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First day - a little ice mining report

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Terian en Cedoulain
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#261 - 2013-06-07 07:23:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Terian en Cedoulain
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Terian en Cedoulain wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
I have lived for long time in low sec, less in null and WHs. I have mined and missioned L4s and had PvP and POS in there.
You believe to know enough to say your statements but you don't take in account "details" like i.e. the fact that mining > 0 is not enough. To be worth it, you must also earn enough to recover from the unavoidable losses and also mine more than in hi sec, else you would just stay in hi sec.

If you can't find ice in high-sec, then any ice mined in low-sec would be > 0.

Sure, if you mine 1, and then get blown up by a lowsec pirate, you've mined more ice but lost more than it was worth.

Or if you get ganked on the gate because it was camped. Heh.


Which is why I edited my post (before you responded, mind you) to include another relevant fact.

My only concern is that my "home systems" in low-sec do not have any ice... but I have started frequenting some systems with ice in them in order to get to know the locals and whatnot. I am sure I can pull it off for ice as well as I have for ore.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#262 - 2013-06-07 07:52:22 UTC
Terian en Cedoulain wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Terian en Cedoulain wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
I have lived for long time in low sec, less in null and WHs. I have mined and missioned L4s and had PvP and POS in there.
You believe to know enough to say your statements but you don't take in account "details" like i.e. the fact that mining > 0 is not enough. To be worth it, you must also earn enough to recover from the unavoidable losses and also mine more than in hi sec, else you would just stay in hi sec.

If you can't find ice in high-sec, then any ice mined in low-sec would be > 0.

Sure, if you mine 1, and then get blown up by a lowsec pirate, you've mined more ice but lost more than it was worth.

Or if you get ganked on the gate because it was camped. Heh.


Which is why I edited my post (before you responded, mind you) to include another relevant fact.

My only concern is that my "home systems" in low-sec do not have any ice... but I have started frequenting some systems with ice in them in order to get to know the locals and whatnot. I am sure I can pull it off for ice as well as I have for ore.

So you say, but that's only because I spend a long time typing.Or going back and editing, which is fairly common.

We have newbies seriously taking ice mining skillbooks, injecting and training the skills. They need some help with the rats though...

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#263 - 2013-06-07 07:59:40 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

Please stop using casual players as your excuse, its giving us a bad name. Now, tell me, if going out and finding ice is too much "effort" why dont you just swap to ore? It earns you more at this point anyway.


So casual, you can follow the forums for most of the day and - compared to the guys you reply to - have thousands of times their posts count.


Long hours and not much happening.
Charles the Miner
Amarr Empire
#264 - 2013-06-07 10:15:35 UTC
Ice belts should be moved to the exploration system - their yield increased x10 and m3 reduced based on security status.
Fermi Pear Odocks
Internet Spaceship Gamers
Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll
#265 - 2013-06-07 14:51:28 UTC
I'm happy with the new ice mining mechanics EXCEPT RESETTING THE ICE ANOMS AT DOWNTIME.

Just because you can log one at a certain time everyday shouldn't guarantee you a anom. If its 4 hours make it 4 hours, not 4 hours unless DT happens before that. Otherwise a generally predictable pattern of when when they get mined out and respawn will happen on a daily basis.
Jason Xado
Doomheim
#266 - 2013-06-07 14:57:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Jason Xado
Fermi Pear Odocks wrote:
I'm happy with the new ice mining mechanics EXCEPT RESETTING THE ICE ANOMS AT DOWNTIME.

Just because you can log one at a certain time everyday shouldn't guarantee you a anom. If its 4 hours make it 4 hours, not 4 hours unless DT happens before that. Otherwise a generally predictable pattern of when when they get mined out and respawn will happen on a daily basis.


