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question about invention and research
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Enockx Kaine
Doomheim
#1 - 2013-06-07 05:17:40 UTC
So I am new to this game and I am at a point where I want to pick a career. I want to explore. I was thinking about hacking AND archeology so I can do invention, research and I guess production. And I will salvage enemies along the way....i figure why not. i have to kill them so i might as well salvage them.

My question is am I being too ambitious? Should I just focus on relic OR data or is it not only feasible, but recommended to do both?
Gianath
Gallentian Legitimate Businessmen
#2 - 2013-06-07 05:39:34 UTC
Enockx Kaine wrote:
So I am new to this game and I am at a point where I want to pick a career. I want to explore. I was thinking about hacking AND archeology so I can do invention, research and I guess production. And I will salvage enemies along the way....i figure why not. i have to kill them so i might as well salvage them.

My question is am I being too ambitious? Should I just focus on relic OR data or is it not only feasible, but recommended to do both?


It's pretty easy to train to a mid-range power with salvaging, hacking and relics, so you may as well get your feet wet and see if you like it. You don't need to max everything out to be a successful explorer, you can do well with mostly 3's and 4's.

Research/invention is a good long term goal, but it takes a tremendous amount of time to get skills up into all of the different areas that will make it work well. It's also hard to be profitable solo if that's your primary career, since it is really pricy and running out of a POS is almost a necessity. You'll need lots of time and money to get into this field. I would recommend saving inventions either for an alt, or after your main has managed to establish a good supply of starting ISK from combat/wormholes/etc.
Termy Rockling
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2013-06-07 08:22:43 UTC
Nothing wrong in exploring both data and relic while doing occasional salvaging. Its nice income if you enjoy that kind of activity.

BUT if you plan to be "real" manufacturer, there is no way you can get any meaningful amounts of materials yourself, you will just buy all the needed materials from others and focus on the actual production and research. "Basic" manufacture/reseach char takes like 2month training, more when you start to do t2 stuff which actually use the stuff you find on sites.
Enockx Kaine
Doomheim
#4 - 2013-06-07 14:17:12 UTC
Ok so if I am going to be doing relic and data sites and salvaging along the way, then what would be the best career type thing to go along with that? That's what I don't understand I guess. what are all the choices that would work with the thigns I will end up getting from Relic and Data mining? Research and invention are two of those right? WHat are teh others? Like what are yall experienced, veteran players advice and recommendations?

My goals as for playing the game are PVE with PvP secondary--at least for the time being. Sometimes roaming around doing relic and data stuff. Running missions. Solo missions...group missions....all of that. But I also will want to PvP from time to time as well. Small stuff at first just to get my feet wet and eventually getting more and more involved.

My understanding of this game is that you NEED PvE aspects in order to make money for PvP. So I figured I should go for the PvE parts that I enjoy. Like relic and data mining, killing the occasional rat that comes my way and mission running. Then when I feel skilled enough and have some ISK to burn and a decent selection of ship types, then I will throw some PvP into my game.

So now that you know my basic blueprint for HOW I want to play the game, what advice or recommendations do yall have for me? Like if I do relic mining or data mining or both, then what would the next compliment be? I just thought the next logical step would be research or invention or both for all I know. But I am most likely wrong or too ambitious or just ignorant.

I am 35 years old and have a 4 year old daughter. I only play the game maybe 3 or 4 hours a night, but not every single night. On average lets say 4 days a week. say an average of 15 hours a week.

So what would YALL do if you were me?
Erloas
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2013-06-07 14:39:00 UTC
Invention (t2) and manufacturing are the primary use of items you get from relic and data sites. The main problem is that an invention or manufacturing career has to be done on a large scale to make any money at it. And by the time you get to large scale production you can't even hope to gather all of the parts you need by yourself with exploration. Same with the mining side of things (short of multibox mining for a long time or botting).

You can help your income by doing those sites but since you would be consuming everything you find all of the money you are making is still going to be coming from your manufacturing.
At least early on if you want to make any money from your exploration you have to sell the items you find. If you stock pile them for production later that is fine but you aren't making any money from the exploration if everything you get sits in a hanger somewhere.
The biggest expense from manufacturing/invention is the fact that you almost have to have a POS to make any money off of it and that takes a lot of up-front capital and time.
Lady Molefield
Burpies Incorporated
#6 - 2013-06-07 16:07:02 UTC
A lot of what you mentioned can be entire eve careers on their own. You can spend 100s of millions of SP in combat alone and make a career out of missions or wormholes or ratting. Manufacturing, trading, mining are all similar and there's not a lot of shared skill requirements between all of these roles.

