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Awoxing & Dueling
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Psychotic Monk

Sebiestor Tribe

Minmatar Republic

Likes received: 2,221

#101 - 2013-06-06 23:52:49 UTC

Basil Pupkin wrote:

Psychotic Monk wrote:

If you think there's nothing you can do to stop an awoxer, then you're simply not thinking hard enough. I have been shut entirely down by relatively simple precautions both before and during an awox and I essentially have no counter to the tactic in question except to rely on the ignorance of my victims to not use it.

I guess THAT really makes you worse than miners. Failing in a situation with no way to fail and blaming other people for it? Really?

So then when my opponents beat me it's because I'm not good enough at what I do? It has nothing to do with my opponent making the correct choices to defeat me? You're creating a standard of awoxer that is perfect and demanding that he be defeated without effort?

Belligerent Undesirables Selling Griefer Immunity

Mallak Azaria

Caldari Provisions

Caldari State

Likes received: 6,614

#102 - 2013-06-07 01:58:32 UTC

Basil Pupkin wrote:

Ignore point, ignore point, ignore point.

1) You KNOW your targets beforehand by warping to them already inside the corp and checking them out. No chance of failure.
2) Mining fleets are vulnerable because you can't mine in something less vulnerable. Let us not get into that discussion again, let's just establish a long-proven point that there is no way to tank a retriever enough to protect even against a suicide ganker, not even mentioning a well-prepared awoxer.
3) I request again - what possible bother can make victims safe from unobvious awox? I know it's hard to acknowledge you're wrong while being a goon, but still, can you answer this one without ignoring it for the 4th time?

I haven't been ignoring your points at all. Just because you haven't been given the answer that you believe is correct doesn't mean you're being ignored. Now to answer your points ~~yet again & for the last time~~:

1. I don't know my targets beforehand because I choose to awox whoever (just like they choose to accept my characters application despite it's rotten 4 year old history).

2. You can mine in literally any ship that has turret hardpoints (people actually do this), you can also have people in combat ships nearby or have ships in an Orca's hold which can be quickly switched in to. ECM drones are a valuable, yet cheap option for shutting down awoxers & suicide gankers.

3. So the point is; You will never be 100% safe from an attack, just as the awoxer isn't guaranteed 100% success & there is nothing wrong with this. How much effort are you willing to put in to mitigating the risks?

I know it's hard for you to accept the facts that have been laid out in front of you, considering that 2 of us are goons, but still, are these tactics really so hard for you to implement?

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Mallak Azaria

Caldari Provisions

Caldari State

Likes received: 6,614

#103 - 2013-06-07 02:11:16 UTC

Despite what people say about me, I'm not completely heartless. I like helping people improve, so after I awox a corp I give it's leaders advice on how to mitigate the risk of this happening again. Apart from the fact that most of them explode in to a frothing rage & refuse to listen (a common theme) it's a rather successful venture. I was given a PLEX a few weeks ago by the CEO of a corporation that had fallen victim to me & a nice big thank you letter which detailed measures that they've implemented. They haven't fallen victim to an awox since.

So, are you capable of taking the advice offered from both career awoxers & random people who laugh at your laziness, or will you continue to be a willing victim?

Basil Pupkin

Republic Military School

Likes received: 198

#104 - 2013-06-07 06:56:08 UTC

Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

Basil Pupkin wrote:

I request again - what possible bother can make victims safe from unobvious awox? I know it's hard to acknowledge you're wrong while being a goon, but still, can you answer this one without ignoring it for the 4th time?

I'm not a goon, not an awoxer, but will weigh in:

A complete surprise attack on "fragile" vessels will result in them dying. However, your blingier vessels (Like an Orca, or a freighter) can easily have the tank and defenses to survive longer than 10 seconds.

A fleet that is prepared can easily release a zerg of EC drones, an orca that's prepared can have a BB or griffin in its bay, with extra jammers in the hangar to jam out the opponent. Ships that haven't returned fire can also be 'depsoited' into the Orca's Ship bay to save them.