I don't have a lot of data at the moment, however, so far my personal observation is that the ice does NOT reset at downtime. At least for ice that isn't completely mined out. Maybe it resets for ice that is completely mined. I will try and test this weekend.
Himnos Altar
An Errant Venture
#267 - 2013-06-07 15:00:50 UTC
Charles the Miner wrote:
Ice belts should be moved to the exploration system - their yield increased x10 and m3 reduced based on security status.


Agreed. the higher your sec status, the less ice you get.
MD74
The New Eden Yacht Club
The New Eden Yacht Club.
#268 - 2013-06-07 15:24:45 UTC
CCP; fix this crap.
Dave Stark
#269 - 2013-06-07 15:31:46 UTC
MD74 wrote:
CCP; fix this crap.


it's not broken.
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#270 - 2013-06-07 15:32:49 UTC
Ice nerf tears have been better then expected. Pirate

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
Nathalie LaPorte
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#271 - 2013-06-07 18:49:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Nathalie LaPorte
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

You believe to know enough to say your statements but you don't take in account "details" like i.e. the fact that mining > 0 is not enough. To be worth it, you must also earn enough to recover from the unavoidable losses and also mine more than in hi sec, else you would just stay in hi sec.

But you seem to be content reading a blog and use that as practical knowledge.


I'm refuting an A Priori claim made by you, so I'm not concerned with matters such as "worth it" or "practical knowledge". You claimed it to be A Priori impossible--so that's what I'm disproving. I just disproved it again by actually doing it, in less than 20 minutes a day. I moved a procurer to an empty lowsec system with black frog. I undocked when local was empty. I mined 1 block of ice. Therefore, your claim that ice mining is A priori impossible for some time-limited people has been disproven. You do know what A Priori means, don't you? I have never claimed that low sec ice mining was worth doing--it may well be but I"ve never mined anywhere but highsec or wh-space; for you to bring it up is irrelevant subject-changing.



Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

It's not ironclad mathematical logic at all, you are using a "tecnique" used millenia ago and still described by Schopenhauer... and it's just a rethoric reductio that has zero meaning.


Schopenhauer has been dead for a long long time, he's not "still" describing anything. I agree, mathematics is millenia old, and still true. If you would care to demonstrate how that logic isn't logic, feel free; simply claiming it to be illogical is meaningless. Unless you actually take the time to make some valid points in your next reply, I'll be letting my numerous and valid posts in this thread stand on their merits.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#272 - 2013-06-07 20:44:24 UTC
Nathalie LaPorte wrote:
Therefore, your claim that ice mining is A priori impossible for some time-limited people has been disproven. You do know what A Priori means, don't you? I have never claimed that low sec ice mining was worth doing--it may well be but I"ve never mined anywhere but highsec or wh-space; for you to bring it up is irrelevant subject-changing.


A Tippia talk. You discuss about the sex of the angels, whereas the others actually go beyond some mental exercise to project abstract logic ad infinitum.



Nathalie LaPorte wrote:

Schopenhauer has been dead for a long long time, he's not "still" describing anything. I agree, mathematics is millenia old, and still true. If you would care to demonstrate how that logic isn't logic, feel free; simply claiming it to be illogical is meaningless. Unless you actually take the time to make some valid points in your next reply, I'll be letting my numerous and valid posts in this thread stand on their merits.


Yes please leave your posts stand on their merits.

"Rwanda is a place that one should not go to, living there is not worth it."

"Hey I have survived 1 day in Rwanda, therefore everyone can live in Rwanda and my logic is solid and irrefutable."

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Nathalie LaPorte
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#273 - 2013-06-07 20:52:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Nathalie LaPorte
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:


Yes please leave your posts stand on their merits.

"Rwanda is a place that one should not go to, living there is not worth it."

"Hey I have survived 1 day in Rwanda, therefore everyone can live in Rwanda and my logic is solid and irrefutable."



Did you miss the part where I specifically said I was not talking about whether it was "worth it" ? You yourself used language different than "worth it", you said things were A Priori impossible. If you meant to say something different, then just say that and drop the subject.

