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HACKED OFF!!! CSM and CCP: Please consider our plea!! Restore sanity to Hacking and Archeology!

First post
Author
Aramis Rosicrux
Ordo Rosa Crux Templaris
#1 - 2013-06-09 17:48:11 UTC
Reward brains, not reaction time and dexterity!Shocked

I, like many other Eve players, have physical challenges, which I have overcome by styling my game play to the things that take mental abilities instead of super coordination or reaction time. In particular, I had a very nice, fun and manageable way to play the game by hunting hacking and archeology sites.

Now, with the pixel-hunt mad scramble to collect the rewards of hacking and archeology, CCP has ruined one of the few exploration activities available to us. I suspect I am not the only physically-challenged player who enjoys Eve.

Making the game a test of dexterity and reaction time can only lead to the game being dominated by teenagers and meth addicts.

CCP, if you have the brains to read these, please recognize that not all of your playing subscribers are up to the hand-eye sort of gameplay. I, and many others, like strategy and tactics, and game play that rewards planning and persistence.

Knee-jerk explosions of the rewards of hacking and archeology sites means that there are fewer activities for solo players, lone-wolves and those of us whose real-life responsibilities prevent us from devoting our lives to six hour missions, 50-jump journeys though hostile territory and madcap antics that have nothing to do with the conquest of space, exploration, or science.

Thank you.

Aramis Rosicrux

Sinq Laison

Support Space Science!! Join the Planetary Society!

planetarysociety.org

==============

About Aramis Rosicrux

My EveBoard Signature PNG

Ripard Teg
Jerkasaurus Wrecks Inc.
Sedition.
#2 - 2013-06-09 23:51:35 UTC
As an older gamer myself, I have to admit that I have a certain amount of sympathy with your position. Last night, I ran five relic sites in a row with a total of about 17 cans and by the time I was done, my hand hurt. No comments from the peanut gallery, please. Lol Part of it is my own damn fault: I pride myself on being a good EVE manual pilot and chasing all of those little green pixels in space results in a lot of double-clicking.

As far as I can see, the two goals of the "lootsplosion" are to encourage you to bring friends along to make sure all the cans get scooped up, and to actively distract you away from local and your d-scanner so that bad people like myself have a better chance of catching you off guard and killing you. Both of these are goals that I support. But I think a better solution could have been found that supports those two goals than the lootsplosion. It'll be something that I mention at the appropriate time.

Thanks for your input!

aka Jester, who apparently was once Deemed Worthy To Wield The Banhammer to good effect.

Aramis Rosicrux
Ordo Rosa Crux Templaris
#3 - 2013-06-10 00:11:17 UTC
Mister Teg:

Thank you for a well-considered reply to my concerns. It is good to know that the CSM leaders take our feelings into account.

I hope this issue can be reconsidered.

Aramis Rosicrux

Sinq Laison

Support Space Science!! Join the Planetary Society!

planetarysociety.org

==============

About Aramis Rosicrux

My EveBoard Signature PNG

Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#4 - 2013-06-10 00:33:47 UTC
Aramis Rosicrux wrote:
Mister Teg:

Thank you for a well-considered reply to my concerns. It is good to know that the CSM leaders take our feelings into account.

I hope this issue can be reconsidered.

Aramis Rosicrux

Sinq Laison



Though it is nice to have someone from the current CSM sympathise with you (and I also agree, this twitch based abomination is the antithesis of Eve's theme), please remember the previous CSM signed off on this mess, it has now been released, and given CCP's track record, it is unlikely it will be removed.

At best, you might hope for the explosion velocity of the cans to be lowered, dramatically.
dark heartt
#5 - 2013-06-10 03:52:46 UTC
Just wanted to pop in here and say that I agree. While it is more engaging than push button - receive bacon, it certainly isn't very Eve like in its implementation.

Also, very good post.
Remy Duchateau
Milligan Interstellar Industry and Trade Co.
#6 - 2013-06-10 12:23:55 UTC
If you ask me it isn't that intensive and twitch-based. Yes, you need to quickly look around, hover the cans, see what they are and choose to click them, but I can easily give my hands a 2-second break while whooping in one can.
This may be because I'm a younger player than most and I'm still "fresh and young". So in a sense I can bring up sympathy.
My tip here is to just casually get the cans you REALLY want and then go steady on the rest of the cans.
Unforgiven Storm
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
#7 - 2013-06-11 20:32:45 UTC
Aramis Rosicrux wrote:
Reward brains, not reaction time and dexterity!Shocked

I, like many other Eve players, have physical challenges, which I have overcome by styling my game play to the things that take mental abilities instead of super coordination or reaction time. In particular, I had a very nice, fun and manageable way to play the game by hunting hacking and archeology sites.

Now, with the pixel-hunt mad scramble to collect the rewards of hacking and archeology, CCP has ruined one of the few exploration activities available to us. I suspect I am not the only physically-challenged player who enjoys Eve.

