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Moving Jita! Lets Do The Impossible!
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Esyavore Lando
Talu Shaya Industries
#1 - 2013-06-09 14:18:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Esyavore Lando
Edit: I will trade at New Caldari II (Matias) Station. Everyone is welcome to join me. Lets see how it developes over the next year


Is it possible to write eve history? To move the Hub of Jita?

I know it is insane, basically needless and probably not possible. So... isn`t that a lovely challenge?

For me as trader it is a great long term goal!

How to succeed:

1. get as good as Jita:
- establish choice of products as good as Jita in new hub in seeding it with all items (more than 8500)

2. get Jita worse:
- compete with Jita buy orders so Jita sell orders run out of supplies.
- perform buyouts on slow producing Jita sell orders

result: Customers will find their needs better satisfied at the new hub and move there as standard choice. Traders will follow customers.
In this final stage it will be a battle between Jita traditionalist traders and the new hub traders. The most persistent will win the future center of New Eden.

This cant be done alone, but there is no need to form a corporation or alliance. Traders who like this endeavor would share a common goal, but still go there on an individual path. Its just a choice where to trade. If several traders make this choice it can have the required impact. They would be part of a change in Eve, which affects almost every player (who hasnt been to Jita?)

I dont expect this to develop fast. It will probably take months or years to establish a new hub.


So where should be the new hub?

-it should be in Forge and close to Jita, so customers of Jita can get attracted to it while browsing the market
(they will see the new orders in market)

-it should be placed in the center of New Eden with short routes to other trade hubs

-it should have access to vast manufacturing facilities

-it should have a nice scenery worthy of a galatic center

-it has to have a 50% base refinery

-a medical service would be great

-close to lowsec (capital market) would be nice

-different regions closeby


Suggestions are welcome!


My research so far favors:

New Caldari II (Matias) ...Station

- it is in Forge 1 Jump from Jita.

- it has an awesome scenery, big temperate planet in background named Matias

- 18 Manufacture Stations (x50 Slots) in same region within 1 Jump (Jita has 15)

- hubs of Amarr, Dodixie and Rens are same distance as Jita

- Forge, Citadel and Lonetrek within 1 Jump (same as Jita)

- 50% Refinery

- Traffic jam lets people strand there regulary, so there are already customers

- since Gallente took old Caldari Homeworld, New Caldari is their main system.

Drawbacks:

- no medical

- no close lowsec ( Edit: but with 3 Jumps still closer than Jita and not too far )

If you know of a better place, feel free to post it.
Let me know your ideas!
Novia Ephrael
You'll Thank Me Later
#2 - 2013-06-09 14:29:47 UTC
Seems a bit strange to try to move Jita one jump. Why not aim to set it up on the other side of the universe? Or just expand one of the other current trade hubs that are far away.
Esyavore Lando
Talu Shaya Industries
#3 - 2013-06-09 14:33:22 UTC
Novia Ephrael wrote:
Seems a bit strange to try to move Jita one jump. Why not aim to set it up on the other side of the universe? Or just expand one of the other current trade hubs that are far away.



Because customers of Jita will not notice an improvement of a hub outside forge. They just cant see the orders. So they will stay in Jita forever.
Salmash
Royal Expeditionary Force
Olde Guarde Historical Preservation Society
#4 - 2013-06-09 14:54:42 UTC
just make Amarr better than jita :)

Niajra will be fun :)
(cant spell the name, but we all know the system)
Job Valador
Professional Amateurs
#5 - 2013-06-09 16:37:49 UTC
want too really impress me? successfully make and enforce (player police) a trade hub in low sec. Basically moving Jita one jump over seems too simple Straight

"The stone exhibited a profound lack of movement."
Samroski
Middle-Earth
#6 - 2013-06-09 17:35:13 UTC
Yes, the idea is totally insane. As a challenge, it is definitely appealing.

To compete with Jita, the hub needs to be in Forge, otherwise might as well buff Amarr or one of the other hubs. A site which is closer to the other hubs than Jita may be another requirement. Otherwise New Caldari seems ok to me, though the location needs to be discussed thoroughly. If the hub is not in Forge, a number of possibilities open up, though it would again need to be in Caldari space to compete with Jita, otherwise it'll become like any other minor hub.

I pledge 20b towards this project, if it ever gets off the ground. Probably maintain orders for a lot more. Just a drop in the ocean that you'll require to make your goal a reality :)

Any colour you like.
Jori McKie
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2013-06-09 17:53:20 UTC
Location matters but your main goal is to get T1 and T2 Ship producer onboard, lots of them. When you established the ship market get some T2 module producer to follow. Only then the new hub will have a chance.
Btw. Itamo is the factory system for Jita.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." - Abrazzar
Caleb Ayrania
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#8 - 2013-06-09 17:53:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Caleb Ayrania
These threads are usually ending up in discussions of emergent and swarm behavior.

You can not compete with Jita as long as we have pseudo-communism from npc and game features.

We need a boost to contracts and market orders for traders, and a pricce dynamic broker fee and tax pricing.

The problem with Jita is that even though Office rent is high everything else npc wise cost the same.

Also pop into the lounge if you want this discussion its already in several old threads.
Dasola
New Edens Freeports
#9 - 2013-06-09 19:18:06 UTC
Last time major trade hub moved it took no less then hand of God to make it happen in first place (CCP removed few critical gates)..

