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Awoxing & Dueling
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Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#81 - 2013-06-06 22:31:54 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
When I claim that my awoxing character was one I recently bought, they take my word for it & proceed to recruit me instead of using eve-search & checking whether this is true or not. That is, if they ever bothered to check my history or the API I gave them in the first place. So you can claim that you have no tools against awoxers all day, but I can prove you wrong.

Go ahead. Pick any unobvious awoxer and explain me how do I identify him.


"Assume everyone is out to get you"- That would be a good start.

Basil Pupkin wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Now of course you can't tell if a brand new character is going to awox. What you can do is setup the mining fleet you just invited them on so it can actually defend itself from that newbie in a thrasher. The ammount of times I've wiped out an entire mining fleet including Orca because no one bothered with attack drones is truly sad, but people awoxing with brand new characters is exceedingly rare since corp recruiters make it so easy to do with a character like this.


Please, get serious. You KNOW you're up against mining fleet, which only has drones to attack you. Unless you're as low as you try to make those recruiters look, you'll equip some obvious anti-drone measures and render their effort futile.
Why use thrasher in the first place? With no CONCORD interference you can pick a beefier ship.


Why use a beefier ship in the first place? You know that 9 times out of 10 that mining fleet will use only mining drones because they're unwilling to acknowledge the fact that someone may just want to blow them up. You can put together a nice newbie trasher for 500k which can do this job, so why spend anymore? You can try to spin this anyway you want but there will always be counters to awoxing, you just refuse to use them.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#82 - 2013-06-06 22:34:25 UTC
Cannibal Kane wrote:
How will people kill that stolen freighter/ship that has just been robbed if they are not allowed to kill a corp mate.

It seems less and less people think before they post. Idiots abound on these forums.

I would suggest CEO do a better job but I guess that means effort now does it not? I am not an awoxer... I had one in corp before and he paid for trying with his ship and pod.

If you want to make awoxers think twice.... make neutral RR suspect when repping corp mates shooting at each other. Right now an awoxer can get free reps from a neutral while shooting corp mates without the worry that his rr will be popped.


Snap that shiny proposed role "Can attack corp members" on the thief and get done with it. Still requires CEO's effort, but doable.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#83 - 2013-06-06 22:37:35 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Snap that shiny proposed role "Can attack corp members" on the thief and get done with it. Still requires CEO's effort, but doable.


being absolutely dumb with your recruiting practices has consequences

stop asking for CCP to remove the consequences of your laziness: if you can't protect your members from being awoxed, whether you put effort into keeping awoxers out or blow up the ones that do make it in, you should probably leave the business of running corps to those who know what they're doing

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#84 - 2013-06-06 22:38:12 UTC
this is no different than the daily MD thread where people ask for a CCP-secured loan/investment system, because it's not like loans and investments are risky in RL or in eve

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#85 - 2013-06-06 22:45:28 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:


"Assume everyone is out to get you"- That would be a good start.


And a page ago I asked to not give me goon-ish answers along "don't recruit alts and traded characters" line.

Mallak Azaria wrote:
Why use a beefier ship in the first place?

Because you can.
Mallak Azaria wrote:
You know that 9 times out of 10 that mining fleet will use only mining drones because they're unwilling to acknowledge the fact that someone may just want to blow them up.

It's been so long since I last time saw a mining drone... probably never saw one since about a month after barges rework. And I'm piloting an Orca, you know... oh wait I remember, one of my pals used them in a Domi on a mission run requiring to mine a small roid.
Mallak Azaria wrote:
You can put together a nice newbie trasher for 500k which can do this job, so why spend anymore? You can try to spin this anyway you want but there will always be counters to awoxing, you just refuse to use them.

The point is, if you put together a nice newbie trasher and failed, that is you failing - you haven't properly fit yourself knowing what your target is quite precisely, which makes you a fool. And since you probably aren't a fool, you will fit a ship which will laugh off any amount of drones, which, I assure you, mining fleets have a plenty of nowadays. So, unless awoxer is worse than miners, there is no way that mining fleet lives, and you know it.
The sum of the day is, there is no defense against awox, no matter how many goons baselessly state otherwise.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#86 - 2013-06-06 22:45:36 UTC
this should be the disclaimer for eve

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cV_q-mVAAA

you are in the game one of these three people. and with out all of them everything would be covered in ****.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#87 - 2013-06-06 22:50:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Mallak Azaria
Basil Pupkin wrote:
The point is, if you put together a nice newbie trasher and failed, that is you failing - you haven't properly fit yourself knowing what your target is quite precisely, which makes you a fool. And since you probably aren't a fool, you will fit a ship which will laugh off any amount of drones, which, I assure you, mining fleets have a plenty of nowadays. So, unless awoxer is worse than miners, there is no way that mining fleet lives, and you know it.
The sum of the day is, there is no defense against awox, no matter how many goons baselessly state otherwise.