The jobs in eve can be very specialized and, in general, it's hard to be vertically integrated like you are hinting because fore each step in your process, there's someone out there who can do it better. It's usually more efficient for you to specialize (in terms of career) than to try to do it all, especially in the beginning. For example most manufacturers do better by training to be the best manufacturer they can be and buying the raw materials because someone else out there can acquire the raw materials more quickly and cheaply than the manufacturer can. After manufacturing is maxed or the diminishing returns are too large, then diversifying may be a good way to lower some costs.

Combat skills can be a good compliment. It'll allow you to run missions for some direct isk infusion while developing your ability to fly ships for better PvE opportunities and/or PvP, and it potentially opens up opportunities for more advanced sites for your salvaging/exploration. But to be super efficient at running lvl4 missions or null ratting requires a decent SP investment in combat ships and usually specialization in the specific mission/ratting ship you plan to use.

Invention is really a part of T2 manufacturing (in this case many skills needed for invention are the same as what's needed to produce the item so most T2 manufacturers do their own invention). It's hard to make money on invention alone, but T2 manufacturing can be profitable. Not sure that good hacking/archeology/salvaging skills transfer well into invention/t2 mfr. T2 manufacturers don't really need any combat skills but they require a bit of investment in the science and industry trees.

Research can make money, but it's best as a long term investment and often requires a lot of capital. Usually you buy a very expensive bpo and research the ME and PE to perfect then sell it to the manufacturer at a profit. Again, this doesn't really crossover with exploration or salvaging.

To pvp effectively doesn't necessarily require a huge SP investment in combat or a huge isk pile. There are so many roles in a fleet, that there are some very basic in-game skills to train up and the ability to fly frigs. The best thing to do to learn how to be effective in pvp with low SP is to join Eve-uni, RvB, or Brave Newbies and start learning how to be in a fleet.
Haulie Berry
#7 - 2013-06-07 16:23:58 UTC
It's not so much that your plan is ambitious as it is that it's just unfeasible.

You can do exploration, and you can do research/invention.

You really can't do exploration as a means of functioning as your own research/invention supply chain, though. Not effectively, anyway.

In fact, in general, the whole, "I'm going to be the entire supply chain in my internet space-business," is one of the most common newb mistakes.

Enockx Kaine
Doomheim
#8 - 2013-06-07 16:36:15 UTC
Haulie Berry wrote:
It's not so much that your plan is ambitious as it is that it's just unfeasible.

You can do exploration, and you can do research/invention.

You really can't do exploration as a means of functioning as your own research/invention supply chain, though. Not effectively, anyway.

In fact, in general, the whole, "I'm going to be the entire supply chain in my internet space-business," is one of the most common newb mistakes.




So what should my plan be then? I don't really want or need to be my own entire supply chain or anything like that....I just don't really know what I should be doing I guess. I haven't joined a corp or anything yet....I wanted to wait until I at least finished or got halfway done with the sisters of eve arc.

So I don't make a common newb mistake, what do you suppose I should do? I WANT to run missions and do combat. That is fun to me. And I figured running with a data analyzer and a relic analyzer while probing for these sites will be fun to me as well because I get to explore and mess around AND kill the enemies in my way.

So what should I do with the loot that I get from these things? Should I just sell them as mats or should I go into some other thing? I am thinking in terms of crafting.....mainly because I am a product of other MMO's. What should I do to make money to survive, but to still have fun and still have a sense of accomplishment?
Enockx Kaine
Doomheim
#9 - 2013-06-07 16:40:56 UTC
and here is a stupid question to add to this informative thread...............what does POS stand for? lol. I suck at abbreviations. Seriously...I need to know what that means.
Gianath
Gallentian Legitimate Businessmen
#10 - 2013-06-07 16:42:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Gianath
Player Owned Structure. I'll point you towards the link in the sticky for more on that...

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Science_and_industry_(Useful_threads)
Erloas
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2013-06-07 17:03:46 UTC
Enockx Kaine wrote:
So I don't make a common newb mistake, what do you suppose I should do? I WANT to run missions and do combat. That is fun to me. And I figured running with a data analyzer and a relic analyzer while probing for these sites will be fun to me as well because I get to explore and mess around AND kill the enemies in my way.