Personally if i would take endeavor like this, i would make it other side of galaxy then jita. Who cares if jita bots wont see it.. Blink

Good luck on your endeavor. Should be doable, its just the usual how to do it...

We are Minmatar, Our ship are made of scraps, but look what our scraps can do...
Esyavore Lando
Talu Shaya Industries
#10 - 2013-06-09 19:40:22 UTC
Caleb Ayrania wrote:

You can not compete with Jita as long as we have pseudo-communism from npc and game features.

We need a boost to contracts and market orders for traders, and a pricce dynamic broker fee and tax pricing.

The problem with Jita is that even though Office rent is high everything else npc wise cost the same.


Not sure what you mean. Are you referring to NPC buy and sell orders? Are they concentrated in Jita? To my knowledge they are the minority of items and should only have a minor impact. And to my experience many NPC orders are missing in Jita. Correct me if im wrong. Jita has no NPC buy orders for sleeper components to mention one field.
What do you mean with price dynamic broker fee? Its in % now isnt it? Whats the drawback in that?

Caleb Ayrania wrote:
Also pop into the lounge if you want this discussion its already in several old threads.

is "the lounge" a chat channel? Where do I find it? Do you have some links to old threads?
Esyavore Lando
Talu Shaya Industries
#11 - 2013-06-09 19:43:17 UTC
Dasola wrote:

Personally if i would take endeavor like this, i would make it other side of galaxy then jita. Who cares if jita bots wont see it.. Blink


Its about the customers who have to see it. Not bots.
And it has to be in the center so people from all the universe can reach it.
voetius
Grundrisse
#12 - 2013-06-09 19:57:24 UTC

the lounge is a chat channel : scc-lounge

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=220273&find=unread

"the center" is Kaap btw Cool but it may not have the medical etc, haven't really looked.
Esyavore Lando
Talu Shaya Industries
#13 - 2013-06-09 20:27:06 UTC
Samroski wrote:
A site which is closer to the other hubs than Jita may be another requirement.


That would be benefitial yes. But I didnt see a suitable station in that direction yet. The ones I checked did have significantly less manufacturing facilities than jita. Tell me if you find a good candidate. One more consideration might be the security status. Im not familiar with high sec ganks but I think you have less time to gank in a 1.0 system than in 0.5.


Samroski wrote:

If the hub is not in Forge, a number of possibilities open up, though it would again need to be in Caldari space to compete with Jita, otherwise it'll become like any other minor hub.

I agree. The Caldari mission runners should not have a too great distance to the new hub, as they are a lot of customers.

Samroski wrote:

I pledge 20b towards this project, if it ever gets off the ground. Probably maintain orders for a lot more. Just a drop in the ocean that you'll require to make your goal a reality :)

awesome!

thx voetius
I will check the area around Kaap
Grandma Squirel
#14 - 2013-06-09 21:27:40 UTC
I don't see how your buy order plan is going to work. Your going to crash the margin to avoid 0.01 isk games, and export anything you manage to get to your new hub? Even if the 0.01 iskers don't immediately jump in again, your plan is that this will cause the market to dry up. But that will lead to higher sell order prices, which will then create margin for the 0.01iskers to start buying against. Meanwhile, as manufacturers start to notice the price effect of your manipulation, they will ramp up production, and start flooding Jita with more product...

As mentioned by others, only intervention by CCP could overcome the enormous inertia of Jita being market superhub. Just deleting or adding gates wouldn't even do it at this point, you would need to adjust either the tax rate, or the broker fees such that there was a real economic penalty for using Jita.
Rual Storge
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#15 - 2013-06-09 21:28:23 UTC
You can only manage to pull this off by pricefixing the buy and sell orders, thats allooooot of isk!
Cheekbone Trader
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2013-06-09 21:34:52 UTC
Setting up a new trade hub next door to Jita may not be feasible, but we can definitely turn smaller trade hubs into large ones. Palas, for example.
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
#17 - 2013-06-09 21:41:44 UTC
The trouble is, I've watched hubs die.
Oursulaert, Yulai. Ideally we would leave Jita be and have more spread out Hub traffic. Eve is big enough we shouldn't be able to function with a single hub but here we are.
Gretkong
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#18 - 2013-06-09 21:58:45 UTC
I'm on board.
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#19 - 2013-06-09 22:03:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Zappity
Rual Storge wrote:
You can only manage to pull this off by pricefixing the buy and sell orders, thats allooooot of isk!


You would not have to fix all items. As long as you were initially selling most common items for prices comparable with Jita you could fix a few (well, a few hundred) key items that were hard to transport. Think ship hulls.

What just happened with Caracal supply is informative. Get a list of major alliance doctrines and start there.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
The Greenmachine Greenmachine
Green's Bicycle Shop
#20 - 2013-06-10 00:38:21 UTC  |  Edited by: The Greenmachine Greenmachine
I've thought about doing something like this myself but I thought at coming at it from a different angle.
What if a group of people was large enough to fill up say 500 slots in jita with just alts forcing people to start looking to go somewhere else because they simply cannot get in. This, along with the combination of your idea of either setting up a brand new hub or making Amarr or something the new main trade hub, could be possible.
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