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Need help selecting PvP focus
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Parvana
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-06-09 03:12:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Parvana
A friend and I have been carebearing missions for a while now and we finally have enough ISK saved up to afford to lose it in PvP. The thing is, we are not certain the best type of PvP to focus on that meets our goals. We have looked in Red v Blue, faction warfare, null sec PvP corps, and wormholes but are having a hard time deciding what best fits our needs and constraints. In no particular order, these are:

- We use alts to run L4 missions to fund ship loss. They are a necessary evil.
- We are new to PvP but not to Eve
- We would prefer to fly cheaper ships rather than T2/T3 ships to keep mandatory missioning down to pay for replacements
- We are available via voice chat
- We are not always available at a given time/date. Our calendars are a bit fluid so we can't guarantee we will always be on at a certain time
- We would prefer spontaneous combat and roams rather than glorified duels where both sides agree to meet to fight
- We are not interested in ganking, gatecamping, carebear tears or whatever
- Our PvP alts are low skilled but training full time in combat skills (~10m SP atm)
- We would be glad to do fleet ops and work a given role.We have our preferences but wouldn't mind tackling or logistics or whatever else is needed.

Edit:

- Neither of us desire to multibox / run a scout along with our main

So, which type of corp/situation should we look given the above?
Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations
#2 - 2013-06-09 03:19:20 UTC
First of all, you probably don't have enough isk yet in reality. See my bio. If you can follow the rules, I can help you start off with a respectible balance.

See Bio for isk doubling rules. If you didn't read bio, chances are you funded those who did.
handbanana
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3 - 2013-06-09 03:23:24 UTC
Erotica 1 wrote:
First of all, you probably don't have enough isk yet in reality. See my bio. If you can follow the rules, I can help you start off with a respectible balance.



People still fall for that old scam? Shocked

“It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.”    -Jack Handy
Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations
#4 - 2013-06-09 03:27:29 UTC
with others it is a scam and yes they fall for it.

With me, it's the real deal. Ask around.

See Bio for isk doubling rules. If you didn't read bio, chances are you funded those who did.
Parvana
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#5 - 2013-06-09 03:27:34 UTC
Erotica 1 wrote:
First of all, you probably don't have enough isk yet in reality. See my bio. If you can follow the rules, I can help you start off with a respectible balance.


Heh. You likely have missed the bullet in the OP where I mention we are not new to Eve. Go back to Jita or whatever hell hole you call home. kthxbye
Francine Diderot
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2013-06-09 04:16:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Francine Diderot
Parvana wrote:
A friend and I have been carebearing missions for a while now and we finally have enough ISK saved up to afford to lose it in PvP. The thing is, we are not certain the best type of PvP to focus on that meets our goals. We have looked in Red v Blue, faction warfare, null sec PvP corps, and wormholes but are having a hard time deciding what best fits our needs and constraints. In no particular order, these are:

- We use alts to run L4 missions to fund ship loss. They are a necessary evil.
- We are new to PvP but not to Eve
- We would prefer to fly cheaper ships rather than T2/T3 ships to keep mandatory missioning down to pay for replacements
- We are available via voice chat
- We are not always available at a given time/date. Our calendars are a bit fluid so we can't guarantee we will always be on at a certain time
- We would prefer spontaneous combat and roams rather than glorified duels where both sides agree to meet to fight
- We are not interested in ganking, gatecamping, carebear tears or whatever
- Our PvP alts are low skilled but training full time in combat skills (~10m SP atm)
- We would be glad to do fleet ops and work a given role.We have our preferences but wouldn't mind tackling or logistics or whatever else is needed.

Edit:

- Neither of us desire to multibox / run a scout along with our main

So, which type of corp/situation should we look given the above?


Can you identify an opponents likely fit with a glance at his guns?
Can you, on the fly, know the likely tactics that will be used based on your assumption of the fit?
Do you know when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em, so to speak?
Do you know how tracking, falloff, and damage likelyhood work in the game?
Do you know why cruisers have a hard time hitting frigates? I mean specifically?
Can you tell the difference between signature resolution and signature radius?
How do those two work together?

These are important questions. You learn the answers by doing, not by collecting skillpoints. Before the answers to these questions are in your bones, it is unwise to fly more specialised and more expensive ships. You gain experience by starting low, learning to walk before you learn to run.

This is why veterans tell newbies to fly a hundred rifters first, and get them all killed. This in order to learn the answer to the above questions, and many more.

