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Jita Population Limit

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CCP Explorer
C C P
C C P Alliance
#41 - 2013-06-08 15:59:43 UTC
Asptar Monastair wrote:
Oxide Ammar wrote:
CCP Explorer wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Nah. It's a good mix of performance and accessibility as it is.
This.

If we up the limit then Time Dilation starts to kick in more aggressively than it does now. It will with the current limit drop to 80% approx. every 15 minutes on average during peak hour.


Half of jita residents are spamming bots, they are useless and killing the fun for the rest of us. you need to introduce something to keep the traffic flowing.

Idea: first ~30 min docked in Jita is free, next the clock will be ticking and Concord will charge you ISK for staying more. Make the parking fee for someone staying like 6 hrs idle is big to teach people value of time.


Seeing as how markets and contracts and everything is handled on a different node, and chat is on a completely different service altogether, I would say the most work being done by the node would be on the ships in space. So reducing spammers and other docked activities probably wouldn't make much difference. I could be totally wrong though.
You would be absolutely right. Market, contracts and chat are on other nodes. The load in Jita is primarily traffic related, pilots docking/undocking/jumping-in/jumping-out.

Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Senior Development Director | EVE Online // CCP Games | @CCP_Explorer
CCP Explorer
C C P
C C P Alliance
#42 - 2013-06-08 16:00:57 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
CCP Explorer wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Nah. It's a good mix of performance and accessibility as it is.
This.

If we up the limit then Time Dilation starts to kick in more aggressively than it does now. It will with the current limit drop to 80% approx. every 15 minutes on average during peak hour.


Maybe you should do something about spam bots rather than punish people actually trying to play the game. Question
See my reply above, they don't contribute that much to load.

Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Senior Development Director | EVE Online // CCP Games | @CCP_Explorer
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#43 - 2013-06-08 16:02:38 UTC
CCP Explorer wrote:
You would be absolutely right. Market, contracts and chat are on other nodes. The load in Jita is primarily traffic related, pilots docking/undocking/jumping-in/jumping-out.

Sooo… this whole brain-in-a-box thing we've heard about has the potential of being the largest Jita booster in a long while, if you get it to work?
CCP Explorer
C C P
C C P Alliance
#44 - 2013-06-08 16:04:30 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Explorer
pmchem wrote:
CCP Explorer wrote:

If we up the limit then Time Dilation starts to kick in more aggressively than it does now. It will with the current limit drop to 80% approx. every 15 minutes on average during peak hour.


I think a major concern is that the Jita limit before cap or tidi apparently went _down_ with Odyssey's release. Why was this? And will it also affect the number at which fleet fights are tidi'd? Performance should get better, not worse, in a big release... we all hope!
It is known why that is; first of all there is always a different usage profile in Jita in the first week after an expansion. More traffic and since the load is mostly traffic related then we need to lower the cap until the bump of excitement tapers off. Secondly there were changes to logging we did related to the attacks the weekend before Odyssey that we need to optimise. We hope to do that very soon and then the population cap on Jita will return to normal values.

Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Senior Development Director | EVE Online // CCP Games | @CCP_Explorer
CCP Explorer
C C P
C C P Alliance
#45 - 2013-06-08 16:07:50 UTC
Tippia wrote:
CCP Explorer wrote:
You would be absolutely right. Market, contracts and chat are on other nodes. The load in Jita is primarily traffic related, pilots docking/undocking/jumping-in/jumping-out.
Sooo… this whole brain-in-a-box thing we've heard about has the potential of being the largest Jita booster in a long while, if you get it to work?
CCP Veritas is still working on that and, yes, that would be the largest Jita boost in a while and a tremendous boon to coordinated fleet fight jump-ins.

Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Senior Development Director | EVE Online // CCP Games | @CCP_Explorer
Merovee
Gorthaur Legion
Imperium Mordor
#46 - 2013-06-08 16:08:59 UTC
A cap on free hanger space in stations might help spread out the herd. Just thinking out loud. Blink

Empire, the next new world order.
Dave stark
#47 - 2013-06-08 16:10:25 UTC
CCP Explorer wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
CCP Explorer wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Nah. It's a good mix of performance and accessibility as it is.
This.

If we up the limit then Time Dilation starts to kick in more aggressively than it does now. It will with the current limit drop to 80% approx. every 15 minutes on average during peak hour.


Maybe you should do something about spam bots rather than punish people actually trying to play the game. Question
See my reply above, they don't contribute that much to load.


but if you removed local, they'd have no reason to be *in* jita, so that'd lighten the load, surely?
CCP Explorer
C C P
C C P Alliance
#48 - 2013-06-08 16:10:40 UTC
Wes Vyvorant wrote:
Delen Ormand wrote:
Wes Vyvorant wrote:
Ffs ccp just fix jita already. I am not paying to sit at a gate spamming buttons.
I'm guessing you actually are, or you wouldn't have posted this :)
No i gave up, logged off and posted this sitting at the bbq with a beer.
How's Amarr these days? Right now there are 2050 in Jita and 835 in Amarr. We very recently assigned Amarr to better hardware to handle more load.

Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Senior Development Director | EVE Online // CCP Games | @CCP_Explorer
CCP Veritas
C C P
C C P Alliance
#49 - 2013-06-08 16:12:12 UTC
People sitting in station chatting contribute practically zero load to the machine running the solar system.

CCP Veritas - Technical Director - EVE Online
CCP Explorer
C C P
C C P Alliance
#50 - 2013-06-08 16:13:02 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Explorer
Dave Stark wrote:
CCP Explorer wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
CCP Explorer wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Nah. It's a good mix of performance and accessibility as it is.
This.

