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Incursions Start here.

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Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#281 - 2013-06-06 19:33:28 UTC
Estella Osoka wrote:
Goldiiee wrote:
Lorcon Allaniax wrote:
Do vanguard incursions jam? Would it be worth it to fit ECCM on our two guardians instead of using sensor boosters?

Yes the Niarja jams: It has been over a year and more than a few Patches since we tried ECCM on a Logi, at that time it didn't work, I don't know if they changed anything since then.

But the long and short of it is a Niarja jams with considerably more strength than a module can compensate for, best to kill it first and kill it quick.


The sensor compensation skills were added. Don't know if they make that much of a difference, but they do increase snesor strength. So maybe a ECCM mod would be feasible.

I use this link to see that the jamming strength is only 6 but the chance is 100%, all that aside a well rounded fleet can usually get rid of the Niarja or two in 3 to 4 seconds with an Aplha from well trained Artillery. So adding a module to prevent jamming for two or three seconds a site is counterproductive. All that being said the next time I am running a VG fleet I will check the ECCM module and relay back here whether it worked or not.

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
The Djego
Hellequin Inc.
#282 - 2013-06-06 22:57:28 UTC  |  Edited by: The Djego
ECCM in some cases prevented logi jamming, however the better effect of it actually was that it did draw lots of agro on the logis, making sites easier to tank, since logis are a lot easier to rep up than BS. However this got changed at some point, removing the handy 2. effect and I dropped the ECCM. Most of the current gangs will drop the Niarja fairly fast so it is more or less a wasted slot.

@Carmen Alistair

CMs actually do a fairly good job in Assault and HQ sites, where targets got a lot of hit points and can be out to 160km. Since all CM ships also carry painters, dps projection under 100km is also quite good for the hole fleet with a little bit of coordination. I was in fleets where any sniper was a raven, cnr or golem and they actually where quite quick with the site times. The main problem is that if it comes to contests(fleet vs fleet in a battle who does the most damage in the site to get the isk) the delayed damage can often cost you the victory, leading most FCs towards the opinion that missile ships should be not part of her fleet.

However with the new changes to CMs, some will probably change her opinion, since ships like the navy raven can push now a lot more dps at max sniper range than turret ships can. The best thing would be probably to bring both ships with you and ask the FC what they want.

As for the hull, I would look into the raven or CNR, since the missile speed bonus applies your damage a lot quicker, you have to count less volleys and it even buffs dps on the target, especially on the CNR what got perfect bonuses to apply damage at a range beyond painter optimal, while the resistance bonus of the SNI is nice, it isn't that important compared to better and even more important faster damage application.

The T2 painter isn't better than the meta 4, it just needs more CPU and more cap. T2 cap transfer can be handy by the extra range for bigger gangs, the amount isn't that important(a meta 4 will do the job to).

Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread
Carmen Alistair
Cerebus Syndrome
#283 - 2013-06-07 02:34:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Carmen Alistair
As it turns out, my gunnery support skills are just as good (need to not do this at 5am in the morning) as my missile support skills (all IV). Been playing with Amarrian ships these last few months which means I could actually use a Nightmare.

As a DPS boat I could do this:

[Nightmare, AS-HQ-MOM NM Incursion DPS]
Damage Control II
Tracking Enhancer II
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
EM Ward Field II
Large Shield Extender II
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier

Imperial Navy Mega Pulse Laser, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Imperial Navy Mega Pulse Laser, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Imperial Navy Mega Pulse Laser, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Imperial Navy Mega Pulse Laser, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Large 'Regard' Power Projector
Heavy Diminishing Power System Drain I

Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II
Large Core Defense Field Extender I
Large Core Defense Field Extender I

EHP: 121,826 / Resists: EM:75.9% / TH:72.1% / KIN:72.8% / EXP:77.4%

DPS: 807 / Volley: 3676

Cap lasts 13m27s without the use of the NOS or ET, cap stable at 52~% with NOS


Would the above fit be right for an AS/HQ DPS boat?

