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Level 4 Mission Runner aiming dual box
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Xorcha
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2013-06-09 12:00:50 UTC
I'm looking to start running level 4's, I almost have the skills and my preference will be to dual box them in a couple of months time when my alt is trained up.

I really like the idea of a laser boat however pre-Odyssey there were some complaints about Amarr mission boats being useless after the patch.

So I have a couple of questions and could use some pointers:

- Navy Armageddon feasible? If not, what BS would you suggest that's not going to break the bank (can't afford pirate BS just now)
- Beam/Pulse lasers?
- My preference is to run to identical BS for ease of use, is this a good plan?

Thanks in advance
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2013-06-09 14:35:46 UTC
dual napocs with scorch pulses

Art of Explosions
Mr Floydy
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#3 - 2013-06-09 14:42:05 UTC
Dual Paladins / Nightmares ;)

Spare highslots to cap gen between them. Easy mode.
Dato Koppla
Spaghetti Militia
#4 - 2013-06-09 14:58:11 UTC
I'd use dual N.Apocs as N.Geddons will lack range in missions where rats spawn further than 60km and having 2k dps but having to wait for it to come to you isn't efficient, or maybe 1 of each if you don't mind breaking your same boat rule.
Xorcha
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2013-06-09 15:39:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Xorcha
Thanks for the input guys. I've worked up two similar fits, let me know if they're massively wide of the mark Smile

Both include microwarp drive as I can't stand slow boating around, perhaps an AB would be better.......

[Apocalypse Navy Issue, mission]

Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Damage Control II
Explosive Plating II
Kinetic Plating II
Thermic Plating II
Large Armor Repairer II

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
100MN Microwarpdrive I
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script

Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L

Large Energy Discharge Elutriation II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I


Hobgoblin II x5
Hammerhead II x5

PYFA:
717 DPS (99 hobs incl)
78.3k EHP
84k Optimal

[Armageddon Navy Issue, mission]

Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Damage Control II

Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
100MN Microwarpdrive II

Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
[Empty High slot]

Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Energy Discharge Elutriation II


Hammerhead II x5
Hobgoblin II x5

PYFA:
820 DPS (99 hobs incl)
130k EHP
64k Optimal

Buffer tanked but could replace plate with armour rep with loss of 20k ehp.


So apoc has 20k extra range but does accordingly 100 less dps. Tank on geddon seems massive regardless of approach.

Let me know your thoughts.

@Mr Floydy: That's the longer term plan Blink
Dato Koppla
Spaghetti Militia
#6 - 2013-06-09 15:58:19 UTC
A few things, since you're dualboxing most things will die so fast your tank won't be pressured much so you should just have a token burst tank, I'd go for a LAR + 3 Active Hardeners, which is another thing, I see you used platings on your N.Apocs and I assume it's for CPU reasons but you should really try to use active hardeners. Second, one of the main reasons to use a N.Geddon is the sentries, you should definitely have T2 sentries and fit a couple omnis on your N.Geddon. Also you won't need extra buffer on a L4 mission BS, ditch the plate. An MWD is nice for some missions but not all of them require burning around, in fact in many missions you are on the gate or very close to it and don't need to move much at all.
The Djego
Hellequin Inc.
#7 - 2013-06-09 20:11:09 UTC
As for the easiest use I would do tach or beam setups, since you need considerable less ammo switching and you are more flexible with the range.

[Armageddon Navy Issue, New Setup 1]
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I
Reactor Control Unit II
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Core B-Type Large Armor Repairer

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script

Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Drone Link Augmentor II

Large Energy Discharge Elutriation II
Large Ancillary Current Router I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I


Hobgoblin II x5
Curator II x5

You can also look into the paladin(4HS, T2 damage rig to improve the dps) or the NM(better effective tracking).

My current navy Apoc looks like this, 30km optimal with conflag/multi and 91km optimal with scorch:

[Apocalypse Navy Issue, New Setup 1]
Core B-Type Large Armor Repairer
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I
Heat Sink II
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink

Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Cap Recharger II
Core A-Type 100MN Microwarpdrive

Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L

Large Energy Locus Coordinator II
Large Energy Discharge Elutriation II
Large Energy Discharge Elutriation I


Curator II x3
Hobgoblin II x2
Hobgoblin II x3

Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2013-06-09 21:37:39 UTC
since when has ammo switching been an issue with laz0rs oO

Art of Explosions
The Djego
Hellequin Inc.
#9 - 2013-06-09 23:14:02 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
since when has ammo switching been an issue with laz0rs oO


Since eve got a massive amount of module lag(that even got worse in the 1.5 years I was away) while playing with multiple accounts, making ammo switches a lot less instant as people might think.

Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread
Ginger Barbarella
#10 - 2013-06-10 00:44:37 UTC
The Djego wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
since when has ammo switching been an issue with laz0rs oO


Since eve got a massive amount of module lag(that even got worse in the 1.5 years I was away) while playing with multiple accounts, making ammo switches a lot less instant as people might think.


Crystals still change near-instantaneously for me with two clients running at the same time. No problems here

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Shereza
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2013-06-10 05:01:02 UTC
I've had less problems swapping crystals on my navy apocalypse and nightmare than before, and that's with alts in a machariel and noctis and all four clients up on four different monitors simultaneously as well. The only "lag" I get is from right-clicking on the drone interface window. Used to be nearly instantaneous and now it takes a couple seconds.

As for the topic at hand, I'm fond of pairing a nightmare and machariel myself. The range differential can sometimes be a pain, but usually it works out to the machariel working its way up the size chart while the nightmare works its down. Likewise I do get missions where EM or thermal isn't necessarily the best damage type and a machariel with fusion or phased plasma works great in those situations.

Of course after the changes to the various ships what I might do is put my nightmare pilot back into a dominix, slave its drones to my navy apoc, and use that for long range/battleship fire while the machariel continues to take out short-range/smaller targets with ACs. Given that with just a pair of FedNav and one T2 omni links Garde II drones will hit to 81-84km optimal with over .1 tracking there's a lot of attraction to the idea, and by slapping a quad of 800mm ACs on said dominix I can help contribute to close-in fire to support the machariel if needed.

Well, that or I can do the "smart" thing and slap a couple remote reps on it, swap in an injector, and make it into a logistics ship.
The Djego
Hellequin Inc.
#12 - 2013-06-10 10:13:47 UTC  |  Edited by: The Djego
Yes the drone UI lag is also quite bad and a lot worse than before Odyssey.

In general after coming back to the game I had extreme issues with the UI, confronting it with my changed key binding and key spamming habits, that I got used to in other games. I generally try to be very gentle and wait for the UI now and it kind of works, but it is quite in a bad shape compared with other games in my opinion.

While not everybody handles it like me, I have very big issues with UI lag during multi boxing, where crystal changes don't work(displaying a laser without charge that fires, and require double changing ammo back in forth to get back in a controlled condition), modules get stuck in a extra 33% cycle till they get responsive again or even run a complete blind cycle trying to get the cancel command to the server and back.

You can look at my issues in this vid: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1305/Abaddon_L4_Recon_1.mkv

That isn't even while multi boxing and once you are in a situation where you actually require instant ammo switching(like the old 120s NCO blitz legion gangs or more modern NCO Paladin gangs) because everything dies in a blink of a eye, it becomes very annoying.

Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread