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My thoughts on eve and mini-games...
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
#21 - 2013-06-09 08:19:36 UTC
Garresh wrote:
Ris Dnalor wrote:
Garresh wrote:
The discussion of the mini game and optimal strategy has promoted social interaction. I've crossed paths and made contacts with people precisely because I understood the mechanics better, and the exchange of information created a common ground for us in hostile space. Say what you will, but the inclusion of player skill and the fact that it distracts from dscan is forcing player interaction at gunpoint all over new eden right now




While technically true ( the underliney-bits ) it's just another example of new-features added to eve that people help each other learn. -- It has nothing to do with the fact that it's a mini-game.

I could argue whether or not the mini-game requires player skill, but again, that's not what I'm talking about. The fact is if I want to do something in eve, I do not want to have to play mine-craft to accomplish it.


And as far as the distraction, well, it sounds like you're arguing my point. The folks that do enjoy the mini-game, will not continue to do so, if it is as you say that "forced player interaction at gunpoint" is truly happening all over new eden right now.

They might do it for the loot, if it's good enough, but they won't do it for the enjoyment, and they won't do it for social interaction. The social interaction of which you speak is likely not happening DURING the mini-game, unless I misunderstand your definitions of "player-skill" and "distractions".

Thanks for the reply,

Ris Dnalor


Let me put it this way: In 3 years of exploration, I've never gotten attacked in an exploration site before. Last time I died was way back when I was a noob. People TRIED to gank me, but I was d-scanning every 3 seconds while I watched netflix on my second screen. This was stupid, and I readily admit it. But that was what exploration was. The risks were negligible. In many ways they're still low, but for the first time in years, I got attacked in a site just 2 hours ago. I was shitting bricks, as I had about 800 mil in cargo, and that was WITHOUT me watching netflix. My eyes were on the screen. I was dscanning, but the distraction meant I lowered my guard for just a second. Next thing I knew, I had a helios and a hound warp disrupting me.

And that's my point. Odyssey opened new doors to would-be explorers, and gives the hunters and gankers more targets. Although in this case I'm pretty sure my gankers were pissed, cause they didn't have a scram, and I did. Scrammed the helios and MWD'd out at full burn. Lol Anyways, that simply wouldn't happen prior to Odyssey. We'd all be perfectly d-scanning every 3 seconds for the duration of our run, and effectively taking no risks. This is an improvement over the previous system in every way.


Pssst, you forgot to add "and I got the 800 million in the first 20 minutes of scanning". Lol
Garresh
Mackies Raiders
Wild Geese.
#22 - 2013-06-09 08:19:54 UTC
Quote:
Yesterday i spent one hour exploring. Man, it is fast now. Scanned 4 systems, located 3 wormholes, 6 anomalies, 4 gravitic sites... wow. Didn't find any hackable site, though. And all in all, I got like 600,000 ISK because it was 6 anomalies (5 empty) and 4 gravitic sites (all 4 holding carp) and WH... well, i am not doing WH.


It took you an hour to cover 4 systems? I think I found the problem...Roll

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Garresh
Mackies Raiders
Wild Geese.
#23 - 2013-06-09 08:21:20 UTC
Quote:

Pssst, you forgot to add "and I got the 800 million in the first 20 minutes of scanning". Lol


Actually, not gonna lie. I got about 450 mil of the 800 mil in half an hour, and the rest over another 2-3 hours.

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Bellatren Star
Doomheim
#24 - 2013-06-09 08:29:35 UTC
It was the hacking mini game that got me to re-sub it's pretty difficult to over come in null and i love the challenge of it.

If they removed it back to mod cycling i'd probably un-sub again.

Bellatren Star: - "I have absolutly no idea what's on the other side of that NullSec gate but i'm going to jump my Freighter in anyway! #YOLO!." - Just some provi guy
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#25 - 2013-06-09 09:05:43 UTC
Garresh wrote:
Quote:

Pssst, you forgot to add "and I got the 800 million in the first 20 minutes of scanning". Lol


Actually, not gonna lie. I got about 450 mil of the 800 mil in half an hour, and the rest over another 2-3 hours.


Cool story, bro.
Haulie Berry
#26 - 2013-06-09 09:18:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Haulie Berry
As a fairly avid explorer, I really like the new system.

My favorite part about it, though, is the whining from people who have come to believe that they were somehow entitled to the push button -> receive bacon of the old activate-module-and-wait system.

Also, this is funny:

Quote:
Because at the end of the old module cycle you got a loot container, now the loot spews out and disintegrates...


If you're not getting much more loot than you were in pre-odyssey, you're doing something wrong.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#27 - 2013-06-09 09:42:25 UTC
Haulie Berry wrote:
As a fairly avid explorer, I really like the new system.

My favorite part about it, though, is the whining from people who have come to believe that they were somehow entitled to the push button -> receive bacon of the old activate-module-and-wait system.

Also, this is funny:

Quote:
Because at the end of the old module cycle you got a loot container, now the loot spews out and disintegrates...


If you're not getting much more loot than you were in pre-odyssey, you're doing something wrong.


Get/buy sealed container, hack it/sell it elsewhere. Add a tiered system for containers (alpha being easy to crack but meh, omega being awful difficult to crack but jackpot) and hit casual friendliness gold.
Xavier Liche
ACME Mineral and Gas
#28 - 2013-06-09 14:19:03 UTC
Bellatren Star wrote:
It was the hacking mini game that got me to re-sub it's pretty difficult to over come in null and i love the challenge of it.

If they removed it back to mod cycling i'd probably un-sub again.


A fool and his money are soon parted, if you like childish puzzles you could have gotten 1000s for free on your phone...
Morganta
The Greater Goon
#29 - 2013-06-09 15:31:46 UTC
mini-games have their place and can be fun but CCP has got the entire concept wrong imo

a mini-game shouldn't be a replacement for a good game mechanic or even a bad one, a mini game should be a stand alone diversion for those with nothing better to do at the moment

likes having blackjack and poker in station or something to that effect

I'm actually kind of torn with this new mechanic, on one hand I think its silly and ponderous to make DSE players have to slog through a mini-game to accomplish their goals, but at the same time I like the thought of people being so involved in this poop that they fail to notice combat probes or that sudden spike in local
Silvetica Dian
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2013-06-09 16:28:36 UTC
What amazes me is this.
If as this OP , the numerous supporters in this thread and the myriad other indentical threads are correct why is it i am seeing about 3 times as many scanners as i did previously and about ten times as many in low sec?
It is almost as if these people know something that the whiners on the forums don't.......

Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85
Lexmana
#31 - 2013-06-09 16:35:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Lexmana
Morganta wrote:
mini-games have their place and can be fun but CCP has got the entire concept wrong imo

a mini-game shouldn't be a replacement for a good game mechanic or even a bad one, a mini game should be a stand alone diversion for those with nothing better to do at the moment

likes having blackjack and poker in station or something to that effect

I'm actually kind of torn with this new mechanic, on one hand I think its silly and ponderous to make DSE players have to slog through a mini-game to accomplish their goals, but at the same time I like the thought of people being so involved in this poop that they fail to notice combat probes or that sudden spike in local

Havent done too many of them yet but I think the hacking game is quite appropriate and fits well into the task. And as you say it distracts from dscan. I see that as a feature and it makes it more dangerous for the hacker. I am not particularly found of the loot spew yet but I guess I will adapt and it does have the same distracting feature.
Indalecia
#32 - 2013-06-09 18:12:36 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
If the player base does not want mini games, it should not RMT and support botting in any way.

Overall I disagree with the OP for more detailed reasons which are well echoed by others in these forums.

Brainless point and click is coming to an end. Thank God.


And you really think the new exploration mini-game is not brainless?

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Haulie Berry
#33 - 2013-06-09 18:30:15 UTC
Indalecia wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
If the player base does not want mini games, it should not RMT and support botting in any way.

Overall I disagree with the OP for more detailed reasons which are well echoed by others in these forums.

Brainless point and click is coming to an end. Thank God.


And you really think the new exploration mini-game is not brainless?



It's not intended to be particularly hard. It's intended to force the explorer to spend a bit of time exposed and distracted from relentlessly spamming dscan. It does this pretty well.

There's also an element of tension when you've found a particularly valuable can, especially after you fail the first hack attempt. Shocked
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2013-06-09 18:39:26 UTC
While the new system is interesting, the hordes of new explorers guzzling a data and relic site as it spawns means that the bottom is falling out of the market for decryptors and blue salvage. At some point money earned will be so bad that the new explorers will move to greener pastures (hopefully)
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Utremi Fasolasi
La Dolce Vita
#35 - 2013-06-09 18:41:16 UTC
PI is a minigame and works fine in EVE.
Garresh
Mackies Raiders
Wild Geese.
#36 - 2013-06-09 19:09:20 UTC
Indalecia wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
If the player base does not want mini games, it should not RMT and support botting in any way.

Overall I disagree with the OP for more detailed reasons which are well echoed by others in these forums.

Brainless point and click is coming to an end. Thank God.


And you really think the new exploration mini-game is not brainless?


My hacking skills have not improved since odyssey. Yet with each passing day I lose less cans to "luck" as I discover more nuances to the distribution pattern of the board.

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Capt Tenguru10
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#37 - 2013-06-09 19:16:54 UTC
the hacking mini game is a joke, way too hard. not enough balance. the can wins 99% of the time. and the loot spew is terrible it disapears to fast. bad idea ccp just bad

http://i.imgur.com/EYX5Zi7.gif
Haulie Berry
#38 - 2013-06-09 19:34:15 UTC
Capt Tenguru10 wrote:
the hacking mini game is a joke, way too hard. not enough balance. the can wins 99% of the time.


You sound bad. I almost never pop a can.
Ris Dnalor
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2013-06-10 02:57:55 UTC
Garresh wrote:
Ris Dnalor wrote:
--[quote=Garresh]--


Let me put it this way: In 3 years of exploration, I've never gotten attacked in an exploration site before. Last time I died was way back when I was a noob. People TRIED to gank me, but I was d-scanning every 3 seconds while I watched netflix on my second screen. This was stupid, and I readily admit it. But that was what exploration was. The risks were negligible. In many ways they're still low, but for the first time in years, I got attacked in a site just 2 hours ago. I was shitting bricks, as I had about 800 mil in cargo, and that was WITHOUT me watching netflix. My eyes were on the screen. I was dscanning, but the distraction meant I lowered my guard for just a second. Next thing I knew, I had a helios and a hound warp disrupting me.

And that's my point. Odyssey opened new doors to would-be explorers, and gives the hunters and gankers more targets. Although in this case I'm pretty sure my gankers were pissed, cause they didn't have a scram, and I did. Scrammed the helios and MWD'd out at full burn. Lol Anyways, that simply wouldn't happen prior to Odyssey. We'd all be perfectly d-scanning every 3 seconds for the duration of our run, and effectively taking no risks. This is an improvement over the previous system in every way.

And one more thing: Risk is part of the fun. Exploration was fun before, but it lost all sense of risk very early on. I only did it because I enjoyed the wandering nature of it. Now that I'm actively at risk and getting shot at, I'm having WAY more fun than before. Forget isk income(even if it's better than before), and focus on simple gameplay. I actually feel moderately challenged again, as I have to go into null now. Low has lost some of it's value, but null is now accessible, which balances it out. Simply having isk rain from the skies isn't fun. I want to work for it. I want to get shot at. I want to be hunted. If I'm not at risk, then PvE simply isn't enjoyable to me.



Good story. Nice one on the scram :)

I can now see your point clearly, though I can't say I agree with it. I will never enjoy playing a mini-game in eve, and while I'm not opposed to some, I fear they may overdo it, based on what I've seen from the fanfest video... If all mundane tasks become minigames, well... . Have you seen the "future" ideas for mining spray and what are your thoughts on that or the "minecraft" version of mining?


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  • Qolde
Garresh
Mackies Raiders
Wild Geese.
#40 - 2013-06-10 04:40:24 UTC
Ris Dnalor wrote:

Good story. Nice one on the scram :)

I can now see your point clearly, though I can't say I agree with it. I will never enjoy playing a mini-game in eve, and while I'm not opposed to some, I fear they may overdo it, based on what I've seen from the fanfest video... If all mundane tasks become minigames, well... . Have you seen the "future" ideas for mining spray and what are your thoughts on that or the "minecraft" version of mining?



No idea. I like minecraft, but I don't want to see that kind of stuff in eve, no. I think that adding a minigame to mining is okay, but they should draw the line there. It's really only mining and hacking that are sorely lacking any interaction, and everything else has more than enough to compensate. There's still going to be tons of crap in eve that doesn't require minigames, even within exploration. Combat sites and plexes, for instance.

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