These aren't fool proof, and you may take some losses, but dealing with losses is a major part of this game! There are options, and the largest and most effective option is to vet the person joining your corp!

Oh please, not this argument again. If you know you are going to deal with drones, just equip ONE smartbomb and forget drones existed. After that, you know you're not going to deal with something not fitting into the orca, which is one bc or 2 cruisers at most, and what's awesome is that you can check the orca's bay beforehand by actually flying to the orca and checking its bay content before you strike. So, NO, drones are not an option, and ships which aren't complete surprise are not an option either.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.

Basil Pupkin

Republic Military School

Likes received: 198

#105 - 2013-06-07 07:04:17 UTC

Psychotic Monk wrote:

When the opponents beat you while you had an initiative and intel you had, it's because you were not good enough at what you do. It has nothing to do with opponents making any choices because you had every possible opportunity to outwit them or postpone your action till you can outwit them. You rushed, you didn't fit properly - the keyword is you.

I am creating a realistic awoxing scenario and demand that he be defeated WITH effort. If you actually read my posts, I asked at least 4 times on how can I possibly do that with any reasonable amount of effort. So far, my only answer was along "haha he doesn't know something obvious" line, and nobody has tried to state that obvious thing yet.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.

Basil Pupkin

Republic Military School

Likes received: 198

#106 - 2013-06-07 07:23:22 UTC

Mallak Azaria wrote:

One you're in, you can learn everything you need to learn.

Mallak Azaria wrote:

2. You can mine in literally any ship that has turret hardpoints (people actually do this), you can also have people in combat ships nearby or have ships in an Orca's hold which can be quickly switched in to. ECM drones are a valuable, yet cheap option for shutting down awoxers & suicide gankers.

Mining in non-mining ships is a forgotten practice. It started going down when barges were reworked, and not even once I saw anyone doing this after Venture were introduced.

Mallak Azaria wrote:

3. So the point is; You will never be 100% safe from an attack, just as the awoxer isn't guaranteed 100% success & there is nothing wrong with this. How much effort are you willing to put in to mitigating the risks?

How awoxer isn't guaranteed 100% success is beyond me. He has both initiative and intel, and failing while having those can only be done by committing an epic failure. Of course, with chances of epic failure on awoxer's side it goes down from 100% to how bad an awoxer is, but unless an epic failure is commited, any amount of effort to stop an awoxer seem futile.

Mallak Azaria wrote:

I know it's hard for you to accept the facts that have been laid out in front of you, considering that 2 of us are goons, but still, are these tactics really so hard for you to implement?

Refuted points have minimal value.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.

dark heartt

Likes received: 534

#107 - 2013-06-07 07:33:09 UTC

Baden Luskan wrote:

I wondered this too. I enjoy this game, and enjoy the PvP in it, however, I constantly roll my eyes when I see people who have to use gimmicky game mechanics to give themselves an advantage. I personally think they should fix this loophole and force the killbears (those who kill carebears) to actually seek legitimate fights.

Game developers have to realize that this behavior only drives paying customers away because they feel cheated, victimized, by the game mechanics.

Given that one of Eve's current marketing taglines is "BE THE VILLAIN", what makes you think that this is a gimmicky mechanic? Eve has always had and always will have ways to engage in non consensual PVP. They don't have to realise that it drives paying customers away, because they are trying to attract people who can handle playing in that sort of world. If they can't then clearly they didn't understand what Eve is about.

http://tetrisisunrealistic.blogspot.com.au/

Andski

Science and Trade Institute

Caldari State

Likes received: 11,585

#108 - 2013-06-07 07:39:46 UTC

Basil Pupkin wrote:

When you're given pointers not just on how to prevent an awoxer from getting into your corp, but how to deal with them /if/ they manage to slip by (whether they make a real effort to conceal their intent and cover their tracks or if you delegated recruitment to somebody who doesn't bother vetting candidates is irrelevant) and you just say NOPE GOON ADVICE I NO TRUST, well, there's really no point in trying to convince you.