Smart recruiting practices & changes to mining fleet doctrines to make them hardier are no defence against awoxers because awoxers are god who never fail~ An awox victim

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#88 - 2013-06-06 22:52:18 UTC
Andski wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Snap that shiny proposed role "Can attack corp members" on the thief and get done with it. Still requires CEO's effort, but doable.


being absolutely dumb with your recruiting practices has consequences

stop asking for CCP to remove the consequences of your laziness: if you can't protect your members from being awoxed, whether you put effort into keeping awoxers out or blow up the ones that do make it in, you should probably leave the business of running corps to those who know what they're doing


I am all ears: Please teach me how to spot... basically anyone who do not have in-corp kills, no active employment history, no mentions on eve-related resources, but has an awox-ready pilot behind the screen. Try to not ignore this again.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
LittleTerror
Stygian Systems
#89 - 2013-06-06 22:53:23 UTC
Removing the ability to shoot at corp mates in highsec won't stop awoxing because of lowsec/nullsec but it would certainly make it less predictable.

Oh and NO.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#90 - 2013-06-06 22:53:51 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Andski wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Snap that shiny proposed role "Can attack corp members" on the thief and get done with it. Still requires CEO's effort, but doable.


being absolutely dumb with your recruiting practices has consequences

stop asking for CCP to remove the consequences of your laziness: if you can't protect your members from being awoxed, whether you put effort into keeping awoxers out or blow up the ones that do make it in, you should probably leave the business of running corps to those who know what they're doing


I am all ears: Please teach me how to spot... basically anyone who do not have in-corp kills, no active employment history, no mentions on eve-related resources, but has an awox-ready pilot behind the screen. Try to not ignore this again.


Nevermind that people recycling brand new characters for awoxing is exceedingly rare.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#91 - 2013-06-06 22:59:26 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Smart recruiting practices & changes to mining fleet doctrines to make them hardier are no defence against awoxers because awoxers are god who never fail[/i]~ An awox victim


There is no way to fail against a known target, because you can calculate everything and remove any chance to fail, or not attempt anything if fail chance remains.

Totally unrelated to mining fleets though, because mining fleets are just too vulnerable by design, with proper fit you can basically alpha strike anything below procurer, so even having a logi around won't make a difference.

So, yes, awoxer has every bit of intel he needs to succeed, and if he failed, he only has himself to blame.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#92 - 2013-06-06 23:01:29 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Nevermind that people recycling brand new characters for awoxing is exceedingly rare.

So they deserve a free awox every time they do, right?

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#93 - 2013-06-06 23:09:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Mallak Azaria
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Smart recruiting practices & changes to mining fleet doctrines to make them hardier are no defence against awoxers because awoxers are god who never fail[/i]~ An awox victim


There is no way to fail against a known target, because you can calculate everything and remove any chance to fail, or not attempt anything if fail chance remains.


I don't know about others, but I don't actually "know" my targets beforehand. I just apply to corps & take what I get so there is always a chance of failure.

Basil Pupkin wrote:
Totally unrelated to mining fleets though, because mining fleets are just too vulnerable by design, with proper fit you can basically alpha strike anything below procurer, so even having a logi around won't make a difference.


Mining fleets are vulnerable because the players make them vulnerable. Everyone has the same tools available to them, some of us use them & succeed, a lot of people don't use them & demand CCP give them more tools instead.

Basil Pupkin wrote:
So, yes, awoxer has every bit of intel he needs to succeed, and if he failed, he only has himself to blame.


Nevermind the fact that our potential victims make it so we don't have to bother.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#94 - 2013-06-06 23:15:10 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:
I am all ears: Please teach me how to spot... basically anyone who do not have in-corp kills, no active employment history, no mentions on eve-related resources, but has an awox-ready pilot behind the screen. Try to not ignore this again.


I know several ways. I won't tell you a single one of them. If you can't think of ways to weed out corp killers then you have no business being a CEO or a Recruiter for a corp in Eve. Eve doesn't need 10k little 5 man corps in Retreivers for their "mining op." A Corporation should be a bunch of pilots, maybe some new, but at this point in Eve, some veterans too. And the CEO and any Recruiters need to be the wisest of the lot of them.