Edit:

Poked around some more in EFT, if I change the Pulses to True Sansha Tachyon's, swapped the web for a SeBoII with Range Script, with IN Infrared I get 99+39, 475 dps and 3330 Volley. Not sure that's enough range or dps for a sniper though.
maGz
Hookers and Blackjack II
#284 - 2013-06-07 10:50:42 UTC
You probably already wrote this somewhere so feel free to direct me to that post, but what is the ideal ship for incursions and what should I be looking at for fittings?
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#285 - 2013-06-07 11:32:33 UTC
Carmen Alistair wrote:
Would the above fit be right for an AS/HQ DPS boat?


It's a good start and will probably get you a fleet invite from TVP without to much of a problem. I suggest you get a Energy transfer (As most Nightmare Pilots 'cap buddy' to keep their guns running), and also bring as good of a MWD as you can afford, AS sites don't need them but more and more fleets are using MWD's to get in position so the rats spawn at optimal for your specific guns.

And keep training those gun skills, to get access to many of the other communities you will need T2 turrets.

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#286 - 2013-06-07 11:44:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Goldiiee
maGz wrote:
You probably already wrote this somewhere so feel free to direct me to that post, but what is the ideal ship for incursions and what should I be looking at for fittings?

Most communities will look at your guns first so whatever you can fly, with the best turrets you can use is a good place to start. The predominant ships I see are Pirate Faction BS's (Mach, Nightmare, Vindi) of course anything that can field DPS and stay alive will at least get you started.

That being said, at peak times there is a prolific amount of super skilled shiny ships for FC's to chose from so getting into the chats and asking what would get you a fleet invite is still the best way to get started.

Get on some of the channels and ask around for what they fly. There is usually someone in each channel willing to help (And usually more than one troll willing to 'Troll'). I am confident that there will be more fitting advice and ship suggestions than most people can digest in one sitting, but it should be bale to narrow down what works for you and benefits the Fleet.

IMO, My Artillery Mach is the best ship for incursions and everyone else is there just to stare in awe at my DPS. I would do the sites solo if CPP would lower the min member payout. Big smile.... Possibly a little Sarcasm.

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
maGz
Hookers and Blackjack II
#287 - 2013-06-07 18:45:17 UTC
Ok. So I guess it's a matter of preference then as long as I choose between the three mentioned.
Aurora RedNova
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#288 - 2013-06-08 07:47:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Aurora RedNova
Any possibilities that cruise missile ships will get more interesting for incursions now?
I mean even a supertanked Scorp navy easily gets Mach dps now with a lot more range and Raven Navy does A LOT more damage than a mach now.
For example my Scorp Navy with all resis above 85% (average at 87%), 2 tech2 rigors and flare rig plus tech2 cruises even does slightly over 1000dps at 100km.

I am really interested in incursions but I am a missile toon :P
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#289 - 2013-06-08 08:00:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Goldiiee
Aurora, Missile boats are used by several groups TVP being the first one that comes to mind, so you can get into a fleet without too much of a problem.

As far as DPS goes a well fit Incursion Mach will do 1000DPS (reduced due to falloff) out to 140km instantly, so the only perceived problem is the flight time of missiles, as they are traveling the Turrets takes the kill and the missile shot is wasted. This wouldn't matter at all but the Contesting in HQ sites is at an all time high, so more often than not the winner is decided when forming the fleet, not when in site hitting F1.

But don't get discouraged, there are plenty of fleets and room for all types till the E-Peen'ers get in there :) .

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Anya Klibor
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#290 - 2013-06-09 00:50:09 UTC
I'm enjoying the DIN and ISN drama, personally. I think it's amusing that one ISN fleet (or anyone!) contests a DIN fleet once means DIN shuts down the entire Incursion area by killing the mothership.

