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Future of all industrials that arent Iteron V?

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Myrdreon Crow
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-06-06 16:01:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Myrdreon Crow
Recently, CCP changed all industrials to only require industrial I.

It seems to me, that all the other T1 industrials (and the caldari/amarr/minmatar skills) have basicly been made useless now. It also isnt a coincidence that all non-iteron V ships are nearing their production mineral price (with 100% refine) as they're being abandoned in great numbers.

What is now the use of all the industrial ships that arent the iteron V? Why would somebody grab any other ship for hauling (that isnt T2/freighter)? Or is this the message that they will be getting a balance pass/overhaul/redesign alltogether in a relatively short term?
Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2013-06-06 16:03:42 UTC

CCP Ytterbium wrote:
We're changing the skill requirements for Industrials as with all other ships for Odyssey.


However, the roles / attributes themselves will have to stay as they are for a while longer - we initially planed for them to go in the expansion as well, but they slipped out due to lack of time.

Tech1 Industrial overhaul has a high priority on our balanc-o-meter though - once battleships are updated, they'll be the last tech1 sub-capital hulls that need to go through the Tiericide fires.

Plans we have for them so far is to have the same kind of treatment than we've done with the Mining Barges. Have one Industrial variation with good mobility, low EHP and low cargo for quickly moving things around, another with low mobility, low EHP and high cargo for bulk transport and the last one with good defenses but poor mobility / cargo to compensate.

Which of course poses a problem with Gallente industrials and their 5 variations - as CCP Fozzie keeps saying all the time, if all else fail we'll shuffle the last two unused Iteron variations to have a dedicated bay for Spiced Wine and Exoctic Dancers P

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3015066#post3015066
Alara IonStorm
#3 - 2013-06-06 16:26:59 UTC
Ginger Barbarella
#4 - 2013-06-06 16:29:57 UTC
Mass storage has it's place. That's why there are freighters. But there is also an appreciation for taste and style. Personally, I've always loved the boxy, slow Hoarder. I just really like the looks of that ship and the Mammoth. I frequently move stuff around high and low in either a Crane or a Bustard, so the raw storage possibly in the Itty 5 is completely irrelevant to me.

Style does count for many of us.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Myrdreon Crow
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5 - 2013-06-06 16:50:00 UTC
Elena Thiesant wrote:

CCP Ytterbium wrote:
We're changing the skill requirements for Industrials as with all other ships for Odyssey.


However, the roles / attributes themselves will have to stay as they are for a while longer - we initially planed for them to go in the expansion as well, but they slipped out due to lack of time.

Tech1 Industrial overhaul has a high priority on our balanc-o-meter though - once battleships are updated, they'll be the last tech1 sub-capital hulls that need to go through the Tiericide fires.

Plans we have for them so far is to have the same kind of treatment than we've done with the Mining Barges. Have one Industrial variation with good mobility, low EHP and low cargo for quickly moving things around, another with low mobility, low EHP and high cargo for bulk transport and the last one with good defenses but poor mobility / cargo to compensate.

Which of course poses a problem with Gallente industrials and their 5 variations - as CCP Fozzie keeps saying all the time, if all else fail we'll shuffle the last two unused Iteron variations to have a dedicated bay for Spiced Wine and Exoctic Dancers P

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3015066#post3015066


That sounds an awfull lot like [racial] industrials being replaced by a single industrial skill with 3 T1 and 3 T2 ships (after all, thats how mining barges are? ).
Maximus Andendare
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#6 - 2013-06-06 17:40:26 UTC
Myrdreon Crow wrote:
Elena Thiesant wrote:

CCP Ytterbium wrote:
We're changing the skill requirements for Industrials as with all other ships for Odyssey.


However, the roles / attributes themselves will have to stay as they are for a while longer - we initially planed for them to go in the expansion as well, but they slipped out due to lack of time.

Tech1 Industrial overhaul has a high priority on our balanc-o-meter though - once battleships are updated, they'll be the last tech1 sub-capital hulls that need to go through the Tiericide fires.

Plans we have for them so far is to have the same kind of treatment than we've done with the Mining Barges. Have one Industrial variation with good mobility, low EHP and low cargo for quickly moving things around, another with low mobility, low EHP and high cargo for bulk transport and the last one with good defenses but poor mobility / cargo to compensate.