If you don't feel like it's worth your time to talk about angels, then don't reply when I talk about angels. how simple is that?? Am I forcing you to reply?
Bronco Platz
Doomheim
#274 - 2013-06-08 18:47:30 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Robert Saint wrote:
So here is an impression of this new ICE deal from someone with a fleet of ICE miners..

Logged in my 12 miners, tried to get my daily 3000 blocks, got about 300 total before it was over (all of 20 minutes).

Stationed up the miners, deleted all the ICE rigs from their Skiffs and set them up for mining ORE in a different quiet little system.

Not going back to that mad house....... Ore is the new ICE, baby!

You have a reformed ICE Multi-Boxer...... now I'm an ORE multi-boxer!!!

It was extremely funny to watch everyone trying to grab a little bit of something that had been so plentiful.

Although, I'm out of the ICE business with my little herd, I think CCP did a great job making it a much better solo or very small fleet experience now.

It's was almost like going on a level 4 mission!





From what I've seen of Soundwave's interviews and appearences, the man does not like static resources.

Don't get too attached to those belts is what I guess I'm saying here.


So Moongoo will be changed, too?

This signature is under NDA. Sorry.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#275 - 2013-06-08 19:13:29 UTC
Bronco Platz wrote:



So Moongoo will be changed, too?


There are several wars happening because moons have changed.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#276 - 2013-06-08 19:17:55 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
much "effort" why dont you just swap to ore? It earns you more at this point anyway.


even with ice minning being worth twice as much?

i heard that in some -1.0 system in 0.0 that have ice annoms "(ozzie said there are only 3systems like this in game) in them that if you minned them 23/7 your alliance could get eq of 600 billion isk a day or something stupid like that...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
T'Laar Bok
#277 - 2013-06-08 20:23:40 UTC
Not worth the time, effort and disappointment to mine ice anymore. My fleet of 8 is no more. Good luck to you who can continue in the job.

Amphetimines are your friend.

http://eveboard.com/pilot/T'Laar_Bok
Felicity Love
Doomheim
#278 - 2013-06-08 20:29:41 UTC
T'Laar Bok wrote:
Not worth the time, effort and disappointment to mine ice anymore. My fleet of 8 is no more. Good luck to you who can continue in the job.


And now you have the perfect opportunity to diversify skills, apply your experience to new ventures, and explore so much more of EVE. It's all good. Blink

"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#279 - 2013-06-08 23:57:13 UTC
Felicity Love wrote:
T'Laar Bok wrote:
Not worth the time, effort and disappointment to mine ice anymore. My fleet of 8 is no more. Good luck to you who can continue in the job.


And now you have the perfect opportunity to diversify skills, apply your experience to new ventures, and explore so much more of EVE. It's all good. Blink


This involves keeping 1-2 accounts to reuse say as PvPer + scout / cyno and let the othe 2-4 lapse. It's going to reward CCP indeed.

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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#280 - 2013-06-09 18:02:47 UTC
Update: multiboxers have adapted and actually doing better than before the expansion.

They keep the timer of when the belt(s) despawned and when a new one repops, they slam 30+ ships and immediately vaporize the belt.

All the other, "regular" players? Sucks to be them.


So far, to recap:

- Multiboxers lost in total mined volume but now trump everyone with their ability to priority grab all fast.

- Botters have just to warp their fleet in, then activate the ore roids AI, job done.

- Casual players don't get a chance to dig anything relevant due to the 2 above.

- Casual gankers can't get anyone, they are due to do the same stupid hopping around and to arrive in time to get someone before the belt's over. Those who moved their stuff with an Orca are expecially boned.

- Many are dumping their characters.

Sub total= Fail.


Those who will thrive:

1) Multi boxers
2) Botters
3) Big alliance gankers / miners.

Grand total= Big Fail.


The same people won again: cheaters and zergs.

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