Leadership is something you learn. Maybe one day, you'll learn that.
Maloreas Denan
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#291 - 2013-06-09 06:21:18 UTC
What does mean "incursion is popped" ??
Sahriah BloodStone
State War Academy
Caldari State
#292 - 2013-06-09 11:26:52 UTC
An incursion being 'popped' is a term referring to the end of an incursion site. An incursion site ends when the mothership is destroyed or 'popped' and a new incursion site can spawn anywhere from a couple hours to 3 days afterwards.

Hey goldiiee

I am posting here on behalf of an incursion community that would like to be listed

Road-Kill Incursion community
Ingame Channel: Road-kill
Type: Vanguard shield fleets (looking to expand to assaults as we grow)
Comms: Teamspeak 3
Timezone: US

About Us
Road-kill is a new player friendly incursion community. We frequently take new players as early as 3 months and teach them what to train for and how to fly incursions. We highly encourage players to upgrade their ships as they advance and make money and many of us fly pirate battleships.

We have dedicated and experienced Fleet commanders and Logi commanders as well as OGB's (off grid boosters) and boast a very good safety record with no lost ships (excluding pilots warping into wrong sites on there own fault)

Ships: - We are happy to help with fits and have a mailing list
Prefered: Nightmare, Machariel, Vindicator, Scimitar
Allowed: Rokh, Maelstrom, Hyperion, Megathron, Loki, Basilisk. Missile ships like the raven/scorp/rattlesnake are allowed but we would prefer you to fly a turret-based ship.

Anyone looking to join this community is welcome to join our ingame channel or evemail myself :)

Thanks for the awesome thread Goldiiee

Sahriah Bloodstone

No.Mercy // Triumvirate

"Never underestimate your enemy or disrespect its abilities. If you do, you shall become the hunted "
Scaara Koraka
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#293 - 2013-06-09 12:31:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Scaara Koraka
So Im not on the right character but.

Ive been looking at maybe running incursions for isk.
The only problem is that the pilot can only fly a tengu (Pretty well)
Are there any incursion corps that will have tengu's in there fleets?
Also I tried joining ICU public and the TVP channels because you said they still use T3's but I couldnt join either channel.
Im looking for more EU based TZ's btw.

Edit: Also theres doesnt seem to be many incursion corps? Whys that?
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#294 - 2013-06-09 13:42:40 UTC
Sahriah BloodStone; Thanks for the Introduction to Road-Kill. I have added you community with a link to your post in the OP.

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#295 - 2013-06-09 13:55:26 UTC
Scaara Koraka wrote:
So Im not on the right character but.

Ive been looking at maybe running incursions for isk.
The only problem is that the pilot can only fly a tengu (Pretty well)
Are there any incursion corps that will have tengu's in there fleets?
Also I tried joining ICU public and the TVP channels because you said they still use T3's but I couldnt join either channel.
Im looking for more EU based TZ's btw.

Edit: Also theres doesnt seem to be many incursion corps? Whys that?


Haven't had a tengu in my fleet in a long time, but I did see a tengu in a fleet I was contesting last night so I am fairly confident they are still X'ing up and getting in.

When you say you couldn't join their channel do you mean it wouldn't let you connect to them or ??, I have seen a few people have problems before but it was usually due to a corp or alliance ban imposed by the channel moderator on some of the more prolific fleet greifers (OGB ganks, incursion fleet harassment, things like that) As far as I know I don't think Test has a ban in those channels but I will ask today just to be sure.

Incursion corps were tried but failed, the primary problem was War Decs kept corps from flying with anyone not in their corp, and it olny take one or two contests to have some anrgy person War dec your corp to keep you from taking 'Their' ISK.

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Anya Klibor
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#296 - 2013-06-09 22:25:30 UTC
Aurora RedNova wrote:
Any possibilities that cruise missile ships will get more interesting for incursions now?
I mean even a supertanked Scorp navy easily gets Mach dps now with a lot more range and Raven Navy does A LOT more damage than a mach now.
For example my Scorp Navy with all resis above 85% (average at 87%), 2 tech2 rigors and flare rig plus tech2 cruises even does slightly over 1000dps at 100km.