Which of course poses a problem with Gallente industrials and their 5 variations - as CCP Fozzie keeps saying all the time, if all else fail we'll shuffle the last two unused Iteron variations to have a dedicated bay for Spiced Wine and Exoctic Dancers P

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3015066#post3015066


That sounds an awfull lot like [racial] industrials being replaced by a single industrial skill with 3 T1 and 3 T2 ships (after all, thats how mining barges are? ).
No, it means that the skill books will still be racial (considering that they are prereqs for Freighter, JF and Transports). Likely, Iteron I, III, and V will be "swift," "strong" and "large," respectively, and Iteron II and IV will likely go away, considering that the Occator and Viator use the II and IV hulls, modified of course. Same is true for Minmatar, with Wreathe, Hoarder and Mammoth being "swift," "strong" and "large," respectively. As far as Caldari and Amarr go, considering they only have two types, I'm not sure. I could see Caldari using the Bustard's hull, repainted for T1, for the "large" T1 variant, considering that the hull model has an extra box. Amarr, though, I dunno. New model?? :)

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Meiyang Lee
Game Instrument Applications
#7 - 2013-06-06 18:13:39 UTC
Personally, I haven't flow a T1 industrial in quite a while since I completed Amarr Industrial 5. Lol
Impel for slow but large moves and the Prorator for fast transit but limited capacity, haven't looked back since. Blink
They're both rather pretty to boot.
Myrdreon Crow
State War Academy
Caldari State
#8 - 2013-06-07 06:07:51 UTC
Maximus Andendare wrote:

No, it means that the skill books will still be racial (considering that they are prereqs for Freighter, JF and Transports). Likely, Iteron I, III, and V will be "swift," "strong" and "large," respectively, and Iteron II and IV will likely go away, considering that the Occator and Viator use the II and IV hulls, modified of course. Same is true for Minmatar, with Wreathe, Hoarder and Mammoth being "swift," "strong" and "large," respectively. As far as Caldari and Amarr go, considering they only have two types, I'm not sure. I could see Caldari using the Bustard's hull, repainted for T1, for the "large" T1 variant, considering that the hull model has an extra box. Amarr, though, I dunno. New model?? :)


But then how will they make 4x swift, 4x strong, 4x large unique from eachother? I dont see that happening when there's only speed/ehp/cargo.

That brings me back to my original point. If you look right now, each race has different speed/ehp/m3, yet almost all focus is going to iteron V because that has the most m3 - the rest no longer has any real purpose. Fits for all ships are also identical being cargo extenders, cargo rigs and shield tank (because the lows are full with cargo extenders shield tank is no real option).

Without some racial aspect to make them unique (like they can do trough weapons for most ships) it seems unrealistic to get 12 unique flavors.

As for the training... if they could split up the dessie/bs skills, why wouldnt it be possible to merge/remove/refund industrials in favor of a non-racial skill? Hell, by throwing it all together, they can also throw tiericide towards freighters (so 3 t1 industrial, 3 t2 industrial, 3 t1 regular freighters, 3 t2 jump freighters).
Maximus Andendare
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#9 - 2013-06-07 07:25:02 UTC
Myrdreon Crow wrote:
Maximus Andendare wrote:

No, it means that the skill books will still be racial (considering that they are prereqs for Freighter, JF and Transports). Likely, Iteron I, III, and V will be "swift," "strong" and "large," respectively, and Iteron II and IV will likely go away, considering that the Occator and Viator use the II and IV hulls, modified of course. Same is true for Minmatar, with Wreathe, Hoarder and Mammoth being "swift," "strong" and "large," respectively. As far as Caldari and Amarr go, considering they only have two types, I'm not sure. I could see Caldari using the Bustard's hull, repainted for T1, for the "large" T1 variant, considering that the hull model has an extra box. Amarr, though, I dunno. New model?? :)


But then how will they make 4x swift, 4x strong, 4x large unique from eachother? I dont see that happening when there's only speed/ehp/cargo.

That brings me back to my original point. If you look right now, each race has different speed/ehp/m3, yet almost all focus is going to iteron V because that has the most m3 - the rest no longer has any real purpose. Fits for all ships are also identical being cargo extenders, cargo rigs and shield tank (because the lows are full with cargo extenders shield tank is no real option).

Without some racial aspect to make them unique (like they can do trough weapons for most ships) it seems unrealistic to get 12 unique flavors.

As for the training... if they could split up the dessie/bs skills, why wouldnt it be possible to merge/remove/refund industrials in favor of a non-racial skill? Hell, by throwing it all together, they can also throw tiericide towards freighters (so 3 t1 industrial, 3 t2 industrial, 3 t1 regular freighters, 3 t2 jump freighters).
No. Please stop.

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Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#10 - 2013-06-07 07:26:27 UTC
Myrdreon Crow wrote:
Maximus Andendare wrote:

No, it means that the skill books will still be racial (considering that they are prereqs for Freighter, JF and Transports). Likely, Iteron I, III, and V will be "swift," "strong" and "large," respectively, and Iteron II and IV will likely go away, considering that the Occator and Viator use the II and IV hulls, modified of course. Same is true for Minmatar, with Wreathe, Hoarder and Mammoth being "swift," "strong" and "large," respectively. As far as Caldari and Amarr go, considering they only have two types, I'm not sure. I could see Caldari using the Bustard's hull, repainted for T1, for the "large" T1 variant, considering that the hull model has an extra box. Amarr, though, I dunno. New model?? :)


But then how will they make 4x swift, 4x strong, 4x large unique from eachother? I dont see that happening when there's only speed/ehp/cargo.