Making the game a test of dexterity and reaction time can only lead to the game being dominated by teenagers and meth addicts.

CCP, if you have the brains to read these, please recognize that not all of your playing subscribers are up to the hand-eye sort of gameplay. I, and many others, like strategy and tactics, and game play that rewards planning and persistence.

Knee-jerk explosions of the rewards of hacking and archeology sites means that there are fewer activities for solo players, lone-wolves and those of us whose real-life responsibilities prevent us from devoting our lives to six hour missions, 50-jump journeys though hostile territory and madcap antics that have nothing to do with the conquest of space, exploration, or science.

Thank you.

Aramis Rosicrux

Sinq Laison


+1

my opinion about this:

http://thelazypilot.wordpress.com/2013/06/06/a-huge-dump-on-the-top-of-a-chocolate-cake/

Unforgiven Storm for CSM 9, 10, 11, 12 and 13. (If I don't get in in the next 5 years I will quit trying) :-)

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#8 - 2013-06-11 21:25:25 UTC
Aramis Rosicrux wrote:


Making the game a test of dexterity and reaction time can only lead to the game being dominated by teenagers and meth addicts.


Lol

You realise you're playing a video game?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#9 - 2013-06-11 21:26:19 UTC
Ripard Teg wrote:
No comments from the peanut gallery, please.


y u hate :(

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2013-06-15 07:10:24 UTC
Its not just age, i had 3 friends who used to scan alot, now i have to roll solo.

granted im the first person in any thread usually to say "HTFU" when someone complains older hardware keeps them from doing X, so CCP should never implement X, but my friends had older monitors, so fairly low resolution, and fairly smal screens comparatively, and chasing around those boxes is a pain in the ASS 98% of the time.

that on top of arthritic, colorblind, tired (off-TZ) players, people multi-boxing, people who dont have any friends, etc, all have issues.

now granted solo players can use a cargo scanner to see the contents of the wreck in a data/relic to decide which can-types to snag, but that offers an unfair advantage again to people who can actually read the blasted things on their computer.

again, i have no problems on MY computer, but my friend MADE me sit down and try it on his, and where i can usually get 3/4 to 4/5 of the cans solo, i got maybe 1/6 of them on his comp.

and i reiterate the issue for players with any number of health issues.
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2013-06-15 07:12:40 UTC
Ripard Teg wrote:
As an older gamer myself, I have to admit that I have a certain amount of sympathy with your position. Last night, I ran five relic sites in a row with a total of about 17 cans and by the time I was done, my hand hurt. No comments from the peanut gallery, please. Lol Part of it is my own damn fault: I pride myself on being a good EVE manual pilot and chasing all of those little green pixels in space results in a lot of double-clicking.

As far as I can see, the two goals of the "lootsplosion" are to encourage you to bring friends along to make sure all the cans get scooped up, and to actively distract you away from local and your d-scanner so that bad people like myself have a better chance of catching you off guard and killing you. Both of these are goals that I support. But I think a better solution could have been found that supports those two goals than the lootsplosion. It'll be something that I mention at the appropriate time.

Thanks for your input!

appropriate time, eh? so when CCp bails goons out of their inevitable loss of space and have to reconcile with the playerbase, you'll be right up there pitchin the idea, right?

(sorry, but i just ahd to make a jab at goons, gonna be fightin them for the next while it seems, this'll be the first time i have pvp'ed in a cruiser worth less than 800mil in a long time)
Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
#12 - 2013-06-18 16:06:52 UTC
I like the hacking mini-game but not for relic sites, that really should be about scanning things and finding them with your analyser.

I can't say I am that fond of the can spewing, I don't mind if the sites blow up because you failed cos eve is supposed to be harsh, but why would you have cans spewing all over the place? Why give the players electronic parts, when that are generally worthless [and when the stated future of eve is supposed to remove npc sell orders, so unless something is done with electronic parts for instance, they will be even more worthless]. Maybe if the nodes in the mini-game were tied to the items in a can, so you unlock a node and the item appears under it and/or you kill an anti-virus and the item appears in the can
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#13 - 2013-06-18 18:08:34 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Aramis Rosicrux wrote:
Mister Teg:

Thank you for a well-considered reply to my concerns. It is good to know that the CSM leaders take our feelings into account.

I hope this issue can be reconsidered.

Aramis Rosicrux

Sinq Laison



Though it is nice to have someone from the current CSM sympathise with you (and I also agree, this twitch based abomination is the antithesis of Eve's theme), please remember the previous CSM signed off on this mess, it has now been released, and given CCP's track record, it is unlikely it will be removed.

At best, you might hope for the explosion velocity of the cans to be lowered, dramatically.


To say we signed off on it in the specific form that its in is I think a stretch. I think CSM 7 liked the idea of improvements in hacking and adding a "mini-game" but to say we said to thumbs up to the twitchness of the current implementation is incorrect. I personally think "twitch type gaming"has no place in Eve.