Short version: do whatever you want to do. Of the items you get from the profession you enjoy, keep what you can use for yourself and sell the rest to other players for extra money.

Pick one thing and do it.

For one thing, while mission running and combat anoms are very closely related it doesn't actually help much to try and do both at the same time. For one as a mission runner a decent portion of your income will be from selling LP rewards, and there isn't really anything gained by running a quick anom or signature (not to mention that mission running is generally done in high sec but the good combat signatures/anoms are all out in null). So while many of the skills relate to both the movement makes it not all that practical to do both.
Although you have the benefit of being able to do one for a while and if you get tired of it going and doing the other one.

If you want to do exploration, including the combat sites, keep in mind where you are going to be. High-sec combat signatures/anoms can be easily done in a cruiser, but in low and null sec they require more powerful ships. So just keep in mind you will want to do your data and relic sites most likely in a frigate (covert ops in low/null) and switch to something else for the combat sites. It is good for a break from one or the other but isn't a "one ship can do it all" career, so it might be best to focus on one for a while and then switch to the other.

Either way though, you will get a lot of loot from any of these careers (at least if you bother collecting it from combat) and the best thing to do is sell it to other players and let them deal with it. That goes for the exploration items as well as junk loot that is just reprocessed. You do make more reprocessing it, but only once you get the decent reprocessing skills as well as decent standings for taxes and potentially trade skills so you can put up sell orders instead of selling to buy orders.

And in the future when you are running out of skills to train for your preferred profession then you can look at diversifying and starting to use that loot yourself instead of selling it. But you aren't going to be running low on combat related skills to train for quite a while.
Enockx Kaine
Doomheim
#12 - 2013-06-07 17:46:01 UTC
Erloas wrote:
Enockx Kaine wrote:
So I don't make a common newb mistake, what do you suppose I should do? I WANT to run missions and do combat. That is fun to me. And I figured running with a data analyzer and a relic analyzer while probing for these sites will be fun to me as well because I get to explore and mess around AND kill the enemies in my way.


Short version: do whatever you want to do. Of the items you get from the profession you enjoy, keep what you can use for yourself and sell the rest to other players for extra money.

Pick one thing and do it.

For one thing, while mission running and combat anoms are very closely related it doesn't actually help much to try and do both at the same time. For one as a mission runner a decent portion of your income will be from selling LP rewards, and there isn't really anything gained by running a quick anom or signature (not to mention that mission running is generally done in high sec but the good combat signatures/anoms are all out in null). So while many of the skills relate to both the movement makes it not all that practical to do both.
Although you have the benefit of being able to do one for a while and if you get tired of it going and doing the other one.

If you want to do exploration, including the combat sites, keep in mind where you are going to be. High-sec combat signatures/anoms can be easily done in a cruiser, but in low and null sec they require more powerful ships. So just keep in mind you will want to do your data and relic sites most likely in a frigate (covert ops in low/null) and switch to something else for the combat sites. It is good for a break from one or the other but isn't a "one ship can do it all" career, so it might be best to focus on one for a while and then switch to the other.

Either way though, you will get a lot of loot from any of these careers (at least if you bother collecting it from combat) and the best thing to do is sell it to other players and let them deal with it. That goes for the exploration items as well as junk loot that is just reprocessed. You do make more reprocessing it, but only once you get the decent reprocessing skills as well as decent standings for taxes and potentially trade skills so you can put up sell orders instead of selling to buy orders.

And in the future when you are running out of skills to train for your preferred profession then you can look at diversifying and starting to use that loot yourself instead of selling it. But you aren't going to be running low on combat related skills to train for quite a while.



I think I understand now. I am thinking too far ahead right? I have just begun....so from what I want to do with my pixulated life, I need to take baby steps. And those baby steps are combat oriented. I should do what I want, make sure I live and don't die, and worry about industry when I run out of combat skills to train. Is this the gist (more or less) of what you are saying?
Alexander Eisenhower
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2013-06-08 13:12:15 UTC
Haulie Berry wrote:
It's not so much that your plan is ambitious as it is that it's just unfeasible.

You can do exploration, and you can do research/invention.

You really can't do exploration as a means of functioning as your own research/invention supply chain, though. Not effectively, anyway.

In fact, in general, the whole, "I'm going to be the entire supply chain in my internet space-business," is one of the most common newb mistakes.




You are so right and I so wish someone had explained this to me when I started, lol. But as the sayin goes in EVE, Die and Learn!