I'd happily take an iteron that was slow, weak, small if it had a fitting service.
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
#11 - 2013-06-07 07:38:11 UTC
Myrdreon Crow wrote:
Without some racial aspect to make them unique (like they can do trough weapons for most ships) it seems unrealistic to get 12 unique flavors.
Then give them weapon bonuses? Make it so an Industrial can fend off a combat frig or two. And fully weaponized the equivalent of a low-grade cruiser. There is no reason they should be terrible at EVERYTHING except hauling.
CCP Rise
C C P
C C P Alliance
#12 - 2013-06-07 08:00:49 UTC
Can't give any specific information on this quite yet, but it will be coming soon Big smile

@ccp_rise
ChromeStriker
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2013-06-07 08:25:33 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Can't give any specific information on this quite yet, but it will be coming soon Big smile


(TM)

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Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#14 - 2013-06-07 16:00:06 UTC
ChromeStriker wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
Can't give any specific information on this quite yet, but it will be coming soon Big smile


(TM)

I think they should come up with more than three roles. Some roles are specialized to the race.

All races should get a big and slow as well as a small and fast. These go forward for the two T2 types.

Other roles:
Hard to kill (high ehp)
Hard to catch (like the Venture, a T1 ship)
Fleet hangar
Fitting service
Secure market (go to an in-game event and buy and sell out of your ship)

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Freighdee Katt
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2013-06-07 16:00:36 UTC
With the Gallente having "excess" variants, maybe two of them could have very small cargo holds but huge dedicated ore holds, to give them a mining fleet support role. One could have a modest ore hold and heavy tank, and the other could have a huge ore hold and modest tank.

EvE is supposed to suck.  Wait . . . what was the question?
Freighdee Katt
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2013-06-07 16:07:39 UTC
Meiyang Lee wrote:
Personally, I haven't flow a T1 industrial in quite a while since I completed Amarr Industrial 5. Impel for slow but large moves and the Prorator for fast transit but limited capacity, haven't looked back since. They're both rather pretty to boot.

My hauler alt's stable has been reduced to an Obelisk and an Orca. The Obelisk moves everything too big to fit in the Orca, and the Orca moves everything else. With a MWD fitted, one pulse means the Orca aligns in 10s, which is quicker than anything short of a Blockade Runner. And I'm not undocking with anything in a BR anymore ever, since they turned them into giant pink flourescent SHOOT ME signs.

I do also have a handful of rusted out Bestower station wagons on my combat alts just for moving the odd load of ammo or cap boosters around when I don't feel like logging the hauler.

EvE is supposed to suck.  Wait . . . what was the question?
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2013-06-07 17:34:46 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Can't give any specific information on this quite yet, but it will be coming soon Big smile


And IMO, this is quite stupid.

Industrial changes should have been rolled out *at the same time* as the industrial skill changes.

If the industrial changes aren't ready, then delay the skill changes.

There's no reason to fly an Itty 1-4 now, pretty much no reason to fly anything other than an Itty V or maybe a mammoth, other than aesthetics.
Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#18 - 2013-06-07 19:08:59 UTC
T1 haulers are for low skilled pilots. It doesn't really matter which one you use all that much, because if you care about it you're almost certainly training for a transport.

Personally I go Occator if I want to give a -10.0 something to shoot at in low sec, or Viator if I want don't want to get caught at all.
Ginger Barbarella
#19 - 2013-06-07 20:42:59 UTC
Verity Sovereign wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
Can't give any specific information on this quite yet, but it will be coming soon Big smile


And IMO, this is quite stupid.

Industrial changes should have been rolled out *at the same time* as the industrial skill changes.

If the industrial changes aren't ready, then delay the skill changes.

There's no reason to fly an Itty 1-4 now, pretty much no reason to fly anything other than an Itty V or maybe a mammoth, other than aesthetics.


Is that how you and the gaming software company you run do it in your intarwebz spaceships game?

Wait, what?!?! you *don't* run a software development company?

Huh... that's odd... Roll

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Maximus Andendare
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#20 - 2013-06-07 20:51:19 UTC
Verity Sovereign wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
Can't give any specific information on this quite yet, but it will be coming soon Big smile


And IMO, this is quite stupid.

Industrial changes should have been rolled out *at the same time* as the industrial skill changes.

If the industrial changes aren't ready, then delay the skill changes.

There's no reason to fly an Itty 1-4 now, pretty much no reason to fly anything other than an Itty V or maybe a mammoth, other than aesthetics.
You should really settle down. You made similarly bad comments in your own thread. If you want to fly ANY other ship than an Iteron V, guess what--GO AHEAD! NOBODY is forcing you to fly anything.

Here's a plan for you: Go to Amarr and buy a Sigil. Fly that Sigil to Dodixie and buy an Iteron I. Take that Iteron I to Rens and pick up a Wreathe. Travel over to Jita with that Wreathe and buy a Badger I. Now, here is the important part: take that Badger into the nearest nullsec gatecamp and make SURE you get podded.

Enter grid and you're already dead, destined to be reborn and fight another day.

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