Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Getting a little boring having solo ships wander around and hotdropping 10+ guys onto solo cruisers. I think if a ship lights a cyno it should not be able to commit any hostile actions. Should be easy enough to make the ship have a maximum lockable target value of 0 when a cynosural module is activated. Gives a few seconds to try and warp off before getting blobbed.
It wouldn't have much effect on dropping into an engaged fight either as things are already tackled, but it will slightly negate the guys that only want risk free kills and never take fleets on roams to hunt targets for fear of running into a similar sized fleet that spotted them. "Alright I'm going to lose. Cyno lit" is far too common.
Some guys will literally go roaming on unaffiliated alts looking for fights, and as soon as something geos wrong they will bridge in all their toons over in dps alpha ships and stomp up. Usually if there's a drop as soon as the fight engages the tackled ship is dead before other guys that were already in system even land meaning the best way to pad a killboard is to sit on a titan, and maybe play another game until it's time to play eve for a few minutes.

Hotdropping is the instant action button for eve where you have a group of guys humping a titan for hours on end and then bashing their heads against their keyboards for 10 seconds.

If we provided our own intel through effort alone, hot dropping would not exist.

It's not your fault, do not misunderstand. The bar was lowered on all sides, forcing everyone to use it.
It also means tactics are forced to work around it too.

Hot Dropping: Bridging is intended to bypass reinforced blockades and travel time. Here, it has been fine tuned to avoid advertising the presence of a fleet to the free intel tool as well by delaying the easily recognizable population spike till the last possible moment. The intention is to deny the warning local provides, although it still reports the presence of the cyno boat enough to be associated with AFK Cloaking instead.
Quite simply, while PvE pilots would never resume regular activities with a hostile fleet present, they are sometimes willing to gamble over whether a cloaked vessel represents that level of threat at a given time.

Hot dropping dies the moment a hunted pilot cannot effortlessly become aware of a population spike n local.
That is the only change needed.

That cyno has no tactical value that cannot be achieved by more sensible means, except when local is reporting everything.

Without local: Opening a cyno near a hostile ship is not advised. The hostile can fire on the cyno ship, or alert other vessels close enough to respond quickly. Incoming vessels by jumping or bridging will be loading the system while being fired on by prepared vessels.
Summary, you brought a mobile gate to the ones most motivated to camp it.

With local: The cyno pilot has at a glance complete intel on all ships present. No ambush using ships already in system can surprise the pilot due to this, so he can avoid risky situations. Also, the tactical advantage of delaying the warning local gives due to a population spike of PvP ships can be delayed to the last possible moment.
Summary, you have the gate ready, and local tells you when it is safest to use it.

Explain why that is a good thing.

Show your working.

What part do you want explained?

Why hotdropping is bad. Why we shouldn't be able to kill ratters, lone caps, small gangs and the like. Why smaller groups shouldn't be able to jump on disorganised larger groups, take down something expensive and get out quickly. Why dumb people jumping unscouted to cyno beacons should be invulnerable. Why dropping a gang on a gatecamp without getting scouted first is bad.


Where the cyno touched you. Show us on the doll.

Two things:

One, it is not flawless. It only has a chance if the PvE pilot chooses to expose themselves, and all other factors are correct.

Two, PvE pilots already have a "flawless" intel source giving them an absolute ability to avoid hostiles, so long as they make proper preparations and don't mess up.

One flawless balances the other flawless.

It's a balance and an answer for the ease to lock and secure systems in null. And actually is fundamentally the only risk for PVE in sov null.

In the last years changes were made to make null safer fir farming and to favourite the defenders/holders and this fossilized everything there.
Now nerfing this mechanics (again, the ONLY risk in some regions) without a major redesign of other mechanics would simply make these areas de facto 100% safe.

While the rest of EVE accept and deal with some risk (often higher than this) without asking to change mechanics, is part of the game.

Then, getting ganked and not having a chance to do anything can be frustrating, but is frustrating always, also for a solo people running in a bubled gatecamp. Again, it's part of the game.

I really wish we could get spoiler-tags for this forum -_-.
Please snip post if you quote.







The OP can certainly speak for himself but I think the situation was about just having one person versus a limitless and thus "massive" emergence of foes just from one cyno alone. Regarding my point of view, it is just so that most of the time, the "fights" are just having a massive bumrush.

So basically, it is not surprising to see a random alliance have tons of guys on one end and just phase in waves on you. A common counter-statement such as "you should have backup in the first place vs cyno-guys" is likewise just silly in this case.