So, to your question. In order to begin to pvp, you must pass through the stage of the hundred exploding rifters. That is where you begin. It is an essential phase, and not because it is a humbling phase but because it is a learning experience.
Parvana
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#7 - 2013-06-09 04:27:27 UTC
Francine Diderot wrote:


So, to your question. In order to begin to pvp, you must pass through the stage of the hundred exploding rifters. That is where you begin. It is an essential phase, and not because it is a humbling phase but because it is a learning experience.


Um, exactly? The point is, where to begin losing rifters. What sort of corp or approach is the best given the constraints above?
darmwand
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
#8 - 2013-06-09 04:33:48 UTC
Francine Diderot wrote:

This is why veterans tell newbies to fly a hundred rifters first, and get them all killed. This in order to learn the answer to the above questions, and many more.


This. Depending on your preference and skills you may use different ships (Merlin, Tristan, Incursus, Tormentor, ...) but indeed, buy a bunch of t1 frigates, roam through low-sec and lose them all. Ideally you would record your fights (using something like FRAPS) and watch them afterwards, see what you did wrong and how you could possibly have beaten your opponent. Plus people in low-sec are usually quite helpful and most of them will tell you what you could have done better after a fight.

You will learn about your ship's and guns' strengths and weaknesses as your hangar clears out.

"The pen is mightier than the sword if the sword is very short, and the pen is very sharp."
darmwand
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
#9 - 2013-06-09 04:35:11 UTC
Parvana wrote:

Um, exactly? The point is, where to begin losing rifters. What sort of corp or approach is the best given the constraints above?


Jump to low-sec, roam as far as you get, repeat :)

I would recommend the FW areas since they are typically quite well-populated.

"The pen is mightier than the sword if the sword is very short, and the pen is very sharp."
I Need PLEX
Doomheim
#10 - 2013-06-09 06:04:15 UTC
Parvana wrote:
Francine Diderot wrote:


So, to your question. In order to begin to pvp, you must pass through the stage of the hundred exploding rifters. That is where you begin. It is an essential phase, and not because it is a humbling phase but because it is a learning experience.


Um, exactly? The point is, where to begin losing rifters. What sort of corp or approach is the best given the constraints above?


I would suggest joining Brave Newbies Inc. for anyone wishing to go from carebear to killer
Neuntausend
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2013-06-09 19:57:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Neuntausend
There is no limited number of "types" of pvp. You have set your parameters already, now create your own pvp type from it. Where you do it is completely up to you, but you have to start somewhere. I recommend just trying everything at least once. Play canflipping- and station-games in a tradehub next to you, suicide gank miners, roam through low- and nullsec, fly into the next c2 wormhole you find. and do it in your pace. You will die a lot. Talk to the people who killed you, ask them why you died and how you could have avoided it - most will gladly explain their game to you. That way you will learn for yourself where you want to be and maybe even find a corp in the process.
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
#12 - 2013-06-09 20:09:56 UTC
Do like most, go to Provi and establish contact with CVA and the Citadel channel.

Find out who the reds are, run patrols. The Not Red Don't shoot - NRDS - policy might mean you lose some ships but you never feel guilty about shooting someone. If you aren't a holder, you have no dedication to be on for fleet calls. Simply roam and patrol. The fights will happen.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#13 - 2013-06-09 20:12:10 UTC
Parvana wrote:
Francine Diderot wrote:


So, to your question. In order to begin to pvp, you must pass through the stage of the hundred exploding rifters. That is where you begin. It is an essential phase, and not because it is a humbling phase but because it is a learning experience.


Um, exactly? The point is, where to begin losing rifters. What sort of corp or approach is the best given the constraints above?

Just head out of highsec & look for people to shoot. Alternatively if you'd like to get paid to lose ships, contact me ingame.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Yokai Mitsuhide
Doomheim
#14 - 2013-06-09 20:16:51 UTC
Erotica 1 wrote:
First of all, you probably don't have enough isk yet in reality. See my bio. If you can follow the rules, I can help you start off with a respectible balance.


Take your scamming elsewhere...
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#15 - 2013-06-09 20:33:06 UTC
Brave newbies, Faction warfare, R-V-B are all great options.

As Skydell said Providence is a lot of fun, join CVA-diplo if you want to base yourself there. Its a lot easier if you can get into CVA or one of the holder alliances http://providenceregion.blogspot.com/ We don't force members to form up for fleets but there's usually a fleet or 10 to choose from.

Mallak's offer is probably serious and could be a great way to get started. Solstice project has made similar offers for players to help him with piracy.