FYI Gizznitt isn't a goon nor is he even aligned with us. Agony are hostile to us, in fact.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." - Abrazzar

Kaarous Aldurald

Black Hydra Consortium.

Likes received: 16,296

#109 - 2013-06-07 08:03:06 UTC

Have to say, the kind of person who is going to ignore Psychotic Monk's advice and just keep on drawling about how the awoxer has a 100% kill chance against literally anyone he chooses to target...

Isn't the kind of person likely to be convinced by reason.

Has anyone pointed out to him yet that for every successful awox you make, how many rejected corp apps you end up with?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Muad 'dib

State War Academy

Caldari State

Likes received: 1,412

#110 - 2013-06-07 08:55:11 UTC

Riddle me this: if researching chars and being careful who you fly with is such an effective method of avoiding being killed without punishment from concord in high sec, then why did CCP remove the shooting of gang members by other gang members?

Alliance members cant shoot other alliance corps members, corp members were only ever able to shoot each other to save can flapping for aggro for testing tanks and such which they can now do with the dual option.

Awoxing by just joining a corp and hunting down its people while your 24 hours of roles are there is dumb, if you want to kill somone like this take the risk and put in some effort, lure them into a dual that you will not disengage like you told them you would - still get to be an ass but its slightly harder

dont like it? well who wants their career made harder, but its eve adapt or die (to your 'friends')

Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.

Alavaria Fera

GoonWaffe

Likes received: 6,953

#111 - 2013-06-07 09:25:13 UTC

Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

Awoxing is a fear in the back of his mind. Like anyone knows, suddenly that blue might light a cyno and then NC. dropes five supercarriers on your ratting dreadnaught.

Let alone that "AFK" cloaker.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Kaarous Aldurald

Black Hydra Consortium.

Likes received: 16,296

#112 - 2013-06-07 09:28:11 UTC

Alavaria Fera wrote:

Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

Awoxing is a fear in the back of his mind. Like anyone knows, suddenly that blue might light a cyno and then NC. dropes five supercarriers on your ratting dreadnaught.

Let alone that "AFK" cloaker.

My thought is, not so much, a fear in the back of his mind. It's more like it's happened to him once or twice, but instead of thinking "how can I avoid that in the future?", he just thought "why is that allowed?". Then the gratification of ego kicked in, and all of a sudden there wasn't anything he could have done about it, which fuels the second thought. And voila, this thread.

That's my take on it anyway.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Basil Pupkin

Republic Military School

Likes received: 198

#113 - 2013-06-07 10:28:18 UTC

Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

Alavaria Fera wrote:

Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

Awoxing is a fear in the back of his mind. Like anyone knows, suddenly that blue might light a cyno and then NC. dropes five supercarriers on your ratting dreadnaught.

Let alone that "AFK" cloaker.

"Didn't read, lol".

As I said, my corp only has irl buddies of mine, so no awoxing which won't give them a broken leg tomorrow can happen.
Awoxer has a 100% kill chance because he can choose to not engage when chance is not 100%, hence when he engages it's 100%.
There haven't been pointed out a single recipe, pointer or reason in this thread on dealing with anything beyond obvious awoxers.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.

Kaarous Aldurald

Black Hydra Consortium.

Likes received: 16,296

#114 - 2013-06-07 10:33:04 UTC

Quote:

This is the crux of your problem. You are operating entirely under the assumption that the awoxer has a 100% success chance. Therefore you reject out of hand any solution that is not a 100% success chance of getting rid of an awoxer. Both are wrong.

Because I can pretty much guarantee you that actually taking the time to check their API and corp history, etc (and give freaking interviews on TS or something), works wonders. Or you can turtle up and not let anyone into your corp that you can't coerce with irl threats of violence.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

blood spine

Infinity Engine

Likes received: 34

#115 - 2013-06-07 10:33:56 UTC

RomeStar wrote:

Question: What was the main reason to allow corpmates to shoot corpmates?

I am going to assume it was so you and your friends can partake in a friendly duel without concord intervention.

