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Thanatos PVE
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Ciyrine
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-06-06 05:33:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Ciyrine
I was bouncing back and forth between sentry and fighters for thanatos. I heard good arguments in favor of both but the one that convinced me to go fighter were

1) thanatos + sentry has to be stationary which makes it easier to gank. with fighters can stay aligned and up to speed
2) sentries pop easier at 1mil or so loss each. Since I wont be part of a carrier/sentry blob that matters. Fighters are even more expensive but can be kept alive through shield transfer.
3) having frigate...ish fighters taking off my carrier is somewhat epic :)
4) sentries require more drone module/rig support to reach the same DPS

in favour of sentries

1) faster DPS application
2) sentries dont need shield transfer, they get hit, they die, pop out a new one

pending some testing Im currently thinking about moving the carrier into close proximity with the rats since my resistances will be better than the fighters and will help draw some aggro off them. And then removing the need for as much drone control range. That could be crazy talk that will get me killed

Heres the build my newb self has come up with so far so be gentle

14x dragonfly fighter drones

high
shield transporter
4x drone control

med
2x invuln field II
capital shield booster
heavy capacitor booster II (800 charges)
sensor booster II

low
damage control II
4x capacitor power relay

rig
large targeting system subcontroll II
large anti-EM screen reinforcer II
large capacitor control circuit II

if I reduce the cap modules/rigs I go from 1hr capacitor supply to 9 minute capacitor supply. Maybe 9 minutes is way more than enough I dont know without playtesting the ship but 1 hr sounds much better

65%, 64%, 73%, 74% resistances
1154000 EHP, 124700 actual shield, 5200 shield recharge
1792dps
125km targeting range
122 signature resolution(up from like 65 so locking will almost be reasonable speed)

So, am I making any mistakes in the build? I felt like I didnt do the low slots justice by going with so much capacitor module.
vyshnegradsky
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#2 - 2013-06-06 06:19:58 UTC
Ciyrine wrote:
I was bouncing back and forth between sentry and fighters for thanatos. I heard good arguments in favor of both but the one that convinced me to go fighter were

1) thanatos + sentry has to be stationary which makes it easier to gank. with fighters can stay aligned and up to speed
2) sentries pop easier at 1mil or so loss each. Since I wont be part of a carrier/sentry blob that matters. Fighters are even more expensive but can be kept alive through shield transfer.
3) having frigate...ish fighters taking off my carrier is somewhat epic :)
4) sentries require more drone module/rig support to reach the same DPS

in favour of sentries

1) faster DPS application
2) sentries dont need shield transfer, they get hit, they die, pop out a new one

pending some testing Im currently thinking about moving the carrier into close proximity with the rats since my resistances will be better than the fighters and will help draw some aggro off them. And then removing the need for as much drone control range. That could be crazy talk that will get me killed

Heres the build my newb self has come up with so far so be gentle

14x dragonfly fighter drones

high
shield transporter
4x drone control

med
2x invuln field II
capital shield booster
heavy capacitor booster II (800 charges)
sensor booster II

low
damage control II
4x capacitor power relay

rig
large targeting system subcontroll II
large anti-EM screen reinforcer II
large capacitor control circuit II

if I reduce the cap modules/rigs I go from 1hr capacitor supply to 9 minute capacitor supply. Maybe 9 minutes is way more than enough I dont know without playtesting the ship but 1 hr sounds much better

65%, 64%, 73%, 74% resistances
1154000 EHP, 124700 actual shield, 5200 shield recharge
1792dps
125km targeting range
122 signature resolution(up from like 65 so locking will almost be reasonable speed)

So, am I making any mistakes in the build? I felt like I didnt do the low slots justice by going with so much capacitor module.


You're the guy who came back recently right? If so welcome back. I wont troll here but in all honesty, don't use a carrier for ratting. It will only end with you getting ganked.

Also, you can do much better in a battleship, a carrier is just unnecessary.

This one's a bit over the edge guys.

Locked for breaking... well, pretty much all the rules.

  • CCP Falcon
Ciyrine
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#3 - 2013-06-06 06:25:32 UTC
I thought about a rattlesnake too but really like the idea of a carrier. And after searching around people were saying that they did rat in a carrier and made the most isk that way. you dont think it can survive?

And would you make any changes to that build?
Effect One
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4 - 2013-06-06 08:46:35 UTC
The people making the most ISK while using a carrier are, I imagine, running anoms with them rather than belt ratting.

For belt ratting a sub-capital ship will be much more effective and enable system mobility, which will result in more ISK in the long run.

'This might be internet spaceships, but it's not rocket science to protect yourself and fly with a little common sense' - CCP Falcon
Lina Theist
Running out of Space
ExoGenesis Consortium
#5 - 2013-06-06 09:44:39 UTC
I've run anoms in a carrier for about half a year, both with sentries and fighters.