I am really interested in incursions but I am a missile toon :P


On paper, the Scorpion Navy Issue and Raven Navy Issue are terrific ships for PvE (and even PvP!). But it stops on paper, sadly.

The ships themselves have delayed DPS, meaning the Machariel and Nightmare can hit the enemy and alpha it, and the missile boats are still waiting for their missiles to land. Cruises got a velocity upgrade, but it doesn't change the fact that the DPS is not immediate. With that being said, a Torp Golem is not exactly bad: faction TPs with Marauders 5 make it a viable ship, if only for support.

As for the person asking about the Tengu: same issue applies. Missiles are not immediate.

Leadership is something you learn. Maybe one day, you'll learn that.
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#297 - 2013-06-11 22:27:09 UTC
Bumped for access

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
amhain reoite
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#298 - 2013-06-13 09:10:26 UTC
I am starting a new toon to do more exciting PVE, as this one is an indy toon.

After reading up a bit it seems like gallente might be a good starting point. But even from there, at what point would he be viable in any incursion fleet, even Scouts. would a T2 blaster fit Catalyst be any worth in a scout fleet? Or would it be worth to start some where else as Minnie seems decent as well.

And with that are there any reputable corps/FC's that do starting Incursion fleets for that lvl of skill.
Or would it just be more "sensible" to do missions till i have the SP for even a basic t2 fit Mega?
Calgrissom Torvec
#299 - 2013-06-13 13:35:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Calgrissom Torvec
Goldiiee wrote:
Aurora, Missile boats are used by several groups TVP being the first one that comes to mind, so you can get into a fleet without too much of a problem.

As far as DPS goes a well fit Incursion Mach will do 1000DPS (reduced due to falloff) out to 140km instantly, so the only perceived problem is the flight time of missiles, as they are traveling the Turrets take kill and the missile shot is wasted. This wouldn't matter at all but the Contesting in HQ sites is at an all time high, so more often than not the winner is decided when forming the fleet, not when in site hitting F1.

But don't get discouraged, there are plenty of fleets and room for all types till the E-Peen'ers get in there :) .



As far as missile boats go TVP has been trying to move away from them. If you X up with one during one of the more busy times of the day you might not be chosen as many FCs will want you to fit torps. When you have 5 Guns boats and 1 missile boat X up for 1 slot I can promise you the missile boat isn't going to have priority.

Not to say you will never get into fleet with one (im not and FC just been around awhile) I know for the most part we have put the Tengu out to pasture since its last nerf and I doubt one of those will be getting a fleet slot unless there is really no one else Xing at the time.

Also I agree with goldiiee The mach is the ultimate Incursion ship. Nothing like smacking a tower for 27k and popping BS with 15-16k hits while doing 2k M/s. Im known as the TVP mach fanboi and damn proud of it =)


Wanted to add that Warp to Me incursion group is a new community with some very experienced FCs that tend to be a little more kitchen sinky. I don't want to shy anyone away from TVP but they might be a bit more friendly to take on a new pilot with a missile fit.
Zeus Zed
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#300 - 2013-06-13 14:09:27 UTC
Goldiiee thank you for the OP.

I too want to get into incursions and have been skilling up for a Maelstrom, which I can now fit with T2s and snipe the hell out of these buggers.

I have been reading a lot on incursions and perhaps the best resource which I came across has been this: http://incursions.nexsoft.de/?mode=guide&sid=1

It explains the requirements to join fleets, and presents all viable options for Incursions.

Problem is, it does not rank the ships according to how often they get picked by FCs, but at least it's good to know that hey, I may have a chance with my Maelstrom and if I'm lucky I might find someone to mentor me as well.

So thanks for the post and I may see you around!

ZZ