A lot of pvp is evading those fights that you know you will lose. Maybe start missioning / scanning in lowsec and learning how to stay safe there.

Best of luck whatever you choose.
Sunshyn LaBlond
Heathen Souls
#16 - 2013-06-09 22:35:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Sunshyn LaBlond
In a word--- Piracy.

Your description of your play style is exactly that of most of the pirates I knew. The top dogs in most of the pirate corps I associated with on my other toon (and briefly with this one) were all space rich industrialists with their mains and funded pirate corps more as a 'fight club' than the RP notion of pirates. Often they are the ones seeding the local markets with PvP goods so both their own chums and those they kill end up buying from their mains.

The way they all got really good at PvP was to simply be able to fund losses. When you can afford to lose 20 Rifters a day, experience at PvP comes pretty quickly. When you sell those Rifters to 20 other guys losing 20 a day-- the cycle is set to both get rich and shoot people in the face 'for a living'.

Sticking with small hulls and weapons is the favored policy of pirates (they're cheap) and have easily maxed skills. You'll have the same skill level as the jedi in no time, then you just need the practice with your new pirate pals.

Piracy gets a bad rep but in reality doesn't actually 'pay'. Ransoms are fairly rare, much less one that would even cover your ammo and repair costs. Thus most full time pirate toons I knew were merely PvP alts of industrial players. They rarely care about the ships they fly, and often end a boring roam by shooting one another just for giggles.

Sounds like a perfect fit for you.
Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations
#17 - 2013-06-09 22:37:55 UTC
Parvana wrote:
Erotica 1 wrote:
First of all, you probably don't have enough isk yet in reality. See my bio. If you can follow the rules, I can help you start off with a respectible balance.


Heh. You likely have missed the bullet in the OP where I mention we are not new to Eve. Go back to Jita or whatever hell hole you call home. kthxbye


No I didn't miss that- just pointing out that most people underestimate how much isk they may need.

Before you lump me in with scammers, you should ask around first instead of making a fool out of yourself throwing guesses out as fact.

Now, in regards to the pvp topic more directly, have you considered safaris?

See Bio for isk doubling rules. If you didn't read bio, chances are you funded those who did.
Hessian Arcturus
Doomheim
#18 - 2013-06-10 01:24:04 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Parvana wrote:
Francine Diderot wrote:


So, to your question. In order to begin to pvp, you must pass through the stage of the hundred exploding rifters. That is where you begin. It is an essential phase, and not because it is a humbling phase but because it is a learning experience.


Um, exactly? The point is, where to begin losing rifters. What sort of corp or approach is the best given the constraints above?

Just head out of highsec & look for people to shoot. Alternatively if you'd like to get paid to lose ships, contact me ingame.


Paid to lose ships....how does that one work? I have a buddy I have been roaming with and we have just been going to lowsec so he can pick fights and lose ships to learn how to pvp... So let me know these details via mail and ill pass on the details to him...

It's human nature to want to explore. To find your line and go beyond it. The only limit, is the one you set yourself.
Amarra Mandalin
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2013-06-10 02:34:46 UTC
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
Brave newbies, Faction warfare, R-V-B are all great options.

As Skydell said Providence is a lot of fun, join CVA-diplo if you want to base yourself there. Its a lot easier if you can get into CVA or one of the holder alliances http://providenceregion.blogspot.com/ We don't force members to form up for fleets but there's usually a fleet or 10 to choose from.

Mallak's offer is probably serious and could be a great way to get started. Solstice project has made similar offers for players to help him with piracy.

A lot of pvp is evading those fights that you know you will lose. Maybe start missioning / scanning in lowsec and learning how to stay safe there.

Best of luck whatever you choose.


Good advice here.
Ryu Ibarazaki
Doomheim
#20 - 2013-06-10 04:09:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Ryu Ibarazaki
Roaming in low sec is nice in that you don't have to deal with warp bubbles. Also there's less of a chance that your name gets mentioned on alliance/coalition intel channels; which can cause your potential targets to scatter away from the light of liberating explosions.

Want to play in W-Space? You still can. Same with Null. No problems, all easily reachable thanks to your new low sec lifestyle. I know you said 'no tear collecting' BUT if you ever change your mind... hey high sec is right next door. I myself enjoy the occasional trip into Empire Space to ninja salvage lvl 4 mission runners.

If you do decide to stay in high sec, I'd recommend RvB. I hang out on their forums from time to time and the folks that run things are good people.
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