Both are valid. However, they require different fittings.

Fighter thana:
High: 5 DCUs
Mid: 3 sebos, 2 TPs
Lows: 1 rep, 2 harderners, 3 nanos.
Rigs: 3 CCCs

Used when you need to be agile. You'll probably want to approach the rats' spawn point so your fighters have shorter travel distance.

Sentry Thanny:
High: 5 DCUs
Mid: 3 Sebos, 2 Omnis
Lows: 3 slot tank, 3 DDAs
Rigs: 3 CCCs

I favor this one. Gardes can handle pretty much any site, I only use them. If there's any reason to be vary of a gank, deploy fighters instead and align. Offence is the best defence when running sites, as the shorter time you're in the site, the less risk of you getting ganked. The tank has never been a problem for me in any site.
Ciyrine
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#6 - 2013-06-06 13:44:29 UTC
do you lose sentries?

how do you know when its safe to use sentries? I would think youd want to be aligned and on the move(using fighters) at all times.

which fighter do you prefer?

do you seboth TP on same target or split them on 2 different targets?

CCC rig is what type of rig?

is there a shield version of the rep module?
Annunaki soldier
Perkone
Caldari State
#7 - 2013-06-06 14:13:09 UTC
first of all dont listen to anyone about ratting carriers. People are dump enough to lose machariels that almost all the time cost much more and do less ticks.

About ratting . If you use sentries on the high put 1 heavy neut for defence. Use repair drones for the sentries when needed (1 heavy is enough) Carry only sentries heavies small and ecm to reduce the cost down.

You dont need on middle slots the sensors sentries can attack when attacked without being locked. Use for omnis for the tracking and cap along 1 100MWD. For those that are going to troll , test this. Sit still with OH MWD. Start the warp off and do 1 cycle and watch that carrier move away after the cycle ends (still depending on skills ) Low, DDA and tank and you golden. Overall ISK 1.5 with 1.7 depending on prices still much lower than the average gist booster machariel and better ticks in almost all cases .

Ride hard, live with passion 
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#8 - 2013-06-06 16:14:06 UTC
Annunaki soldier wrote:
first of all dont listen to anyone about ratting carriers. People are dump enough to lose machariels that almost all the time cost much more and do less ticks.



Anyone getting lower ticks using a Mach than a carrier is really really bad at using a mach. i've NEVER seen a carrier get a 45-49 mil wallet tick in Angel space, hell in sansha and blood raider space i do 37 mil ticks and 40+ in serp/gurista space.

Carrier just can't do with a properly flown Machariel or Vindicator can, period.
Annunaki soldier
Perkone
Caldari State
#9 - 2013-06-06 17:47:06 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Annunaki soldier wrote:
first of all dont listen to anyone about ratting carriers. People are dump enough to lose machariels that almost all the time cost much more and do less ticks.



Anyone getting lower ticks using a Mach than a carrier is really really bad at using a mach. i've NEVER seen a carrier get a 45-49 mil wallet tick in Angel space, hell in sansha and blood raider space i do 37 mil ticks and 40+ in serp/gurista space.

Carrier just can't do with a properly flown Machariel or Vindicator can, period.







in angels yes because you need explosive and machariel can use t2 version. Bouncers on the other hand.. How about drones ? the rest that you can use gardes also you go pretty much close if not more.

Still make 2 ships same isk , then go try same anomaly to see who will have better ticks. People are just concerned about the capital loss not the isk loss they can have. Thats my point. At angels cheapest choice will be a vargur . Pretty close to mach and fit cost near the carrier. I seen people ratting in 5b vindis. Thats almost 3 carries loss . So what's the point of not using 1 ?

Ride hard, live with passion 
Ciyrine
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#10 - 2013-06-08 19:18:38 UTC
Annunaki soldier wrote:
Still make 2 ships same isk , then go try same anomaly to see who will have better ticks.


are you saying that carrier costs half as much as macharial so build 2 carriers and fly them together? I only have one account. whats the isk/hr for carrier vs macharial ratting?
Ciyrine
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#11 - 2013-06-08 19:22:21 UTC
Annunaki soldier wrote:


About ratting . If you use sentries on the high put 1 heavy neut for defence. Use repair drones for the sentries when needed (1 heavy is enough) Carry only sentries heavies small and ecm to reduce the cost down.




1) why do you want heavy neut when using sentries?

2) dont sentries pretty much pop if they get targeted so using repair drone would be hard?