Issler
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#14 - 2013-06-19 19:53:41 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Aramis Rosicrux wrote:


Making the game a test of dexterity and reaction time can only lead to the game being dominated by teenagers and meth addicts.


Lol

You realise you're playing a video game?


Do you realize that games like Civilization also are videogames?

Does CCP realize that some of us have 20/70 eyesight even with our glasses on? (and yes, the loot boxes are too small for me, now scorn me)

BTW Malcanis, are you too bad at sarcasm or too good at being an ass? What?
Terrorfrodo
Interbus Universal
#15 - 2013-06-26 09:02:01 UTC
Sorry but developers cannot and should not design their games for disabled people. And you still can go mining, or do manufacturing or a number of other activities where you have unlimited time to get your cursor to where it needs to be.

I also dislike the loot explosion, but I realize that it's mostly my own fault because I insist to do the sites alone with two chars. Can't be bothered to always get someone else come along and give him part of my loot P So I have to frantically switch between clients and click on the cans first with the one pilot, then with the other and back again. That's indeed quite twitchy.

But if I just used one pilot, it would not be twitchy at all because you can only pick up one can every few seconds anyway. But then I'd miss more loot, and of course I'm too greedy to do that Lol

.

DSpite Culhach
#16 - 2013-06-26 09:31:35 UTC
Terrorfrodo wrote:
Sorry but developers cannot and should not design their games for disabled people. And you still can go mining, or do manufacturing or a number of other activities where you have unlimited time to get your cursor to where it needs to be.

I also dislike the loot explosion, but I realize that it's mostly my own fault because I insist to do the sites alone with two chars. Can't be bothered to always get someone else come along and give him part of my loot P So I have to frantically switch between clients and click on the cans first with the one pilot, then with the other and back again. That's indeed quite twitchy.

But if I just used one pilot, it would not be twitchy at all because you can only pick up one can every few seconds anyway. But then I'd miss more loot, and of course I'm too greedy to do that Lol


You're missing a vital point.

Some of us don't give a rats about getting everything, someone like me is happy enough to even grab cans at random, and just do sites over and over and average out "good" runs against "bad" runs. The fun is in the exploring and scanning. On that note, scanning seems a bit easy now. I sorta miss having 4 possible dots and having to figure out which one is the right one.

What is driving us nuts is the sheer amount of zooming in and out, mousing over moving targets, and generally ending up doing more work then Logi pilots on Incursions.

I would of preferred more cans, loot more spread out, slower cans, smaller sphere. Since the beam has a timer, you'd still end up with only a fraction of cans acquired, so same result solo, and more cans would mean even two players would not get all of them.

I go clay pigeon shooting. Everytime I get a loot explosion my brain call out "pull". It just feels like I have to focus THAT much.




I apparently have no idea what I'm doing.

Terrorfrodo
Interbus Universal
#17 - 2013-06-26 10:38:25 UTC
DSpite Culhach wrote:
It just feels like I have to focus THAT much.

How is that a bad thing?

People always ridiculed EVE and called it 'spreadsheets online'. Now that CCP tries to move away from that and transform more areas of EVE into an actual game, it turns out that a lot of people never wanted a real game, they want their spreadsheets back.

.

pmchem
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2013-06-29 17:46:15 UTC
anything to make exploration less of a clickfest, please

https://twitter.com/pmchem/ || http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/community-spotlight-garpa/ || Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal

Ciaphas Cyne
Moira.
#19 - 2013-07-27 02:02:58 UTC
hi, first forum post for me. i was a casual player back in 07-08 and im just getting back into the game now.

So far i find the hacking mini-game and can clicking a somewhat amusing addition to the game. its certainly got my attention this time around, where previously i couldnt be bothered with exploration. like alot of you have mentioned, EVE isnt exactly known for having a lot of "visceral" game play which of course, depending on how you like to play, can be good or bad. ultimately, its different, and variety is good.

My other thought is that requiring players in EVE to rely more on each other, in any way, is also good. The game is already far too alt/multiboxing friendly. So, to be honest, hearing that some of you boxers are having trouble with this new mechanic is great news.

To the OP, i really do feel for you that you cant do these sites solo anymore. Having something that was accessible suddenly become 100x the challenge isnt fun for anyone. if you can get a consistent group of explorers with varied skill sets together youll see these sites are 100x more rewarding when your beating them, with friends, and maybe building on those reaction time issues in the process.

issues related to user equipment limitation...i give my first EVE forum tears to...felt good

"buff only the stuff I fly and nerf everything else"

  • you
Frying Doom
#20 - 2013-07-28 00:23:56 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Aramis Rosicrux wrote:


Making the game a test of dexterity and reaction time can only lead to the game being dominated by teenagers and meth addicts.


Lol

You realise you're playing a video game?

No I am playing a computer game.

Well not much of one these days but at least trading can be fun.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

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