Now that duelling has been introduced, do you think its time to take awoxing off the table? I can see the flames from here especially those safari kings but its a legitimate question. No I have not been the victim of an awoxer nor have I ever awoxed a fellow corpmate. I think removing awoxing will actually help corp recruitment.

Just my 2cts.

The ability to shoot corp mates is part of eve im afraid and should never be removed as it adds just another way to really mess with a corp if your the kind of person that likes to infiltrate corps for instance. I remember a YouTube video that I saw once where a guy infiltrated a corp in a few minutes flat just so he could kill a freighter that he saw on the route between two trade hubs.

I instantly thought "Only in eve"

Also it quite nice to have the ability to punish dumb corp thieves that steal from a corp then go ice mining right after while there still in corp stasis this actually happened to my corp was really fun to drop a fleet on him while he was mining Ice in highsec Twisted

Doomheim 287
Forum Clone 77777 Doomheim Likes received: 287	#116 - 2013-06-07 11:21:31 UTC The bears really cant get enough. Its a good thing, for the game, that corp members can shoot eachother. It means you need to trust eachother, builds stronger connections, and, if we're lucky, makes people not recruit any idiot they come by. There is basically zero gain, and a TON of stuff lost, if you removed this feature.

Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 1,863
ACE McFACE Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation Likes received: 1,863	#117 - 2013-06-07 11:28:10 UTC RomeStar wrote: I can see the flames from here especially those safari kings Safari kings? Liam Inkuras wrote: No, because then proper awoxing would be impossible and EVE would die in a fire I don't think the only thing keeping EVE alive is the ability to shoot corpmates without CONCORD intervention Now, more than ever, we need a dislike button.

Kaarous Aldurald

Black Hydra Consortium.

Likes received: 16,296

#118 - 2013-06-07 11:31:15 UTC

ACE McFACE wrote:

RomeStar wrote:

I can see the flames from here especially those safari kings

Safari kings?

Liam Inkuras wrote:

No, because then proper awoxing would be impossible and EVE would die in a fire

I don't think the only thing keeping EVE alive is the ability to shoot corpmates without CONCORD intervention

A "safari" is where you make an awoxxing character and see how many corps you can get invited to and awox before someone seriously manages to stop you.

Read about a few, they are truly hilarious. If you actually get someone's API, and their only skills point to "Gank fit Thorax" and he's applying to a mining corp... you get what you deserve.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.


blood spine Infinity Engine Likes received: 34	#119 - 2013-06-07 11:32:30 UTC Liam Inkuras wrote: No, because then proper awoxing would be impossible and EVE would die in a fire I don't think the only thing keeping EVE alive is the ability to shoot corpmates without CONCORD intervention[/quote] No but it is a significant part and if the ability to Awox was removed isn't that just a sliding slope to make eve a carebears game?

Basil Pupkin

Republic Military School

Likes received: 198

#120 - 2013-06-07 11:42:07 UTC

Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

Awoxer does, as a matter of hand, unless he's terribad, has 100% success chance. I presented my thoughts on it and you just stated it's not true, while your only argument were "trust me, I'm a goon awoxer".

Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

Because I can pretty much guarantee you that actually taking the time to check their API and corp history, etc (and give freaking interviews on TS or something), works wonders. Or you can turtle up and not let anyone into your corp that you can't coerce with irl threats of violence.

Hypothetical situation:
Checked his history, nothing there cuz he's new.
No kills. Interview showed he's a total noob.
What he really were is an awoxer in disguise who pretended to be new - it's not even hard.
Now he enjoys an awoxing activity, which has even less risk than mining, while being more griefing than suicide ganking, and has 100% chance of success.
What could I have done to prevent this EASYMODE scenario for awoxer? Nothing.

Or you can only let in people who you know for sure that they aren't goon awoxers.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.

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EVE General Discussion

Sebiestor Tribe

Minmatar Republic

Caldari Provisions

Caldari State

Republic Military School

Science and Trade Institute

Caldari State

Black Hydra Consortium.

State War Academy

Caldari State

GoonWaffe

Infinity Engine

Doomheim

Federal Navy Academy

Gallente Federation