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."
Psychotic Monk
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#95 - 2013-06-06 23:15:40 UTC
If you think there's nothing you can do to stop an awoxer, then you're simply not thinking hard enough. I have been shut entirely down by relatively simple precautions both before and during an awox and I essentially have no counter to the tactic in question except to rely on the ignorance of my victims to not use it.

Belligerent Undesirables Selling Griefer Immunity
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#96 - 2013-06-06 23:17:15 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Nevermind that people recycling brand new characters for awoxing is exceedingly rare.

So they deserve a free awox every time they do, right?


So corps deserve to have a mechanic taken away that is used for a lot of good purposes so you can feel safe from a 10-hour old new character in a trasher? I mean if you're really scared of that then the issue isn't awoxing at all. Maybe new players need to be nerfed? If you talk with a brand new character for awhile, it's easy to figure out if it's a true newbie or a more experienced player pretending to be new.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#97 - 2013-06-06 23:18:04 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Smart recruiting practices & changes to mining fleet doctrines to make them hardier are no defence against awoxers because awoxers are god who never fail[/i]~ An awox victim


There is no way to fail against a known target, because you can calculate everything and remove any chance to fail, or not attempt anything if fail chance remains.


I don't know about others, but I don't actually "know" my targets beforehand. I just apply to corps & take what I get so there is always a chance of failure.

Basil Pupkin wrote:
Totally unrelated to mining fleets though, because mining fleets are just too vulnerable by design, with proper fit you can basically alpha strike anything below procurer, so even having a logi around won't make a difference.


Mining fleets are vulnerable because the players make them vulnerable. Everyone has the same tools available to them, some of us use them & succeed, a lot of people don't use them & demand CCP give them more tools instead.

Basil Pupkin wrote:
So, yes, awoxer has every bit of intel he needs to succeed, and if he failed, he only has himself to blame.


Nevermind the fact that our potential victims make it so we don't have to bother.


Ignore point, ignore point, ignore point.

1) You KNOW your targets beforehand by warping to them already inside the corp and checking them out. No chance of failure.
2) Mining fleets are vulnerable because you can't mine in something less vulnerable. Let us not get into that discussion again, let's just establish a long-proven point that there is no way to tank a retriever enough to protect even against a suicide ganker, not even mentioning a well-prepared awoxer.
3) I request again - what possible bother can make victims safe from unobvious awox? I know it's hard to acknowledge you're wrong while being a goon, but still, can you answer this one without ignoring it for the 4th time?

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#98 - 2013-06-06 23:20:00 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
So corps deserve to have a mechanic taken away that is used for a lot of good purposes so you can feel safe from a 10-hour old new character in a trasher? I mean if you're really scared of that then the issue isn't awoxing at all. Maybe new players need to be nerfed? If you talk with a brand new character for awhile, it's easy to figure out if it's a true newbie or a more experienced player pretending to be new.


Wait, pretending to be a newbie is hard now? What's next on the goon bs bulleting, suicide ganks being hard?

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#99 - 2013-06-06 23:21:44 UTC
Psychotic Monk wrote:
If you think there's nothing you can do to stop an awoxer, then you're simply not thinking hard enough. I have been shut entirely down by relatively simple precautions both before and during an awox and I essentially have no counter to the tactic in question except to rely on the ignorance of my victims to not use it.


I guess THAT really makes you worse than miners. Failing in a situation with no way to fail and blaming other people for it? Really?

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#100 - 2013-06-06 23:33:58 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:
I request again - what possible bother can make victims safe from unobvious awox? I know it's hard to acknowledge you're wrong while being a goon, but still, can you answer this one without ignoring it for the 4th time?


I'm not a goon, not an awoxer, but will weigh in:

A complete surprise attack on "fragile" vessels will result in them dying. However, your blingier vessels (Like an Orca, or a freighter) can easily have the tank and defenses to survive longer than 10 seconds.

A fleet that is prepared can easily release a zerg of EC drones, an orca that's prepared can have a BB or griffin in its bay, with extra jammers in the hangar to jam out the opponent. Ships that haven't returned fire can also be 'depsoited' into the Orca's Ship bay to save them.

These aren't fool proof, and you may take some losses, but dealing with losses is a major part of this game! There are options, and the largest and most effective option is to vet the person joining your corp!