goal. I'd so be the pilot "space drifting" around asteroids for days though ha ha
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#14 - 2013-06-10 17:39:47 UTC
I have always consoled myself with the idea that the thrusters are just there to give a little impetus, and the actual drive of the ship functions through gravity manipulation.

Essentially, our ships provide a plane that we fall down on, and the engines just get us going. This is why we bob around, our ships have a definite up and down that they prefer, and without our thrusters we eventually come to rest... we are anchoring ourselves in gravity.

The tech is in the lore, that is how tractor beams function., and why a frigate with a tractor beam can easily drag the wreck of a battleship around.
Hyper Visor
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2013-06-10 21:25:33 UTC
That sounds pretty cool Mike, and in some ways I kinda like all that lore stuff. But in other ways it seems like it's just been made up, coz they didn't have the ability to display thruster effects at the time :D

At the end of the day, I'd much prefer to look at a ship that appears to be full of life, than the lifeless stick which is my Iteron!
Solutio Letum
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2013-06-11 01:22:11 UTC
Hyper Visor wrote:
This fixes nothing, just something that occurred to me while jumping through the depths of space last night...

Apart from the rear thrusters, ships on the whole are pretty lifeless looking objects. They're also able to slow down, twist and turn without any sign of other propulsion. Which gives a pretty unrealistic effect. Why not add forward and side thruster effects? Such a simple change will add a lot to the look and feel of a ship, and give it a bit of life.

The other thing I wanted to suggest was station exit point placement. If I was, for example, not sitting at my desk tapping out this forum post, and instead planning to build a colossal inter-galactic space station. Why on Earth would I design the exit point for ships to be from a side of the station where it would force ships to navigate around the whole structure before being able to safely warp away! OR in EVE's case warp straight through the station, as if by magic. This is such a simple fix. Redesign offending stations, so that the ships exit is at a point where all stargates are warpable, mainly above or below the station.

I would place these visual changes above the new jump effect, as flying through a solid structure totally takes you out of the experience, and EVE is all about the ships.


Ships use a special gravitational engines, they make the ship turn, like actual rockets, the rockets on your ship does not look like its turning allot, but it is, its applying more pressure on one side of the thruster to help a bit, but mainly putting rockets on sides would add complexity and un needed weigth, did you ever see ships in the sea with side engines? it would help, but its not needed so they dont put any

I know it might sound hard for you but ships are really big, putting more engines would cost to much for anything, and would make the ship entirely slower.

But again some kind of new age gravity control would be expected from something this high end has a space ship, its probably what gives us a maximum speed
Hyper Visor
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2013-06-11 08:43:12 UTC
OK so it appears I am being beaten by the lore here, I'm not gonna win that argument.

TBH my suggestion was mainly about breathing life into the ships in EVE. I'm no miner. But when I see something like the Exhumers, with their pistons and burners, they look like fully operational living ships. I'd just like to see more of this.

So my point still remains; whether its rockets, thrusters, gravitional engines, or anything else, CCP has the artistic license to represent any of these visually in anyway they wish.
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#18 - 2013-06-11 08:47:06 UTC
Hyper Visor wrote:
OK so it appears I am being beaten by the lore here, I'm not gonna win that argument.

TBH my suggestion was mainly about breathing life into the ships in EVE. I'm no miner. But when I see something like the Exhumers, with their pistons and burners, they look like fully operational living ships. I'd just like to see more of this.

So my point still remains; whether its rockets, thrusters, gravitional engines, or anything else, CCP has the artistic license to represent any of these visually in anyway they wish.


It was a good line of thinking though Hyper Visor and I've had the thought a few times and wondered why it was never done this way but just put it down to "limits of graphics".
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#19 - 2013-06-11 08:48:08 UTC
@Hyper Visor:

You could even say that "You fought the lore...and...the lore won!"
Hyper Visor
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2013-06-11 09:33:22 UTC
Damn, should of thought of that!!

At the end of the day we can all sit down and invent reasons on why things are the way they are in the game. I could say that in the far distant future the universe would have expanded by so much, that you'd probably be piloting your ship in a sea of darkness. But that would look pants, much nicer to have amazing nebulas!

I'd love to see Titans brimming with life, so that if you'd zoom right in you'd see tiny shuttles scurrying around the surface, maintenance bots working, etc, etc...

EVE is an epic game and it needs to continue to look epic into the next 10 years. If keeping to the lore means lifeless looking ships, then the lore is wrong.
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