Quote:
Use for omnis for the tracking and cap along 1 100MWD. For those that are going to troll , test this. Sit still with OH MWD. Start the warp off and do 1 cycle and watch that carrier move away after the cycle ends (still depending on skills ) Low, DDA and tank and you golden.


i didnt understand any of this
Varun Arthie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2013-06-09 07:08:15 UTC
Fact:
EVERYONE WANTS A CAPITAL SHIP KILLMAIL.

A Thanatos can get pointed by a rifter, then batphone mates so you have to be geared up for when the **** hits the fan.

So instead of focusing soley on drones for defence and offence, you will probably want atleast:

A heavy Neut so you can cap drain anything thats gets too close
A large smartbomb

Then put a decent tank in low slots, you have 6 lows, so atleast 3 slots.

This setup is based on T2 fitting, with everything at Level V.

High
Heavy Energy Neut II
Large Smartbomb
DCU
DCU
DCU

Medium
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Sensor Bosster II (Scan resolutionscript)
Cap Recharger II
100MW Micro Warp Drive II

Low
Damage Control Unit II
Capital Armour repair unit
Energised Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energised Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Rigs
Capital Anti explosive pump II
Capital Capacitor Control Circuit II
Capital trimark amrour Pump II

This does around 1151 DPS with Garde IIs
And has a tank of around 1.27 Million EHP.




Stetson Eagle
Paird Technology
#13 - 2013-06-09 10:30:00 UTC
Bad advice ITT.

If you have Intel open and you are ready to push the jump button, nothing bar awox will get you realistically. By fitting a proper setup you make the carrier difference in isk fast, under a week compared to ratting in a bad fit.

Ring sanctum fighters is viable at 120-130M/hour but a lot of focus in pathing them right. Generally sentries are vastly superior, though.

Fit 5 drone damage amps, 3 omnitracks, 2 scripted sensor boosters, 4 or 5 drone control units depending on your rig choise, and either pvp rigs or drone range rigs. This setup ticks 120-150M/ h semi afk. Scrubs who lose carriers ratting should still do this because the isk difference is still in favor of gank carrier over a bad fit or ship.
Alexa Coates
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2013-06-09 11:38:13 UTC
are you seriously announcing that you're going to be solo-flying a cap solo, op?

It's like wearing a giant billboard that says "PLEASE REAM ME A NEW *******"

That's a Templar, an Amarr fighter used by carriers.
Lina Theist
Running out of Space
ExoGenesis Consortium
#15 - 2013-06-09 11:54:01 UTC
Ciyrine wrote:
do you lose sentries?

how do you know when its safe to use sentries? I would think youd want to be aligned and on the move(using fighters) at all times.

which fighter do you prefer?

do you seboth TP on same target or split them on 2 different targets?

CCC rig is what type of rig?

is there a shield version of the rep module?


I don't lose sentries. The fighters should be adjusted to the damage type you need, as they do the same damage. I prefer firbolgs though

CCC is the capacitor reg rig.

I dual TP the target my fighters are approaching. When it's dead or near dying, switch to the next primary.
Ciyrine
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#16 - 2013-06-09 13:03:17 UTC
Stetson Eagle wrote:

Ring sanctum fighters is viable at 120-130M/hour but a lot of focus in pathing them right. Generally sentries are vastly superior, though.


what are ring sanctum?

what do you mean focus in pathing them right?


Quote:
Medium
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Sensor Bosster II (Scan resolutionscript)
Cap Recharger II
100MW Micro Warp Drive II


isnt 100mw MWD too weak for a capital ship? whats it there for?
nahjustwarpin
SUPER DUPER SPACE TRUCKS
#17 - 2013-06-09 14:07:49 UTC
Ciyrine wrote:
Stetson Eagle wrote:

Ring sanctum fighters is viable at 120-130M/hour but a lot of focus in pathing them right. Generally sentries are vastly superior, though.


what are ring sanctum?

what do you mean focus in pathing them right?


Quote:
Medium
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Sensor Bosster II (Scan resolutionscript)
Cap Recharger II
100MW Micro Warp Drive II


isnt 100mw MWD too weak for a capital ship? whats it there for?


if you don't have any idea about 0.0 anoms, then probably you aren't even there. i would say that you should just rat in a tengu or other ship untill you'll get to know how anoms look and what 100mn mwd on a cap is for
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#18 - 2013-06-09 14:54:55 UTC
I personally know dual account owners who run sanctums in 15 minutes flat, and bring in 400mil an hour.

granted, they're very experienced. also entrenched in a very high profile alliance.

if you wanted to rat in a carrier, you should join a null alliance and make sure they're ok with the idea. however, instead of reaching out to them one by one, you should see if there are recruitment ads that list anom ratting as one of their supported activities. because you'll need support, and this way you aren't letting each of these groups know you're coming in hot with a Thanatos.

also, you've picked a bad time to fit a carrier with T2 Capacitor Control Circuits... because as of Odyssey (4 June), there's another C: Capital. and right now the Capital T2 CCCs are running 1.5B, and Thanatoses have jumped a bit, above 1.4B.