If we up the limit then Time Dilation starts to kick in more aggressively than it does now. It will with the current limit drop to 80% approx. every 15 minutes on average during peak hour.
Maybe you should do something about spam bots rather than punish people actually trying to play the game. Question
See my reply above, they don't contribute that much to load.
but if you removed local, they'd have no reason to be *in* jita, so that'd lighten the load, surely?
No, the load would stay the same (because it's traffic related) and we would lower the cap accordingly with the number of spambots that would have gone away.

There are X pilots causing load and Y spambots. The cap is at X+Y.

Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Senior Development Director | EVE Online // CCP Games | @CCP_Explorer
Noddy Comet
Lysdexic Agnostics - Thier is no Dog
#51 - 2013-06-08 16:13:43 UTC
CCP Explorer wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Nah. It's a good mix of performance and accessibility as it is.
This.

If we up the limit then Time Dilation starts to kick in more aggressively than it does now. It will with the current limit drop to 80% approx. every 15 minutes on average during peak hour.



So, from this we can gather that the criteria for doing nothing in Jita to help improve it more as a trade hub for people who actually wish to, huh... trade, is it meets the bare bones minimum requirement for being both accessible and performance?

Here's the thing that has bothered me for years about Jita...

Look at Jita cam.

Look at local.

What do we see?

Literally hundreds of docks/undocks per hour vs 20-50+ (at peak times) of BOTS that just sit in local and spam the channel with scams.
I can't remember the last time I logged into Jita and did not immediately block at least 5-10 bot scammers.

If the criteria here is to have Jita accessible as trade hub to ALL who wish to get in and do actual legitimate biznez while it begin accessible and performing at optimal levels, it would appear to be common sense to make it nearly impossible for the system population to be hogged up by some selfish bastages scam-botting the channel for hours on end (which most sane players have already blocked within the first 30 seconds of zoning into the system) and thus freeing up those precious population slots for those who want to fly in, trade goods and fly out again.


/inb4 butthurt Jita scammer alts that will no doubt attack the poster and ignore the post.

[i]"The biggest problem with quotes on the Internet, is that just because it's on the Internet too many believe them to be real" -[/i]Abraham Lincoln's "Berlin Wall" speech at the 1984 Winter Olympics.
Noddy Comet
Lysdexic Agnostics - Thier is no Dog
#52 - 2013-06-08 16:14:42 UTC
CCP Veritas wrote:
People sitting in station chatting contribute practically zero load to the machine running the solar system.



Yet they add to the total population limit, correct?

[i]"The biggest problem with quotes on the Internet, is that just because it's on the Internet too many believe them to be real" -[/i]Abraham Lincoln's "Berlin Wall" speech at the 1984 Winter Olympics.
Dave stark
#53 - 2013-06-08 16:16:03 UTC
CCP Explorer wrote:
No, the load would stay the same (because it's traffic related) and we would lower the cap accordingly with the number of spambots that would have gone away.

There are X pilots causing load and Y spambots. The cap is at X+Y.


ah i see, makes sense.
CCP Explorer
C C P
C C P Alliance
#54 - 2013-06-08 16:20:45 UTC
Noddy Comet wrote:
CCP Veritas wrote:
People sitting in station chatting contribute practically zero load to the machine running the solar system.
Yet they add to the total population limit, correct?
There are X pilots causing load and Y spambots. The cap is at X+Y.

Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Senior Development Director | EVE Online // CCP Games | @CCP_Explorer
Mathias Karsten
Cygni Mira Conglomerate
#55 - 2013-06-08 16:25:37 UTC
Noddy Comet wrote:
CCP Veritas wrote:
People sitting in station chatting contribute practically zero load to the machine running the solar system.



Yet they add to the total population limit, correct?


The population limit takes those docked spammers into account, so if they remove the docked folks, limit is changed accordingly.

ok bye
Condrad Antollare
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2013-06-08 16:29:10 UTC
CCP Explorer wrote:
Noddy Comet wrote:
CCP Veritas wrote:
People sitting in station chatting contribute practically zero load to the machine running the solar system.
Yet they add to the total population limit, correct?
There are X pilots causing load and Y spambots. The cap is at X+Y.


Get a better server? I thought this was a sandbox but apparently the devs are trying to put a hold on economic growth in Jita
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#57 - 2013-06-08 16:44:33 UTC
CCP Explorer wrote:
No, the load would stay the same (because it's traffic related) and we would lower the cap accordingly with the number of spambots that would have gone away.

There are X pilots causing load and Y spambots. The cap is at X+Y.


Since the problem isn't going away as it's a player choice to trade in one place, how about increasing the hardware to compensate for it? More blades since it's traffic related and not data?

If not more hardware, financial incentives to redistribute the load? Because truthfully every faction zone should have their trade capital. Ferrying goods from Amarr or Gallente space to Jita to sale is not only a resource hog, it's a time hog.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell
Arkon Olacar
black.listed
#58 - 2013-06-08 16:50:38 UTC
I agree with the irrelevant NPC corp forum alts; CCP should ditch the system cap, and TiDi along with it. It was so much better when you just blackscreened upon undocking or jumping into system.
iskflakes
#59 - 2013-06-08 16:55:03 UTC
Perhaps you could disable the real time station memberlist and switch local to delayed memberlist mode.

(If there are 1700 people docked and one person undocks, that's 1700 people who need to receive an update. The same is true with local chat.)

-
Mc Scam
Doomheim
#60 - 2013-06-08 17:06:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Mc Scam
How about removing traffic from afk players by not allowing Jita as final destination for the autopilot? (Just make em park on the gates to Jita instead) Should also keep the cap more stable near the actual needed limit. Would that help?

Edit: I will link this page to every future thread about Jita limits that I run across.