I know, I know - one wants to catch a chubby and tasty CNR or whatever expensive-implants player in an even more expensive ship with his pants down. As said, it is difficult to come up with decent suggestions since the actual elements of this "problem" is what makes it so difficult.


I understand completely about the point of catching people with awesome ntel (local, intel channels, etc) as well as the opposition who like it the way it is, as referred to in my first post.

However, as said before, there has to be a row of small changes on both sides - not just nerfing cyno just like that alone. Yes, I know well enough it is about catching people who already see you coming.


Indirectly, I somewhere had the intention of suggesting a change that could make catching big mining vessels easier, but giving the mining vessel player a considerable amount of time to call for help. I did not post it (yet) as I figured it would just be too complicated and would just attract a specific breed of forumusers - though it is quite a simplistic change. This thing I'm relating to is somewhere one of those many little things one could add to this typical cynodebate. But let's not get too fancy with that suggestion of mine.

Point is though that one can actually say that most of the time cyno is just a way to bring in massive forces and just overrun single people. Also, one needs to see things from both sides of the fence. Unfortunately, there are people ingame and in this thread who just see things from one side.


I for one have been and seen both sides.

I'm pretty much "neutral" actually, though I must say that cyno concept is simply too effective and easy to abuse. If there would ever be a change to cyno, I'd immediately toss the suggestions or threads to ensure that the "victim" can actually get caught too (As indirectly hinted in that suggesion of mine above).


For instance, the general mindset of pro-Cyno is " I - or - We can get the guy who has awesome intel". However, nobody seems to see that they are just hording a lot of people in their safe little bubble next to their titan; the same people who say "we are real pvpers" are just alike the scared cats as well, just that they are a bunch on the other side of wormhole about to be opened.


Leaving all the Local-chat intel debate outside,
I'd say that the main problem is that one can just phase pretty much an unlimited amount of players; of course for a given time.

This is what I would suggest - but please note that this must come with a counter-change so that some smell of BALANCE remains:

- Differenciate by different mechanics, such as a PoS-to-PoS system regarding the FTL-infrastructure within constellations;
-> The hotdropping mechanic to a random spot in space could feature a shortlived "stun" for those phasing through the cyno. This would be a minor chance for the victim to perhaps get away after all before 50+ people say "point point, gf".

OR

- Apply a limit to Cyno (or introduce different versions of cyno generators).

-> be it "slots" and limitations to size of ships, OR an amount of "charges" as to just how many people can be phased in. For instance, non-cyno ships can only phase in some four- special cynoships can phase in some seven. The amount of people phase in -> cyno-field dies. Cynoship should have the bonus to cough out another cyno right after.
This would limit the massive influx in the first place, unless the cynoship is whatver sort of "Battleship-sized vessel" that can put in that special generator to perform that hotdrop everybody loves.

-> following such suggestion, would love to see special cynoships introduced to the game; or a set of high/med/low slot modules that are all about this. And of course some rulesets.

These special cynoships could be more tanky and maybe even are formidable tacklers focused on catching somebody but also being able to take some punishment (Yes, that sounds like Recon Ships a bit).


Limited cyno-jumping would make things more tactical as one could not take so many people unless there several cynoships on the field (or just the same one that keeps opening


In the end, though, there has to be a change to the "victims" side (read, a "Berf", a buff-nerf) too so that one can still catch people:

A short version of my berf related to the Miner with awesome intel vs tackler:
- Mining barges/Exhumers and other future sorts of mining vessels must apply the "rightclick->anchor" idea to mine.; deactivating anchor requires some 30secs. Giving time to the tacklers to gank this guy.

- A simpler suggestion would be "Barges etc have a crappier align time"; we're talking like minifreighter style

- Due to this specific Mass/Align Time-nerf, the buff would be that they would get a LOT more eHP to swallow some punishment from the guys who cyno'ed or rushed in; giving the victim some time to escape.

Force projection will (hopefully) get a good whack when they get around to messing with sovereignty proper, they have already participated in discussions on various delays for cyno's so they are at the very least conscious of the problem.

Personally partial to the localized jammer/displacer idea, where a ship (such as commands, to give them more to do than link/dps/tank when forced ongrid) activates the module which hits it with penalties similar to those of HIC's but prevents cyno's on the grid and/or scatters anything that comes through to all four corners of grid.