But I do have them for sale.

if you're still interested in a Thanatos fit with T2 CCC rigs as described by Lina Theist, let me know. With the right support, the Thanatos is the carrier you're looking for--don't let people dissuade you from your enjoyment. heck, without support, any ship is dead in the water. so don't let that logic bother you either.

Lina Theist wrote:
I've run anoms in a carrier for about half a year, both with sentries and fighters.

Both are valid. However, they require different fittings.

Fighter thana:
High: 5 DCUs
Mid: 3 sebos, 2 TPs
Lows: 1 rep, 2 harderners, 3 nanos.
Rigs: 3 CCCs

Used when you need to be agile. You'll probably want to approach the rats' spawn point so your fighters have shorter travel distance.

Sentry Thanny:
High: 5 DCUs
Mid: 3 Sebos, 2 Omnis
Lows: 3 slot tank, 3 DDAs
Rigs: 3 CCCs

I favor this one. Gardes can handle pretty much any site, I only use them. If there's any reason to be vary of a gank, deploy fighters instead and align. Offence is the best defence when running sites, as the shorter time you're in the site, the less risk of you getting ganked. The tank has never been a problem for me in any site.

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Ciyrine
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#19 - 2013-06-09 15:21:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Ciyrine
Quote:
if you don't have any idea about 0.0 anoms, then probably you aren't even there. i would say that you should just rat in a tengu or other ship untill you'll get to know how anoms look and what 100mn mwd on a cap is for


Im planning for the future. I have to know what and how Im going to be playing if Im going to plan my skills a year or two out.

If I only plan my skills based on what Ive already done then ill never be able to plan my skills appropriately. Instead Ill meander around for 3 years doing everything before finally figuring things out and THEN planning my skills 6 months out(having already done many of the skills by accident)

I have 3 remaps to work with and I intend to use them well. So Im asking questions about things I wont be doing for another 2 years. Ive been playing for a month now after a 3 year break(played for a month or two the first time around). In this past month ive made 1.5 billion on ice mining. In 9 months i will have the skills to fly a tengu with almost max skills and 6 months later the skills to fly a thanatos with almost max skills. I could fly a tengu much earlier with lower skills but Im training skills in big blocks(because of remaps) so the first 9 months involves a lot of carrier skills too

whats a ring sanctum

what do I have to path for fighters

why run a carrier with 100mn MWD(too small to be effective right?)
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#20 - 2013-06-09 16:21:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Rain6637
you enter warp at 75% of your max velocity in the direction of your warp. microwarp drives increase your acceleration and also your maximum velocity by 500%. microwarp drives also have a 10 second cycle time. by cycling the microwarp drive just once, you accelerate faster than normal, and when the cycle ends, your maximum velocity suddenly drops, leaving you above 75% of your maximum velocity... thereby entering you into warp.

in this way, your align time is more consistently 10 seconds, when otherwise it would take longer to enter warp.

//let's help you envision your plans.

download for full resolution-->This is a perfect ratting Thanatos pilot in 1.5 years, roughly. including remap points and using +5 implants after training Cybernetics V. you'll want cybernetics V anyway, so getting it out of the way initially and training with +5s is a good idea.

I've arranged the skills for time efficiency, but you might want to break from that occasionally to improve tanking, or drone dps, etc. (open to critique, I did it kind of fast. forgot smarbombs, neuts I think.)

by this plan you'll be able to sit in the Thanatos in 6 months, and you'll have a damn near perfect sentry thanatos pilot (with your 4x drone controls) a year later. with this skill list you can fit any of the mods listed in people's setups.

when you want to move on to other things, perhaps other capitals, you can train Jump Drive Calibration V and Jump Fuel Conservation V, capital remote reps, triage, etc. the significant thing about this train is you have near perfect core skills for powergrid and CPU, and armor tanking, and you're in a good spot to move to other things.

lastly, not everyone in EVE is mean. there are plenty of skilled players who are willing to explain things in plain english. also consider the forums another avenue for PVP. ...for frustrated players. they could've just explained the 100mn mwd thing to you.

I guarantee you at least a quarter of the people who read this thread found out about the capital rig thing just now, after I posted it. Blink

so how about them Thannys, I'll give you a good deal.

Alexa Coates wrote:
are you seriously announcing that you're going to be solo-flying a cap solo, op?

It's like wearing a giant billboard that says "PLEASE REAM ME A NEW *******"

confirming that solo caps are flown solo.

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
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